Which vibrato arm, Early or current?

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:55 am

On the G&L web site they offer two vibrato arms, an early one and a current one.

I just bought a used (gorgeous, awesome) blueburst USA Legacy, and the guy had lost the vibrato arm. I don't know how old the guitar is, but maybe the serial number might help me find the right era, etc...

Serial is: 080208368

It is a 4-bolt model, and it just says "G&L" and "Legacy" on the headstock.

In a semi-circle above the serial number on the back of the headstock, is a semi-circle that says "G&L GUITARS"

Any help determining which vibrato arm is greatly appreciated.

Candleman

Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:24 am

candleman wrote:On the G&L web site they offer two vibrato arms, an early one and a current one.

I just bought a used (gorgeous, awesome) blueburst USA Legacy, and the guy had lost the vibrato arm. I don't know how old the guitar is, but maybe the serial number might help me find the right era, etc...

Serial is: 080208368

It is a 4-bolt model, and it just says "G&L" and "Legacy" on the headstock.

In a semi-circle above the serial number on the back of the headstock, is a semi-circle that says "G&L GUITARS"

Any help determining which vibrato arm is greatly appreciated.

Candleman

First let's clarify the origin of the Legacy.

The serial number and semi-circle on the back of the headstock clearly identifies this as a Tribute Series G&L Legacy.
The build date is February 2008 and the country of origin is Indonesia. See: Serial number significance
and look closely at the semi-circle and you should see the origin country. Also look at the front of the headstock and locate the G&L decal; below it you should see
"Tribute Series".

Now that we have that information, this is the vibrato arm to order: http://g-l-online-store.myshopify.com/c ... ibrato-arm.

Hope this helps.

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:24 pm

The guitar headstock does not currently have the words Tribute (on the front) or Made in Indonesia (on the back). The place I bought it from will give me my money back if I can prove this is a fake. They sold it to me as a USA G&L.

Pics:

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:37 pm

front of headstock

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/ ... G_1094.jpg

back of headstock

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/ ... G_1095.jpg

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:43 pm

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:49 pm

I'm having some Internet issues tonight, so if this posts twice, I apologize, I am trying to get to the bottom of this...

Here is a photo I found on the web of the back of the headstock of an Indonesian-made Tirbute Legacy, not how easy it would be to scrape or sand off the word "INDONESIA"...

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:52 pm

Also, here is the correct Tribute series front of headstock. Again, very easy to scrape or sand off the words "Tribute Series" making it seems to be a USA-made G&L...

Case24 · Post by **Case24** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:55 pm

That is definitely a Tribute. Sorry to hear you were told otherwise.

Greg.

Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:58 pm

candleman wrote:

That is definitely a doctored Tribute Legacy neck.
The Legacy decal script font was only used on the Tribute Series Legacy model.
The Serial Number is a dead give away and I am surprised that the dealer (G&L dealer? Perhaps not)
would have missed that.

It's good that the dealer will take it back.

Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:03 pm

candleman wrote:Also, here is the correct Tribute series front of headstock. Again, very easy to scrape or sand off the words "Tribute Series" making it seems to be a USA-made G&L...

G&L changed the font of the model name to the same font used on the US Legacy in 2009. The "Tribute Series" water slide decal is under the G&L logo and like you mention, it is very easy to remove.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:13 pm

The lettering appears to be on top of the finish on my Tribute so any part of it could be easily removed by someone who was patient. That is why serial numbers and such information should be under the finish to say the least. This is also a compelling reason why toaster serial plate numbers should not be used. The old waterslide was applied before the finishing. It is not a problem for those of us who are familiar with G&Ls but here is an example of an unsuspecting buyer who purchased something that was presented differently by possibly an unknowing dealer. Good thing this was posted on the forum. Craig nailed it as being doctored- great call.

Another clue is the tuners do not have a G&L logo.

Was this purchased from a G&L dealer? -- Darwin

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:31 pm

I bought the guitar at a non-G&L dealer who buys and trades lots of used guitars. Most likely it is news to him as well.

