Truss rod question/set up specs for Jerry Cantrell Rampage

[HowlinWolf]

Hi there, been checking out this forum for info and fun from time to time, but this is my first post.

So I bought a used Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage a couple months back, and since then I've tried learning how to do guitar setups myself. Alot of my initial work in trying to get this guitar set up right was spent on the Kahler 2320 tremolo. But my current issue is with the truss rod's responsiveness. Long story short, the neck seems not much affected by all the turns of the truss rod I've been making to give it relief, and I must have made about 8-10 full circle 360 degree turns of the wrench in total in the past 2 days, little turns at a time of course. Well the first day when I stopped turning to give the neck time to respond there was a relief of about .004. The next day it was the same so I turned the rod a bit more, and today the relief is still the same so I did a few more turns. This neck has a radius of 13.75 inches so I'm thinking relief of about .008 to 0.010 is desirable. But it just won't let the tension of the strings (I'm using gauge 9s) give it relief. So my question is why? Is it because the strings are light gauge, is it because the neck is hard rock maple which coupled with the ebony fretboard is sturdy as hell and won't budge to the string tension? Do I have to manually push the fretboard upwards to get the relief? Is there a problem with the truss rod or am I doing something wrong?

And regarding setups, I'd love to have the factory setup specs of this guitar, the USA Jerry Cantrell Rampage. I see Craig has specs of a few others on here, but can't find info on this. So should I try emailing G&L myself or could anyone help me out? Thanks a bunch.

[darwinohm]

Welcome HW. I am assuming that you are turning the nut counterclockwise. If you are not, you have problems. If you are turning it counter clockwise and it is at .004, I would still consider it okay. That many turns should have almost backed the nut completely off the rod with no tension on the neck. The neck has no backbow and is probably at the natural state of the neck. I would now tighten the nut until you feel some resistance from the neck and see if your relief becomes less than .004. That would at least tell you that the truss rod is working. One solution for this is to have the neck steamed, quite inexpensive (it cost me $20) and many have had good results doing this. Heavier strings will put more pressure on the neck but I don't see that as the perfect solution. You are right in what you perceive the as the ideal setting.-- Darwin

[HowlinWolf]

Hi Darwin, thank you for the reply and your posts on other topics relating to this guitar have been helpful too... Yes I was turning 'lefty loosie' i.e counter clockwise to get relief on the neck. I think I started with no relief whatsoever, in any case to be 100% sure I went ahead and tightened the rod to see if it works and yes it does, I got the string and 8th fret to touch. But just like I had turned the rod many times counter clockwise to try to get relief, I had to turn it the other way quite a few times to get rid of it. I've always read that just a bit of a turn of the rod would 'go a long way' but this doesn't seem to be the case with this guitar. So right now I'm loosening the rod again, and you mentioned how the nut could have backed completely off the rod with no tension if turned too many times, so I was wondering what will happen, with string tension, if I kept on turning the rod counter-clockwise? Will the nut still eventually come off the rod?

Never ever heard of steaming guitar necks, so that's something to research on and consider. For now I think I'll settle for .004 to .006 of relief on this strong neck.

[Craig]

And regarding setups, I'd love to have the factory setup specs of this guitar, the USA Jerry Cantrell Rampage. I see Craig has specs of a few others on here, but can't find info on this. So should I try emailing G&L myself or could anyone help me out? Thanks a bunch.

Check this post: http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 689#p32689

Hope this helps.

[darwinohm]

HW, yes, you have this figured out. This is a single action truss rod so there is no reason to back it off all the way. Fender Americans use a double action truss rod so you can apply pressure in the reverse mode but I do not care for them. My guitar necks are the flattest about this time of the year in Minnesota. IF you climate is like here it will develop some bow during the summer. Just last night I had to back off the tension on my L-2500 as it was starting to buzz. You may be just fine with it as it is, especially if you have well leveled frets. If it doesn't buzz, no problem.

There are Luthiers who have equipment to steam necks for this very reason. They heat the neck with steam or moist warm air and apply the pressure to the neck as needed. It is kept with that tension for 24 hours or so and then allowed to coll and dry. I had a Fender neck that I couldn't remove the bow with the truss rod and steaming it fixed the problem. There is nothing visible with the neck afterwords indicating it has been steamed. Sometimes it works and again, it may not. It usually doesn't work on a twisted neck. Hope this helps.-- Darwin

[HowlinWolf]

Very interesting and helpful that was Darwin, thanks. This guitar actually has some buzzing on the bass strings that I ignored due to the playability of the low action but I'm hoping it'll go away with the little relief added and raising the action. If there is an issue I'll be sure to seek help here on this forum.

