NGD ASAT Classic 1st New G&L With Happiness and Some Sadness

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Well, first post should be my best post, not in my hands yet but it's at the dealer awaiting shipment!

Empress wood, 6.4 lbs!
Vintage V neck

I'm incredibly excited! But, I am a bit miffed I lamented that 9.5" wasn't an option with my emails to the dealer in early June. So I said I'll just go with 7.5" and pay a couple hundred bucks to have the frets plek'd down to a 9.5" later on. Now, the guitar is there and I check the website to see 9.5" is an option. I've been waiting for this for years and it's one of the reasons I put off ordering a G&L, I finally compromise only to find I was a few weeks too early plus could have saved 200 bucks! Argh.

Still though, ain't she a beaut?

sam · Post by **sam** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:48 pm

Welcome and congrats on yer new beauty and posting on the ol' GLDP.

love the color with maple neck, black guard an only 6.4lbs. Look forward to more pics and tone report.

Don't forget to get her in the registry and come round often.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:25 pm

sam wrote:Welcome and congrats on yer new beauty and posting on the ol' GLDP. love the color with maple neck, black guard an only 6.4lbs. Look forward to more pics and tone report.

Don't forget to get her in the registry and come round often.

Will do! ....Once I get her in my hands. Yeah, I saw some pics of the "spanish copper metallic" without the vintage tint neck and just thought it would look even more copper-esque with the darker neck + 1ply black guard. I think I was right but will be a better judge when I get to see it with my own eyes.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:11 pm

Nice choice, i have one in an identical colour scheme.

The difference in radius is pretty insignificant and you'll get used to it pretty quick.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:49 pm

I love the Impress wood , it should be a option on every G&L including Rampage and Super Hawk , I bet my next new G&L will have Impress wood

...... sweet guitar BTW !!

astutzmann · Post by **astutzmann** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:47 am

ordered this new in 2008, the colour grows on me more and more everyday. This is the guitar I play the most, 7.5 radius neck.

Changed the pick guard from black, several times and finalized with the brown tortoise shell.

Enjoy, fantastic guitar!

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:09 pm

astutzmann wrote:ordered this new in 2008, the colour grows on me more and more everyday. This is the guitar I play the most, 7.5 radius neck.

Changed the pick guard from black, several times and finalized with the brown tortoise shell.

Enjoy, fantastic guitar!

Looks fantastic, I REALLY dig the Heritages in your avatar too. Maybe a couple years down the road I can drop a couple g's on an H535, that would really bring the pack together!

astutzmann · Post by **astutzmann** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:02 pm

thx, that 535 is going no where, but I might be interested in selling the 150.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:57 pm

astutzmann wrote:thx, that 535 is going no where, but I might be interested in selling the 150.

Don't!

I had an 89' 150 that I bought used for $500 a little over 10 years ago and then got $650 for her, wasn't worth it, such a fantastic guitar.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:02 pm

Great guitar. I also like Empress because of it's weight. I would be surprised if they offered it as an option. -- Darwin

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:16 pm

Got her today, beautiful guitar overall..sounds great, great weight. I was a little taken aback a the amount of picking scratches on the surface of the pickguard cover (with my technique my pick never really touches the guitar surface) but that's fine. Then, I saw this:

There's a definite indent there, can feel it with my fingers thought it doesn't show up as well in the photos as in person

This would not make it through as a finished product at the shop where I apprentice, kind of a bummer but I'm not sure what I want to do. I'm normally not picky about the finish but this is the first guitar I've bought brand new in a decade as I usually look for the best deal I can get on gear, it's a good chunk of money for me.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:44 am

This is unusual, G&L finishes are generally first rate.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:07 am

Beautiful guitar but the indentation would be a deal breaker for me. It almost looks like the indentation was there before the paint was applied. -- Darwin

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:32 am

darwinohm wrote:Beautiful guitar but the indentation would be a deal breaker for me. It almost looks like the indentation was there before the paint was applied. -- Darwin

Yeah, I've done a few finishes during an apprenticeship and had a bad mix lead to some pinpoint type indents, but nothing quite this big. Maybe moisture in the body leaking into the mix, a bad mix, or yeah..it was bumped before final finishing. It's definitely not small though, in terms of "blemishes." I bought a factory 2nd Casino once for a little leak in the burst that no one would notice unless pointed out, and that guitar was almost half the price!

Dealer said I can do a warranty on it but I don't want to wait any longer to be honest, I already waited a month and half

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:48 am

This pic gives it better perspective/light in terms of how it looks when viewing the guitar as a whole.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:00 am

So, I let the dealer know that if I have to wait I'd rather just return it and they said they can't take a return on a custom order guitar.

Is this happening?

homesick_et · Post by **homesick_et** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:58 am

@darwin
I thought the same thing when I saw the post last night. From the pictures (obviously its hard to tell without having the guitar in front of you), it does almost look like the dent was there before the finish was applied.

@deytookerjaabs
If this were the case, wouldn't the cost fall on the factory? Or perhaps, the dealer is meant to do a proper inspection before getting it to the customer? Their failure to do that might put the cost on them. Either way, it seems unacceptable that they wouldn't at least contact the factory to see what the options are. The more I think about it, the more it seems like the dealer would be responsible for not doing a proper inspection upon delivery. I understand dealers are meant to do the final setup when guitars arrive, this should have been caught.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:15 pm

If it really bothers you return it and wait, see if you can get a replacement with the 9.5" fretboard even...

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:51 pm

Sorry to hear about the disappointing NGD!

darwinohm wrote:It almost looks like the indentation was there before the paint was applied. -- Darwin

deytookerjaabs wrote: Maybe moisture in the body leaking into the mix, a bad mix, or yeah..it was bumped before final finishing.

homesick_et wrote:@darwin
I thought the same thing when I saw the post last night. From the pictures (obviously its hard to tell without having the guitar in front of you), it does almost look like the dent was there before the finish was applied.

I know that Empress gets a lot of buzz around here, and is also being marketed as some sort of magic tone wood by at least one large manufacturer. It's very lightweight, but it also extremely soft wood. We're talking one tiny step up from balsa in terms of durability. I've seen Fenders built from Empress hanging on the wall at my local Guitar Center with literally holes punched through the finish where the wood dented underneath.

On the plus side, it is very lightweight. It also has a grain pattern that's suitable for transparent finishes and 'bursts, unlike balsa, poplar or white pine. It's just not likely to hold up under typical use in most instances. To each his own, but give me a body that is still going to be in reasonable shape after three decades of use, like most of the G&Ls I've owned. They have some dings after 30 years (on average), but none of them have big indentations.

Good luck with getting this taken care of. Personally, I would go with the warranty repair. It might not be convenient, but you've already paid for it in the cost of the guitar. I would also seriously consider asking for a different body wood in the process. It would weigh a pound or two more, but you won't have the same risk of a slight bump turning into a major disaster...

Ken

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:45 pm

Everything was taken care of through the warranty, new build yet to come and I'll send the current back when it comes in! I'm starting to see other builders use Empress too, so I hope it wasn't a wood issue but if it was I wonder if there's any tricks to curing/seasoning/coating that would add durability. I'd hate to have it not be an option.

I mean, having a lighter tone wood option, on top of the addition of the 9.5" as well as different nut widths should definitely be advertised a bit more. It's certainly appealing to those who thought some guitars leaned on the heavy side, or just wanted the traditional modern radius for 25.5" Leo Fender style guitars.

Post by **Craig** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:09 pm

deytookerjaabs wrote:Everything was taken care of through the warranty, new build yet to come and I'll send the current back when it comes in! I'm starting to see other builders use Empress too, so I hope it wasn't a wood issue but if it was I wonder if there's any tricks to curing/seasoning/coating that would add durability. I'd hate to have it not be an option.

I mean, having a lighter tone wood option, on top of the addition of the 9.5" as well as different nut widths should definitely be advertised a bit more. It's certainly appealing to those who thought some guitars leaned on the heavy side, or just wanted the traditional modern radius for 25.5" Leo Fender style guitars.

Dave has mentioned that it is difficult to get a good supply of Premium Empress wood, so that is why it is not currently an option.