Craig, thanks for directing me to that thread but I've already come across that, as I have many others that discuss issues with this guitar. What I'm looking for is the recommended factory specs of the neck relief and string height, like 1st E string at the 12th fret should measure so and so of an inch etc. I see there are some specs here on string height for guitars with hard tail bridges and also various tremolos, so is there a contact email you recommend I get in touch with to seek this info for my particular guitar?

[Craig]

Very interesting and helpful that was Darwin, thanks. This guitar actually has some buzzing on the bass strings that I ignored due to the playability of the low action but I'm hoping it'll go away with the little relief added and raising the action. If there is an issue I'll be sure to seek help here on this forum.

Craig, thanks for directing me to that thread but I've already come across that, as I have many others that discuss issues with this guitar. What I'm looking for is the recommended factory specs of the neck relief and string height, like 1st E string at the 12th fret should measure so and so of an inch etc. I see there are some specs here on string height for guitars with hard tail bridges and also various tremolos, so is there a contact email you recommend I get in touch with to seek this info for my particular guitar?

I've sent an email to my contact at the factory to see if I can get the setup specs for the JC Signature Rampage.

Stay tuned.

[HowlinWolf]

Very interesting and helpful that was Darwin, thanks. This guitar actually has some buzzing on the bass strings that I ignored due to the playability of the low action but I'm hoping it'll go away with the little relief added and raising the action. If there is an issue I'll be sure to seek help here on this forum.

Craig, thanks for directing me to that thread but I've already come across that, as I have many others that discuss issues with this guitar. What I'm looking for is the recommended factory specs of the neck relief and string height, like 1st E string at the 12th fret should measure so and so of an inch etc. I see there are some specs here on string height for guitars with hard tail bridges and also various tremolos, so is there a contact email you recommend I get in touch with to seek this info for my particular guitar?

I've sent an email to my contact at the factory to see if I can get the setup specs for the JC Signature Rampage.

Stay tuned.

Thank you Craig for the kind gesture, yes I'll stay tuned.

[HowlinWolf]

Ok I have a couple more questions regarding this Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage. I was looking through the guitars on the G&L site just now, all very beautiful and amazing it seems, and when I clicked on the Rampage to look at the specs again, it says the neck radius is 12" and not 13.75" as I think it did before on that site: NECK PROFILE: G&L custom profile with 12" radius and 1 3/4" nut-width. Other websites selling the Rampage still list it as 13.75". And by 'custom profile' does that mean it's no longer a No. 4 neck as I believe it was previously. So is this just a mistake or are they making the newer necks differently?

And regarding the Plek dressed frets, I read that you're stuck with the string gauge used when the neck goes through that process. This guitar came in 10s and I switched to 9s. Is that the reason for the buzz in the lower strings, from frets 1 to about 5? When I got this guitar second-hand the high E broke quickly thereafter and I switched to a new set of 9s. Come to think about it I don't think there was buzzing before I changed the strings. And regarding the buzz, I can hear it acoustically on the guitar but through the amp I don't really hear it. Is that still considered a buzz? I mean I'm mildly annoyed by it, so I am hoping that reverting back to the .010 gauge strings will fix the issue. And I tried raising the action to eliminate the buzz to no avail.

[louis cyfer]

why would you be stuck with a certain gauge of string on a plekked guitar? that makes no sense. as far as relief, ideal relief is 0.001-0.005 imnsho. it takes a while for the neck to settle after a 1/4 turn of the rod, doing 8-10 full turns in 2 days is way excessive and just messing with the neck, not letting it settle in. you have certainly gone passed the mechanical limits of the rod, and having a loose rod rattle in there is not ideal. btw, you would hear that as a buzz, regardless of action. i would suggest a tech at this point, too nice a guitar to learn on.

[HowlinWolf]

why would you be stuck with a certain gauge of string on a plekked guitar? that makes no sense. as far as relief, ideal relief is 0.001-0.005 imnsho. it takes a while for the neck to settle after a 1/4 turn of the rod, doing 8-10 full turns in 2 days is way excessive and just messing with the neck, not letting it settle in. you have certainly gone passed the mechanical limits of the rod, and having a loose rod rattle in there is not ideal. btw, you would hear that as a buzz, regardless of action. i would suggest a tech at this point, too nice a guitar to learn on.

Thanks for your feedback louis. I have to admit it was really stupid of me to make that many turns of the rod. My only other time messing with the rod was on my Fender neck which showed immediate response to the turns I made. With this one since it wasn't responding I thought I had to do more of what I was doing until it responded at that moment so I could get on with setting the bridge radius and intonation. So that's something any beginner reading this should learn never to do. That is the main reason why I started this thread, to ask if it was alright/wrong with what I had done to my truss rod. It's obviously wrong, but having said that I don't think it's damaged, and it doesn't produce rattles when I tap on the back of the fretboard with my knuckles.

I have 0.004 of relief now which I'll settle for. Only problem now is slight fret buzz on the low strings and another annoying thing is the high E when tapping or doing pull offs sometimes slips underneath the fretboard. Would love to hear from other Rampage owners or anyone else who has had this issue.

[HowlinWolf]

Something to add to the whole truss rod thing, my 'mistake' in trying to loosen it to get relief on the neck was turning it too much in the direction that would loosen it(counter-clockwise). Too much because in terms of truss rod adjustment only a quarter to half turn should do the trick or is recommended. And turning it counter-clockwise too many times would have backed the nut off the rod completely. However, according to Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair Guide, it's recommended that you take the nut off and clean and lubricate it. Some excerpts from page 20 of his book:

- The first thing to do, always, is loosen the truss rod nut. It may already be as tight as it goes, and you'd hate to break it before even getting started. In fact, remove the nut completely and brush or blow any dirt from the threads of both the rod and the nut. Add a tiny dab of heavy-bodied lubricant on the threads inside the truss rod nut(GHS GraphitALL, Vaseline or StewMac Guitar Grease). Be careful not to get lubricant on the bare wood. Lubricating the threads makes for a smoother adjustment, especially on older instruments.

- Reinstall the nut until it's just snug(don't put tension on it). Then make a small pencil mark that crosses from the nut onto the neck. When this mark lines back up with itself, that's your snug starting point - a nice reference when making adjustments.

- One half-turn on a truss rod nut is a lot. Once a nut reaches snugness, tighten it one-eighth to one-quarter turn and then check your progress. If adjusting the nut requires neck removal, expect to remove and install the neck several times during this process.

- The effect of a rod adjustment can take days or weeks to be complete. You may adjust a neck perfectly, only to find a day later that the neck has kept moving from the rod's tension - becoming too straight or even back-bowed. Don't panic if this happens; simply readjust it.

From this I'm gathering that the 'tiny quarter turns at a time' and 'a half turn is a lot' refers only to tightening the rod, considering how in order to get the nut off the rod to clean it it may be necessary to do quite a few turns counter-clockwise before it comes off...

[louis cyfer]

it's a lot either way. until there is no tension on the rod. the key is to understand that it takes a long time to see the effect.

[NickHorne]

Around .005 relief with .009 strings on, when the neck's been used to 10's, seems pretty normal.
You will most likely find that the relief increases a little, over days or a few weeks, now that you've slacked the truss off quite a bit.
Stay cool and keep an eye on things and you'll probably be fine.
And I'd agree that .005 relief, or a little less, is fine if the frets are in good shape and your picking style is not extreme. You should be able to get a very nice playable action all along the neck with that relief.

[HowlinWolf]

it's a lot either way. until there is no tension on the rod. the key is to understand that it takes a long time to see the effect.

Ok I hear ya louis!

Around .005 relief with .009 strings on, when the neck's been used to 10's, seems pretty normal.
You will most likely find that the relief increases a little, over days or a few weeks, now that you've slacked the truss off quite a bit.
Stay cool and keep an eye on things and you'll probably be fine.
And I'd agree that .005 relief, or a little less, is fine if the frets are in good shape and your picking style is not extreme. You should be able to get a very nice playable action all along the neck with that relief.

Thanks for your input Nick, much appreciated.

[Craig]

Ok I have a couple more questions regarding this Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage. I was looking through the guitars on the G&L site just now, all very beautiful and amazing it seems, and when I clicked on the Rampage to look at the specs again, it says the neck radius is 12" and not 13.75" as I think it did before on that site: NECK PROFILE: G&L custom profile with 12" radius and 1 3/4" nut-width. Other websites selling the Rampage still list it as 13.75". And by 'custom profile' does that mean it's no longer a No. 4 neck as I believe it was previously. So is this just a mistake or are they making the newer necks differently?

And regarding the Plek dressed frets, I read that you're stuck with the string gauge used when the neck goes through that process. This guitar came in 10s and I switched to 9s. Is that the reason for the buzz in the lower strings, from frets 1 to about 5? When I got this guitar second-hand the high E broke quickly thereafter and I switched to a new set of 9s. Come to think about it I don't think there was buzzing before I changed the strings. And regarding the buzz, I can hear it acoustically on the guitar but through the amp I don't really hear it. Is that still considered a buzz? I mean I'm mildly annoyed by it, so I am hoping that reverting back to the .010 gauge strings will fix the issue. And I tried raising the action to eliminate the buzz to no avail.

I sent your questions to Dave McLaren and here is his response:

The Tribute Series Rampage is 13.75" but shortly a revised version will be coming with the Kahler Hybrid tremolo. This will have 12" radius which is consistent with the USA Rampage and Superhawk.

You could say that a custom profile makes it no longer a #4 neck exactly, but it's based on the #4 with minor proprietary (unlisted) differences. Referencing #4 tells G&L fans a lot about what this neck is like.