Regarding the new neck options: it takes time to get the dealers up to speed on the new options including the radius options. They have really put some thought into
these new neck options, with wider nut widths and standard string spacing. One of the reasons for having the Price List information in the G&L Knowledgebase, is so
that members and guests can read about this information and become more informed about all the options.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:24 pm

Craig wrote:
Dave has mentioned that it is difficult to get a good supply of Premium Empress wood, so that is why it is not currently an option.

Regarding the new neck options: it takes time to get the dealers up to speed on the new options including the radius options. They have really put some thought into
these new neck options, with wider nut widths and standard string spacing. One of the reasons for having the Price List information in the G&L Knowledgebase, is so
that members and guests can read about this information and become more informed about all the options.

The neck options threw me off because a friend asked be what the contour specs of the neck order were, beyond "V" I didn't remember the actual numbers so I went to the website, clicked on the options link and everything had changed! Beyond that, I would have never known. I then posted about it on a couple guitar sites so folks would know.

JagInTheBag · Post by **JagInTheBag** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:01 pm

Looks like some grain reading through the top finish. This should have been filled before it was primed for the color coat.

As for the new neck options, I love the fact that they have unbolted fret board radius from neck contour, so much more customization with just one more "button" to push on the CNC machine. I hope the dealer body does their job to educate their client base about this new flexibility in ordering.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:48 pm

JagInTheBag wrote:Looks like some grain reading through the top finish. This should have been filled before it was primed for the color coat.

As for the new neck options, I love the fact that they have unbolted fret board radius from neck contour, so much more customization with just one more "button" to push on the CNC machine. I hope the dealer body does their job to educate their client base about this new flexibility in ordering.

I thought the contour was still done by hand? Meh, either way.. All the current options really make it more fun for the consumer, I think the only thing missing to cover all the basics for a neck would be a true medium wire so you'd get 3 Radii, 3 Wire sizes, 3 nut widths, and a bunch of contours.

art · Post by **art** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:16 pm

deytookerjaabs wrote: I thought the contour was still done by hand? Meh, either way.. All the current options really make it more fun for the consumer, I think the only thing missing to cover all the basics for a neck would be a true medium wire so you'd get 3 Radii, 3 Wire sizes, 3 nut widths, and a bunch of contours.

This is definitely a nice development. I wonder why there's no compound radius option (not that I have any experience with or desire for compound radius fretboards).

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:28 pm

Still no word on the timetable for the replacement guitar. So, I'm getting attached!! The neck on this sucker came beefy, very "blackguard" esque feel to it with the thickness and satin finish which feels almost like bare wood..the way it should be. Like I said in another thread too, since I got the strings I dig on it this neck has been the most stable I've ever dealt with! A total luxury.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:50 pm

So, I figured I'd chime in with some added info I decided not to include a while back while waiting for the replacement. After initially discussing the other issues my rep assured me the new guitar would be on spec all around when he issued the RMA. So, I emailed the folks at 10 weeks after the RMA was issued and no reply..then two weeks later I sent another email and did get a reply, initial build quote was 4-6 weeks. The fella said "sorry for the wait let me check with the factory" then a couple hours later "send in your guitar and we'll send the replacement." That just seems odd, no contact for 12 weeks then apparently it's just waiting around? Well, the guitar arrived in Fullerton Friday and I'm waiting to see when they ship the new one out. But, just for fun, here were the other issues with the guitar:

I ordered the #2a "vintage v" and thought it was pretty darn fat. The tolerance is .960 +/- .015 so .975 max. Welp, she's over an inch and over the max tolerance by a good bit. I was hoping for a skinnier neck than my boatneck strat more or less to ease my tendonitis issues but no luck here, the stoutness kind of kept me from playing it in general plus doctors orders no playing for one month in August

It'd be cool if G&L had posted the details of the contour too because the "vintage v" was a V from the headstock to the 4th fret then a thick C/D for the rest of the neck. It goes both ways with vintage Leo guitars so it's hard to know without a full description of the contour.

Another thing that came up..the truss nut is so low in the slot (well off center) that the allen wrench makes contact with the cavity when adjusting it. If the neck/nut moved any more I'd have had to chisel out the cavity as it was already difficult to get the wrench in. It's hard to see in the photo but above the nut there was a few millimeters of room while the base of the allen slot was level with the base of the cavity.