The comments the customer found on the internet about the Plek are wrong. The optimization of the Plek is based on a particular amount of relief. It doesn't really care what strings are on it when it takes its measurements, it's looking at curvature of the fingerboard and makes recommendations to the operator to optimize the fret height. The customer can put 9's on the guitar later, and apart from the nut slots being cut for 10s as you know, adjustment of the truss rod should bring the neck to about where it would be with 10s.

In short: after a Plek process, you are no more "stuck" in any way than you would be with a standard fret dress. In fact, you'd be better off starting with the Plek process even if you intend to use different strings later.

Buzz is very subjective. I didn't see any mention his tech adjusting the truss rod, at a bare minimum, or done properly, a full set up to dial in the guitar for 9s. Assuming neither of those happened, I fully expect the guitar more buzz a whole lot acoustically, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he hears it in his amp.

Thanks, Craig.

Dave

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

[HowlinWolf]

Ok I have a couple more questions regarding this Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage. I was looking through the guitars on the G&L site just now, all very beautiful and amazing it seems, and when I clicked on the Rampage to look at the specs again, it says the neck radius is 12" and not 13.75" as I think it did before on that site: NECK PROFILE: G&L custom profile with 12" radius and 1 3/4" nut-width. Other websites selling the Rampage still list it as 13.75". And by 'custom profile' does that mean it's no longer a No. 4 neck as I believe it was previously. So is this just a mistake or are they making the newer necks differently?

And regarding the Plek dressed frets, I read that you're stuck with the string gauge used when the neck goes through that process. This guitar came in 10s and I switched to 9s. Is that the reason for the buzz in the lower strings, from frets 1 to about 5? When I got this guitar second-hand the high E broke quickly thereafter and I switched to a new set of 9s. Come to think about it I don't think there was buzzing before I changed the strings. And regarding the buzz, I can hear it acoustically on the guitar but through the amp I don't really hear it. Is that still considered a buzz? I mean I'm mildly annoyed by it, so I am hoping that reverting back to the .010 gauge strings will fix the issue. And I tried raising the action to eliminate the buzz to no avail.

I sent your questions to Dave McLaren and here is his response:

The Tribute Series Rampage is 13.75" but shortly a revised version will be coming with the Kahler Hybrid tremolo. This will have 12" radius which is consistent with the USA Rampage and Superhawk.

You could say that a custom profile makes it no longer a #4 neck exactly, but it's based on the #4 with minor proprietary (unlisted) differences. Referencing #4 tells G&L fans a lot about what this neck is like.

The comments the customer found on the internet about the Plek are wrong. The optimization of the Plek is based on a particular amount of relief. It doesn't really care what strings are on it when it takes its measurements, it's looking at curvature of the fingerboard and makes recommendations to the operator to optimize the fret height. The customer can put 9's on the guitar later, and apart from the nut slots being cut for 10s as you know, adjustment of the truss rod should bring the neck to about where it would be with 10s.

In short: after a Plek process, you are no more "stuck" in any way than you would be with a standard fret dress. In fact, you'd be better off starting with the Plek process even if you intend to use different strings later.

Buzz is very subjective. I didn't see any mention his tech adjusting the truss rod, at a bare minimum, or done properly, a full set up to dial in the guitar for 9s. Assuming neither of those happened, I fully expect the guitar more buzz a whole lot acoustically, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he hears it in his amp.

Thanks, Craig.

Dave

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

Thank you so much for that Craig, Dave's response was very informative and I've learned something new. I have a few more follow up questions if you don't mind asking him on my behalf, if you do mind then hopefully someone here has the answers, so here goes:

1) Has the USA Jerry Cantrell Rampage always been 12" radius for the neck? Mine is dated May 2011. I always thought it was 13.75" neck radius for both the tribute and USA. And many, or maybe all sites online that sell the USA Rampage list it as 13.75".

2) This guitar comes with a Floyd Rose nut. Is the nut slot cut with the Plek machine as well? By 'nut slot' I mean the slot where the nut sits, not the string slots of the nut.

3) Underneath the Floyd Rose nut is 2 half shims for the bass side of the strings. These seem to be factory shims, but then again it could be from the previous owner. So are these factory shims and why are they there? Regarding nut clearance, is it solely to eliminate buzzing on open strings?

Thanks Craig, Dave, and anyone else who might enlighten me with their wisdom.

[HowlinWolf]

And of course, I forgot the most important question:

4) Dave said "The optimization of the Plek is based on a particular amount of relief." So what's the amount of relief that I should strive for with this guitar?

[Craig]

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

I have now heard back from the factory. The neck setup for the Jerry Cantrell Rampage is the same as the Legacy, S-500,
and Comanche models. I have updated the post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges to reflect this.

Hope this helps.

[Craig]

[
Thank you so much for that Craig, Dave's response was very informative and I've learned something new. I have a few more follow up questions if you don't mind asking him on my behalf, if you do mind then hopefully someone here has the answers, so here goes:

1) Has the USA Jerry Cantrell Rampage always been 12" radius for the neck? Mine is dated May 2011. I always thought it was 13.75" neck radius for both the tribute and USA. And many, or maybe all sites online that sell the USA Rampage list it as 13.75".

2) This guitar comes with a Floyd Rose nut. Is the nut slot cut with the Plek machine as well? By 'nut slot' I mean the slot where the nut sits, not the string slots of the nut.

3) Underneath the Floyd Rose nut is 2 half shims for the bass side of the strings. These seem to be factory shims, but then again it could be from the previous owner. So are these factory shims and why are they there? Regarding nut clearance, is it solely to eliminate buzzing on open strings?

Thanks Craig, Dave, and anyone else who might enlighten me with their wisdom.

1. The 2009-2011 USA JC Rampage builds had the 13.75" radius necks. The neck was changed as Dave described above in 2012. This change
was announced to the dealers and distributors with the January 1, 2012 US Dealer Price List.

2. The Plek machine does not cut the nut slot in the necks.

3. I cannot answer this one but will try and find out from the factory-stay tuned.

[HowlinWolf]

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

I have now heard back from the factory. The neck setup for the Jerry Cantrell Rampage is the same as the Legacy, S-500,
and Comanche models. I have updated the post: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges to reflect this.

Hope this helps.

That helps a lot, thank you Craig, and thank you for answering the questions, and yes I'll stay tuned for more answers!

[Craig]

Ok I have a couple more questions regarding this Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage. I was looking through the guitars on the G&L site just now, all very beautiful and amazing it seems, and when I clicked on the Rampage to look at the specs again, it says the neck radius is 12" and not 13.75" as I think it did before on that site: NECK PROFILE: G&L custom profile with 12" radius and 1 3/4" nut-width. Other websites selling the Rampage still list it as 13.75". And by 'custom profile' does that mean it's no longer a No. 4 neck as I believe it was previously. So is this just a mistake or are they making the newer necks differently?

And regarding the Plek dressed frets, I read that you're stuck with the string gauge used when the neck goes through that process. This guitar came in 10s and I switched to 9s. Is that the reason for the buzz in the lower strings, from frets 1 to about 5? When I got this guitar second-hand the high E broke quickly thereafter and I switched to a new set of 9s. Come to think about it I don't think there was buzzing before I changed the strings. And regarding the buzz, I can hear it acoustically on the guitar but through the amp I don't really hear it. Is that still considered a buzz? I mean I'm mildly annoyed by it, so I am hoping that reverting back to the .010 gauge strings will fix the issue. And I tried raising the action to eliminate the buzz to no avail.

I sent your questions to Dave McLaren and here is his response:

The Tribute Series Rampage is 13.75" but shortly a revised version will be coming with the Kahler Hybrid tremolo. This will have 12" radius which is consistent with the USA Rampage and Superhawk.

You could say that a custom profile makes it no longer a #4 neck exactly, but it's based on the #4 with minor proprietary (unlisted) differences. Referencing #4 tells G&L fans a lot about what this neck is like.

The comments the customer found on the internet about the Plek are wrong. The optimization of the Plek is based on a particular amount of relief. It doesn't really care what strings are on it when it takes its measurements, it's looking at curvature of the fingerboard and makes recommendations to the operator to optimize the fret height. The customer can put 9's on the guitar later, and apart from the nut slots being cut for 10s as you know, adjustment of the truss rod should bring the neck to about where it would be with 10s.

In short: after a Plek process, you are no more "stuck" in any way than you would be with a standard fret dress. In fact, you'd be better off starting with the Plek process even if you intend to use different strings later.

Buzz is very subjective. I didn't see any mention his tech adjusting the truss rod, at a bare minimum, or done properly, a full set up to dial in the guitar for 9s. Assuming neither of those happened, I fully expect the guitar more buzz a whole lot acoustically, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he hears it in his amp.

Thanks, Craig.

Dave

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

As can sometimes happen, specifications can change. In this case, the US Jerry Cantrell Signature models have been changed to a 14" radius neck.
See this post for details: http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 540#p55540. Also, the G&L website spec pages have been updated to reflect this.

[HowlinWolf]

Ok I have a couple more questions regarding this Jerry Cantrell USA Rampage. I was looking through the guitars on the G&L site just now, all very beautiful and amazing it seems, and when I clicked on the Rampage to look at the specs again, it says the neck radius is 12" and not 13.75" as I think it did before on that site: NECK PROFILE: G&L custom profile with 12" radius and 1 3/4" nut-width. Other websites selling the Rampage still list it as 13.75". And by 'custom profile' does that mean it's no longer a No. 4 neck as I believe it was previously. So is this just a mistake or are they making the newer necks differently?