Also, posted in another thread, the bevel for the fret ends was shallow..squier affinity shallow and took off a good chunk of playing surface, you can probably see that in the photos from before hand.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BmEgteWg9Q[/video]

Lastly, buzzing badly on the open B inside (less so on high E) the nut with stock strings/setup. G&L is one thing, but the fellas at MSL with their own "experts" also supposedly do their own setup for better or worse. I guess that slipped by too.

All in all, here it is, a few days near November and still no guitar after initial order late May and RMA in mid July so I'm kind of bitter at this point regardless of the final outcome. It was, once again, a huge purchase for me.

yz250f49 · Post by **yz250f49** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Sorry to hear of all these issues you are having with this. It would drive me nuts.

Even more troubling is how the factory could let something like that go out the door....

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:02 pm

yz250f49 wrote:Sorry to hear of all these issues you are having with this. It would drive me nuts.

Even more troubling is how the factory could let something like that go out the door....

Thanks! Yeah, there were some real zingers on that guitar. Sent me the tracking/label info for the replacement yesterday morning and that according to fedex it still isn't in their possession. Keeping my fingers crossed.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:47 pm

Got the new one in the mail the other evening, every issue was fixed. But, when the sun came up the next day I was pickin' a bit and looked at the frets and thought "huh?" About 1/2 the frets are seated tight at the ends with unseated gaps of varying widths in the middle. Something that I don't see too often and almost never on a new guitar in any price range. Making sure the base of the frets are tight to the board in the middle and ends is basically fretting 101

I sent an email over to MSL and am waiting to see if I get a response on Monday.

NickHorne · Post by **NickHorne** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:38 pm

Having had manufacturing / QC issues with fairly recent G&Ls, and some pretty lackadaisical communications from the factory regarding them (although I don't intend to go into the details of that here, and I still have and use all of my G&Ls and would not remotely consider buying Fenders instead) I've been staying quiet whilst watching this sorry tale, and a couple of other similar ones, with increasing anger.
McLaren really has to knock some heads together until they manage to get properly consistent quality happening, or they'll be closing the doors forever. The management will be living off Tributes and the USA shop guys will be down the beach having a beer and going broke. It's maddening, and sad. G&L have great designs, great pickups, great wood, great improvements over Fenders, and still the ability to make fantastic, great guitars, but also apparently some great problems. It really isn't going to last if they carry on like this. I imagine George Fullerton would be very sad at this state of things.
Of course, I'm hoping you get your purchase sorted thoroughly until you have a proper top-quality G&L in your hands; that will be a really great guitar. Hugely musical, playable, enjoyable and great value.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:49 pm

This is sad, especially on a replacement guitar that you have been waiting on for 4 months. This is totally unacceptable in my opinion. I would be bummed to say the least, especially on a replacement or newly repaired guitar. -- Darwin

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:18 pm

NickHorne wrote:Having had manufacturing / QC issues with fairly recent G&Ls, and some pretty lackadaisical communications from the factory regarding them (although I don't intend to go into the details of that here, and I still have and use all of my G&Ls and would not remotely consider buying Fenders instead) I've been staying quiet whilst watching this sorry tale, and a couple of other similar ones, with increasing anger.
McLaren really has to knock some heads together until they manage to get properly consistent quality happening, or they'll be closing the doors forever. The management will be living off Tributes and the USA shop guys will be down the beach having a beer and going broke. It's maddening, and sad. G&L have great designs, great pickups, great wood, great improvements over Fenders, and still the ability to make fantastic, great guitars, but also apparently some great problems. It really isn't going to last if they carry on like this. I imagine George Fullerton would be very sad at this state of things.
Of course, I'm hoping you get your purchase sorted thoroughly until you have a proper top-quality G&L in your hands; that will be a really great guitar. Hugely musical, playable, enjoyable and great value.

I pretty much agree with what you've said, especially regarding design and other aspects of G&L in general. The necks are incredibly stable, the wood is nice and dry, the vintage style pickups are top notch and their proprietary pickups are fantastic too, plus bridges and use of heavy duty tuning machines. That sets them apart, not to say it's necessary but it's good to stand out. My one beef would that the neck contours and shape in general are for some and not for others. They could be more ergonomic at times.