And regarding the Plek dressed frets, I read that you're stuck with the string gauge used when the neck goes through that process. This guitar came in 10s and I switched to 9s. Is that the reason for the buzz in the lower strings, from frets 1 to about 5? When I got this guitar second-hand the high E broke quickly thereafter and I switched to a new set of 9s. Come to think about it I don't think there was buzzing before I changed the strings. And regarding the buzz, I can hear it acoustically on the guitar but through the amp I don't really hear it. Is that still considered a buzz? I mean I'm mildly annoyed by it, so I am hoping that reverting back to the .010 gauge strings will fix the issue. And I tried raising the action to eliminate the buzz to no avail.

I sent your questions to Dave McLaren and here is his response:

The Tribute Series Rampage is 13.75" but shortly a revised version will be coming with the Kahler Hybrid tremolo. This will have 12" radius which is consistent with the USA Rampage and Superhawk.

You could say that a custom profile makes it no longer a #4 neck exactly, but it's based on the #4 with minor proprietary (unlisted) differences. Referencing #4 tells G&L fans a lot about what this neck is like.

The comments the customer found on the internet about the Plek are wrong. The optimization of the Plek is based on a particular amount of relief. It doesn't really care what strings are on it when it takes its measurements, it's looking at curvature of the fingerboard and makes recommendations to the operator to optimize the fret height. The customer can put 9's on the guitar later, and apart from the nut slots being cut for 10s as you know, adjustment of the truss rod should bring the neck to about where it would be with 10s.

In short: after a Plek process, you are no more "stuck" in any way than you would be with a standard fret dress. In fact, you'd be better off starting with the Plek process even if you intend to use different strings later.

Buzz is very subjective. I didn't see any mention his tech adjusting the truss rod, at a bare minimum, or done properly, a full set up to dial in the guitar for 9s. Assuming neither of those happened, I fully expect the guitar more buzz a whole lot acoustically, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he hears it in his amp.

Thanks, Craig.

Dave

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear back from the factory about the factory setup, so please continue to stay tuned.

As can sometimes happen, specifications can change. In this case, the US Jerry Cantrell Signature models have been changed to a 14" radius neck.
See this post for details: http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 540#p55540. Also, the G&L website spec pages have been updated to reflect this.

Thanks Craig for the update. To make everything 'clearer than mud', I have one final question regarding the neck radii of these guitars.

In the reply that you linked to, Dave says:

"There was some back and forth about the radius and it ended up 12" on the site. 14" is what is on the US versions so now the Superhawk/SuperhawkDeluxe/Rampage US all show 14" just like the certificates being issued."

So my question is are there any Rampages out there or will there be any Superhawks with 12" neck radius? Or was the initial change to a 14" from a 13.75" and the 12" is just a listing mistake. The flatter 13.75", 14" radius neck and 1 3/4" nut width is what sets these guitars apart from the other G&Ls in my opinion(And of course with the Rampage the Kahler tremolo). In the case of the Superhawk which I want to get, it has Seymour Duncan 59' and JB humbuckers with a saddle lock bridge. You can get that same pickup combo with 12" radius necks in the Asat Deluxe, F100, Invader XL and Legacy 2HB. Most of them even with the same bridge. So I'm happy that the Superhawk has a 14" radius neck instead of a 12". Really that is what distinguishes it from an Asat Deluxe or Legacy 2HB apart from the body shape and finish options. It even has the same body shape as an F100! So the flatter neck makes this guitar, and the Rampage, more of a shred guitar which is cool. I only wish the Superhawk had the option of a Kahler or even a dual fulcrum vibrato bridge.

[Craig]

[
Thanks Craig for the update. To make everything 'clearer than mud', I have one final question regarding the neck radii of these guitars.

In the reply that you linked to, Dave says:

"There was some back and forth about the radius and it ended up 12" on the site. 14" is what is on the US versions so now the Superhawk/SuperhawkDeluxe/Rampage US all show 14" just like the certificates being issued."

So my question is are there any Rampages out there or will there be any Superhawks with 12" neck radius? Or was the initial change to a 14" from a 13.75" and the 12" is just a listing mistake. The flatter 13.75", 14" radius neck and 1 3/4" nut width is what sets these guitars apart from the other G&Ls in my opinion(And of course with the Rampage the Kahler tremolo). In the case of the Superhawk which I want to get, it has Seymour Duncan 59' and JB humbuckers with a saddle lock bridge. You can get that same pickup combo with 12" radius necks in the Asat Deluxe, F100, Invader XL and Legacy 2HB. Most of them even with the same bridge. So I'm happy that the Superhawk has a 14" radius neck instead of a 12". Really that is what distinguishes it from an Asat Deluxe or Legacy 2HB apart from the body shape and finish options. It even has the same body shape as an F100! So the flatter neck makes this guitar, and the Rampage, more of a shred guitar which is cool. I only wish the Superhawk had the option of a Kahler or even a dual fulcrum vibrato bridge.