The fret seating thing is sad, it's not necessarily something an untrained eye would notice but if you flip the guitar horizontally and look at the board it's there. If it was one or two with crazy small gaps it'd be a "whatever" type of thing but almost 1/2 the board has funky seating. That's the stuff you just get right though whether the guitar is built in Fullerton or in Korea or wherever, no indents under the finish, truss nut accessible, if you advertise tolerances you follow them, properly cut nut regardless of style and frets need to be seated tight to the board no matter what. These things go hand in hand with neck alignment, string spacing, and functioning hardware from an Epiphone to a Custom Shop guitar.

As for sticking with G&L, I might need a hiatus for now, lol. In high school I took lessons at a vintage dealer and he had two guitars I really wanted..The one I bought was a Black 73' Tele Deluxe for $700 (he let me make payments, only took 6 months!), it was up against a G&L Broadcaster that was all Black with the Black bridge etc but the owner wanted $150 more for it citing that the Broadcaster was going to dramatically increase in value sooner than any 70's Fender. I didn't want to wait two more months to pay off the Broadcaster. Well, later on I sold the deluxe and I still drool over those Broadcasters from time to time. But, nonetheless, my appreciation of G&L goes way back.

glvourot · Post by **glvourot** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:28 pm

I don't blame you for wanting a hiatus at this point. To have this issue with a replacement guitar is beyond comprehension . I would steer clear of MSL . It's one thing that the factory let the guitar out like this, MSL should have sent it back on your behalf and refunded your money. You have been beyond patient. Maybe you will find a nice used one somewhere .

JimmyJames · Post by **JimmyJames** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:12 am

I am shocked. This frets should have never made it out the door. It should have never made it to the plea machine. I have ordered several G&L,s brand new in my lifetime. I have never had a problem with one at all.

What is MSL? I want to be sure so I don't order a guitar from them lol

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:33 pm

JimmyJames wrote:I am shocked. This frets should have never made it out the door. It should have never made it to the plea machine. I have ordered several G&L,s brand new in my lifetime. I have never had a problem with one at all.

What is MSL? I want to be sure so I don't order a guitar from them lol

Music Store Live, fairly big G&L dealer from what I can tell. After the mixup about the return policy I was able to get in touch with Fullerton directly so the replacement is straight from the factory. I emailed MSL and they clarified the "mixup," now I'm waiting to get their response about the return.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:05 am

Here's yet another update if anyone is interested.

Emailed MSL Monday with multiple detailed pics of the unseated frets and I asked for a full refund being that it's the second time the product was delivered without meeting a fundamental level of basic quality construction you'd expect from a $200 instrument off the wall at guitar center. Then, I emailed them again Tuesday to see if the rep got my email. Then, I called and they said he's in the warehouse but he's in the office for the first half of the day. It's Thursday and still...no reply. Add to that, he berated my comment about the guitar taking 16 weeks to REbuild seeing as how "music man takes a year, PRS takes 6 months, Fender custom shop has a waiting list" so therefore I'm lucky in the first place. Okay.... Guess I'm wrong. Either way, they go above and beyond to avoid honoring their stated return policy and honoring a full return on a fundamentally flawed instrument. Oh well, lucky me.

So, I emailed the G&L rep and he's tried to "make things right." In the process he asked "can you fit a slip of paper under the frets" so I emailed him pics of the frets with a piece of paper slipped under them. He also stated that he's not sure that would be checked in the inspection but I said that's the fret guys job in the first place. He also name dropped the term "magnifying glass" mid conversation. Great. Then, they offered to expedite the process of building a new neck with different specs + he'll "throw in" the quatersawn option which is cool. I do appreciate that, although these necks are so stable I'm not sure if quartersawn can make it any more stable

He asked me if I was happy with the "feel" + "setup" + "neck" etc and I was straight with him: I'm not complaining about any of that, if I don't like the guitar but it's built properly that's MY PROBLEM, not G&L's. Then, I replied to him about how upset I am with Music Store Live to which he replied that he used to work in a store with "no returns" on custom orders and "I don’t want to come off bad mouthing MSL or singing their praise here but what did they do wrong?" Really? I explained to him their return policy and how they won't honor it.

So, here I am with the option of getting the guitar RIGHT the third time around with a slightly different/upgraded neck. This time around I'd go with the deep V + vintage frets. He said "I’m offering you the cow and the barn to try and do right by you." But, I feel like I've been getting jacked around harder than I've ever been with any store or company..ever. And, I never go through this stuff, I'm a fairly laid back non-confrontational type of fella. I just wanted it right the first time and patiently waited for the replacement.

That's where I stand, G&L will hook me up on a different quartersawn neck and MSL will continue to ignore how they've done business with me + G&L can pat themselves on the back for "making it right" the third time around.

Thanks. On a side note: I'm posting all this in the hopes that none of you folks will be forced to do business this way.

NickHorne · Post by **NickHorne** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:24 pm

I'm not at all surprised by anything you wrote.
The QC, the ethic, the attitude, the lot.
They really must get this together; in this instance for you, and in general for their own survival.

A good G&L is a really great instrument. I am keenly hoping you are going to get yours.
I won't write about this again until you tell us how it turns out for you, just in case I set anyone's attitude off.....

P.S.(edit) Quartersawn is nice! I feel the whole instrument responds better, tone is more positive.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:37 pm

NickHorne wrote:I'm not at all surprised by anything you wrote.
The QC, the ethic, the attitude, the lot.
They really must get this together; in this instance for you, and in general for their own survival.

A good G&L is a really great instrument. I am keenly hoping you are going to get yours.
I won't write about this again until you tell us how it turns out for you, just in case I set anyone's attitude off.....

P.S.(edit) Quartersawn is nice! I feel the whole instrument responds better, tone is more positive.

Yeah, my warmoth (currently in need of a refret from a little fall) is quartersawn but it's vintage spec. These G&L necks, so far in my experience, don't move. I think it's the fact that even the one piece are actually a seamed two piece plus the truss rod design.

This might sound crazy, but I don't want to look at this guitar anymore, make sense? I don't want it fixed a THIRD time with a little upgrade, that's just asking to be disappointed in the long run. So, I told the rep something he probably can't to do: build a new & different guitar for me, or I'll have to go through the motions with MSL in forcing them to provide a refund which won't be fun.

Someone once said playing/owning different guitars is like dating, well if it is, this chick is a broken record.

Rep said all he could do is build a new neck with the upgrade so now I'm up against MSL.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:19 pm

WOW! A bad experience for sure. 3 bad guitars, still no escalation in getting your situation resolved. Not good.

MSL's ads make them sound like the most thorough dealer around as far as checking out the guitar before shipment, etc. Guess it's all BS. Hopefully, you will get a full refund from them. If not:

Have you considered publishing your experiences on their site on Facebook?

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:43 pm

Lefty wrote:WOW! A bad experience for sure. 3 bad guitars, still no escalation in getting your situation resolved. Not good.

MSL's ads make them sound like the most thorough dealer around as far as checking out the guitar before shipment, etc. Guess it's all BS. Hopefully, you will get a full refund from them. If not:

Have you considered publishing your experiences on their site on Facebook?

Probably won't do much good, I'm already talking with a manager/rep at G&L and even he said there's nothing he can do about my experience with music store live. He offered to overnight the guitar back + forth the guitar then take up to 7 days for an upgraded quartersawn neck + vintage wire + 9.5" radius, didn't know the small wire and normal radius was an upcharge, lol. I kind of wish they offered at least the 9.5" to me in July but doesn't matter much if they can't seat the frets. I guess I'm a bad guy for thinking the offer won't nullify what has been such a combative and negative experience all the way around. When I vented to the rep about the whole thing and that I wanted a new build or a refund he replied "so are you agreeing to our offer?"

They're all business over there.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Things are getting better and worse.

The Good: G&L. They're now trying to go the extra mile to make sure I'm satisfied with anything from a new build to a return.

The Bad: Well, now I don't know what to do!

The Ugly: Music Store Live, before G&L made my day after having to climb the ladder the MSL rep AGAIN (just a few days after receiving the new guitar + G&L acknowledging it's flaws) finally replied to me stating: "I can't take this guitar back for a refund" even though they hold the funds for the guitar and I'm WELL within my right, legally speaking, to be entitled to a full refund.