This will probably keep it somewhat "muddied" , but here it goes:

The original US Rampages and Superhawks came with a 1 3/4" width nut and 12" radius necks. See Production List of G&L Instruments (USA), Gallery Album: 1984 - 1985 Memorabilia and What are the specifications of the original G&L Rampage?. Now look at the 1988-89 Gallery Album and you will see some changes. Nine years after the Rampage was discontinued, the Custom Creations Rampage came out with a limited production run of 70 instruments. This had a #4 neck (1 3/4" nut width and 12" radius). See Custom Creations 2000 Rampage vs original Rampage.

Now to the present: the 13.75" radius neck and the 14" radius neck are essentially one and the same, and they are now referring to it as a 14" radius. This is the only
radius available on the US Jerry Cantrell models.

Also, the current Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature, Tribute Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature, and Superhawk Jerry Cantrell Signature models all have a
Soft Maple body. I suspect that the upcoming Tribute Superhawk Jerry Cantrell will too, but until the full specs have been released that is just speculation.
No other current standard production models have this body wood type.

I'm sure I have missed other Rampage and Superhawk posts located on the G&LDP and G&L Knowledgebase, so you might want to do some searching of these, as well.

Hope this helps.

[HowlinWolf]

This will probably keep it somewhat "muddied" , but here it goes:

The original US Rampages and Superhawks came with a 1 3/4" width nut and 12" radius necks. See Production List of G&L Instruments (USA), Gallery Album: 1984 - 1985 Memorabilia and What are the specifications of the original G&L Rampage?. Now look at the 1988-89 Gallery Album and you will see some changes. Nine years after the Rampage was discontinued, the Custom Creations Rampage came out with a limited production run of 70 instruments. This had a #4 neck (1 3/4" nut width and 12" radius). See Custom Creations 2000 Rampage vs original Rampage.

Now to the present: the 13.75" radius neck and the 14" radius neck are essentially one and the same, and they are now referring to it as a 14" radius. This is the only
radius available on the US Jerry Cantrell models.

Also, the current Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature, Tribute Rampage Jerry Cantrell Signature, and Superhawk Jerry Cantrell Signature models all have a
Soft Maple body. I suspect that the upcoming Tribute Superhawk Jerry Cantrell will too, but until the full specs have been released that is just speculation.
No other current standard production models have this body wood type.

I'm sure I have missed other Rampage and Superhawk posts located on the G&LDP and G&L Knowledgebase, so you might want to do some searching of these, as well.

Hope this helps.

Those are some great threads with great info, I came across them before but this time I read it more carefully, taking mental notes. And the catalogs are very cool to see and informative too. 25" radius necks, crazy! I never believed those, thinking someone mistook the scale length for the neck radius until I saw it written on the catalog. I only wish Gabe would do a Customs Creations Rampage vs Current Rampage specs analysis as that would be a great read. I like to read up on the lineage of the Rampage which is of great interest to me obviously cause I own one so I'll be sure to be doing more searches like you suggested. This week I also ordered the latter George Fullerton G&L book as I've become quite interested in G&L guitars in general.

And also, I was browsing through this board the other day and came across a thread where this guy wanted more info on his newly acquired Invader and you got Dave to give out some background info on it based on its serial number. I didn't know that was possible! If you really don't mind, cause I'm really curious about where my Rampage has been before I got it, could you do the same with this? That would be greatly appreciated, the serial no. is CLF 60302. Believe the neck or body says May 2011. Thank you!

[Craig]

And also, I was browsing through this board the other day and came across a thread where this guy wanted more info on his newly acquired Invader and you got Dave to give out some background info on it based on its serial number. I didn't know that was possible! If you really don't mind, cause I'm really curious about where my Rampage has been before I got it, could you do the same with this? That would be greatly appreciated, the serial no. is CLF 60302. Believe the neck or body says May 2011. Thank you!

Are you sure about the serial number? Is it CLF60302 or is it CLF060302? Is the serial number a water slide decal on the back of the neck or
is it on a metal plate which is screwed into the back of the neck? If it's the latter of those, you should have received a Custom Build Specification Certificate similar to
this one in the Gallery, which provides a detailed specification of your guitar. Check in the folder with the COA, warranty card, case keys, and allen wrenches.

BTW, I don't think you have posted a photo of your Rampage yet. It don't exist without a photo.

[yowhatsshakin]

Are you sure about the serial number? Is it CLF60302 or is it CLF060302? Is the serial number a water slide decal on the back of the neck or
is it on a metal plate which is screwed into the back of the neck?

The first 'plated' S/N was CLF061000, so CLF60302 should be water slide and have been produced in the months before February 2011.