MSL basically makes up their own return policy as they go. This is AFTER telling me in July "No returns on custom orders" 100% contrary to the policy listed on their website for "custom orders."

Nubs · Post by **Nubs** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:48 pm

Just wanted to expand a bit on the whole MSL experience. That's where I ordered my ASAT Alnico from. Before I ordered, they claimed to have the fastest turnaround for custom builds (4-6 weeks). Shortly after I placed my order, it then turned into 8 weeks. Then it was 10 weeks. Finally at the 11th week after multiple inquiries as to where my guitar was with no straight answer, I threatened to demand a full refund including my deposit. Then of course, I receive emails from MSL and a G&L rep stating there was a problem with the neck and they needed to rebuild it which is what caused the delay. My guitar was then promptly shipped to MSL and then to me.

I became increasingly frustrated with them because I couldn't get a straight answer as to where my guitar was & what was taking so long. Had I known there was a neck related issue from the get, I would have been much more understanding. That and what seemed to be a bait-and-switch tactic on their end by promising quick turnaround times & then mysteriously stretching them out after they got my money was enough to turn me off from future purchases from them.

And the final blow was that I never received any type of follow up from them after I received my guitar. No "Hey just wanted to see how everything is and how the new guitar is", or "Wanted to make sure you're happy with your experience with us". Nothing at all.

If/when I'm ready to order another custom G&L, it DEFINITELY won't be with them. Blow off answers when I ask for updates and being reactive towards customers doesn't cut it for me. But I learned that sometimes you gotta threaten to hit people where it hurts the most to get them to move...in their wallets.

art · Post by **art** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:58 pm

Nubs wrote:Just wanted to expand a bit on the whole MSL experience. That's where I ordered my ASAT Alnico from. Before I ordered, they claimed to have the fastest turnaround for custom builds (4-6 weeks). Shortly after I placed my order, it then turned into 8 weeks. Then it was 10 weeks. Finally at the 11th week after multiple inquiries as to where my guitar was with no straight answer, I threatened to demand a full refund including my deposit. Then of course, I receive emails from MSL and a G&L rep stating there was a problem with the neck and they needed to rebuild it which is what caused the delay. My guitar was then promptly shipped to MSL and then to me.

Interesting, I had the exact same experience with MSL, "we usually get these in four to six weeks". After 12 weeks and several inquiries about why it was taking so long, they told me that the factory had lost or misplaced my guitar after having completed it. Fortunately, there were no problems with the build.

deytookerjaabs · Post by **deytookerjaabs** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:17 am

Thing is, I knew their custom order return policy, or at least what they claimed it to be before placing my order and it made me "feel" comfortable just in case something goes wrong. I was well within my bounds in terms of the time limit and every other factor I can conceive of to get a refund sans deposit NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Then, the second go round I had acknowledgement the product was flawed and, in both cases, because the product wasn't delivered as promised I was entitled to a full refund.

Once I got to the top of G&L the President went out of his way to get in touch with me and thanked me for bringing all this to his attention. He held a factory floor meeting regarding the product QC, a meeting with his reps regarding service, and offered to build me something dreamy. That makes G&L a great company in my book.

I decided that, out of principle, Music Store Live has operated in such an unethical and probably illegal manner that I went with the refund in hopes that they don't see a dime from me once the refund is issued.

The next couple times I log into various guitar forums around the net my first item of agenda will be to start a thread about my dealings with Music Store Live so others know to beware. I'm glad you fellas have chimed in too, I don't feel like I'm the only one who gets the cold shoulder, to say the least.

In the future, I'll order a G&L from a local dealer, which I would have done in the first place but I'm lazy and they're all way out in the suburbs

Nubs · Post by **Nubs** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:48 pm

It sucks that companies feel the need to operate this way. I still believe in G&L 100%, but it's a shame that some distributors act so shady. Some people might misconstrue that to mean the manufacturers such as G&L are that way too.

It sucks to know so many people have had problems with MSL. Had I known this from the get-go, I definitely would've went elsewhere to order one as I'm sure you guys would have too. Live & learn and move on I suppose. I'll be right behind you jaabs when you start threads about MSL to put in my $.02.