- Jos

[Craig]

Are you sure about the serial number? Is it CLF60302 or is it CLF060302? Is the serial number a water slide decal on the back of the neck or
is it on a metal plate which is screwed into the back of the neck?

The first 'plated' S/N was CLF061000, so CLF60302 should be water slide and have been produced in the months before February 2011.

- Jos

You are correct.

I was focused on the build date and not paying closer attention to the serial number.

[HowlinWolf]

Are you sure about the serial number? Is it CLF60302 or is it CLF060302? Is the serial number a water slide decal on the back of the neck or
is it on a metal plate which is screwed into the back of the neck?

The first 'plated' S/N was CLF061000, so CLF60302 should be water slide and have been produced in the months before February 2011.

- Jos

You are correct.

I was focused on the build date and not paying closer attention to the serial number.

Yes Craig I am sure about the serial number! I only peeked under the neck once when I first got this and it was stamped xx(can't remember) May 2011 on either the neck or body, had only one stamp, so it's interesting that 'before Feb 2011' is mentioned. Water silde SN. Regarding pictures, I might post them one day but I've been hesitant because with the Rampage, the only option is between three colors. Some peeps have posted pictures of the tribute Rampage in ivory which is nearly identical to what mine is except for the color of the tremolo and no 'tribute series' below the G&L logo at the headstock. Unlike say a Legacy or an Invader which comes in a myriad of colors and different spec options, I feel that once you've seen an ivory Rampage you've seen all the rest of the ivory Rampages. In any case the little picture in my signature is my Rampage so there is your proof, for now at least!

And in the other thread that I mentioned, this guy got an Invader XL which he thought was built for a member of some band and based on the serial number you sent to Dave he came back with where the guitar was shipped to and when. That is what I'd like to know about my Rampage, where it was shipped to cause it might be an indicator of where it has been previously. And when is good to know too, as is just about any other info Dave can provide!

[Craig]

Yes Craig I am sure about the serial number! I only peeked under the neck once when I first got this and it was stamped xx(can't remember) May 2011 on either the neck or body, had only one stamp, so it's interesting that 'before Feb 2011' is mentioned. Water silde SN. Regarding pictures, I might post them one day but I've been hesitant because with the Rampage, the only option is between three colors. Some peeps have posted pictures of the tribute Rampage in ivory which is nearly identical to what mine is except for the color of the tremolo and no 'tribute series' below the G&L logo at the headstock. Unlike say a Legacy or an Invader which comes in a myriad of colors and different spec options, I feel that once you've seen an ivory Rampage you've seen all the rest of the ivory Rampages. In any case the little picture in my signature is my Rampage so there is your proof, for now at least!

And in the other thread that I mentioned, this guy got an Invader XL which he thought was built for a member of some band and based on the serial number you sent to Dave he came back with where the guitar was shipped to and when. That is what I'd like to know about my Rampage, where it was shipped to cause it might be an indicator of where it has been previously. And when is good to know too, as is just about any other info Dave can provide!

I just emailed Dave to see if he can get the details on your guitar.

Stay tuned.

[HowlinWolf]

I just emailed Dave to see if he can get the details on your guitar.

Stay tuned.

Sweet, thanks Craig! Can't wait to hear back from Dave...

[Craig]

I just emailed Dave to see if he can get the details on your guitar.

Stay tuned.

Sweet, thanks Craig! Can't wait to hear back from Dave...

Here's Dave's info:

CLF60302 Rampage JC Ivory/Ebony completed 5/19/11. Looks like we shipped it on 5/23/11 to Musician's Friend.

[HowlinWolf]

Here's Dave's info:

CLF60302 Rampage JC Ivory/Ebony completed 5/19/11. Looks like we shipped it on 5/23/11 to Musician's Friend.

Nice, I even know the guitar's 'birthday' now! So the previous owner probably bought it off MF, whereas I bought it off GuitarCenter.com, that's nice to know... Thanks Craig!

[louis cyfer]

Here's Dave's info:

CLF60302 Rampage JC Ivory/Ebony completed 5/19/11. Looks like we shipped it on 5/23/11 to Musician's Friend.

Nice, I even know the guitar's 'birthday' now! So the previous owner probably bought it off MF, whereas I bought it off GuitarCenter.com, that's nice to know... Thanks Craig!

mf and guitar center are the same company.

[HowlinWolf]

Here's Dave's info:

CLF60302 Rampage JC Ivory/Ebony completed 5/19/11. Looks like we shipped it on 5/23/11 to Musician's Friend.

Nice, I even know the guitar's 'birthday' now! So the previous owner probably bought it off MF, whereas I bought it off GuitarCenter.com, that's nice to know... Thanks Craig!

mf and guitar center are the same company.

Yes I know that, they have a warehouse in Kansas. But the point is, the previous owner still probably bought it off MF, whereas I bought it off GuitarCenter.com, and that's nice to know!