He originally priced it at $795 (USA-territory) and over x-mas had it marked down to $495 with a red bow on it. I still have the price tag with both prices and the bow...

It was done so slick you cannot see any scrape or sanding marks just looking at it.

I e-mailed Dave McLaren, I need solid proof to get my money back. If anyone could help me there it would be Dave.

A simple email from him w/ his contact info in his email signature would be good enough I think.

I will have to say... as a Tribute model... this thing is still fantastic. I will only take it back because on principle you just can't be selling a lesser expensive model for the price of its USA cousin. Had I been looking for a Tribute, this one is a freaking beauty... but I understood it and was told it was a USA model.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:43 pm

the serial number is proof it's a Tribute , they don't have those kind of numbers on a USA ...... the Tributes still use American pick ups so its going to sound great

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:09 pm

Do the USA serial numbers always start with a G or CLF, or how are they different?

Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:14 pm

candleman wrote:Do the USA serial numbers always start with a G or CLF, or how are they different?

For the answer, look at the link I posted in my first reply.

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:24 pm

candleman wrote:Do the USA serial numbers always start with a G or CLF, or how are they different?

It depends on the year. From 1980 through 1997, the serial numbers were G followed by six digits and were stamped on the bridge (1980-1983) or a three-bolt neck plate (1983-1997). In 1997 the numbers moved to the back of the headstock, on a decal under the finish. In part of 1997 and 1998 the prefix was CL (for "Clarence Leo"). It changed to CLF (for Clarence Leo Fender) in 1998. The neck plates changed from three to four bolts when the serial number prefixes changed from G to CL. At some point in the past couple of years the decal on the back of the headstock was replaced by a metal tag (the "toaster plate" Darwin mentioned,which many of us also call the "microwave tag"). I'm not sure when that was, as I stick mainly to the Leo-era instruments.

I hope this helps.

Ken

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:50 pm

There's even more proof/evidence of foul play.... man, I wish my camera was good enough to photograph this...

Using a good magnifying glass and good lighting, you can still see traces of the black "INDONESIA" in the wood grain under the serial number where "INDONESIA" USED TO BE...

And by the same method, you can still see traces of the "Tribute Series" black ink under the G&L logo... it is in the wood grain and they didn't do a "perfect" job of removing those words. ("INDONESIA" nor "Tribute Series")

A good magnifying glass comes in handy some times.

I just they give me my money back tomorrow... fingers, toes, and eyes are crossed....

I also printed out several pages here from the registry showing Tribute Legacy's with 8 digit serial numbers... as well as printing out several pages from the same of USA Legacy's starting with a G in the serial number.

Plus I printed out the serial number page Craig linked me to above...

ANNNNNNNNND...

I got an email back from Dave McClaren stating that this is a Tribute neck.

Yay, G&L people....

When/if I do get my money back, I am already working on my next G&L buy (from a real G&L dealer, LOL)

It will be a one-of-a-kind special order... I'll post pics, etc when I get her home....

I gotta say, I love G&Ls. I'm only a short timer on this board, but it is great to see folks with a similar passion fr this awesome brand.

Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:38 pm

One other place you could have looked at is the G&L Registry. I went there to add it and found
that it was already registered correctly as a Tribute Legacy. I did edit the entry and added this:

[Reg Admin note: BE AWARE that the neck on this guitar has been doctored.
The Tribute Series decal under the G&L logo and the INDONESIA decal below
the serial number has been removed in an attempt to disguise it as a US built Legacy]

BTW, this is the first time I have seen this done. But I am quite certain that there are others out
there as well. Hopefully this post will help others looking to purchase a used G&L, so they can
do their homework BEFORE purchasing.

Hope this helps.

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:57 pm

HOLY CRAP!!!! That is amazing.

So perhaps whoever was the first owner loved it and registered it as a Tribute. Then some idiot later thought they'd be clever and tried to pull a fast one.

Wow.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:24 am

candleman wrote:HOLY CRAP!!!! That is amazing.

So perhaps whoever was the first owner loved it and registered it as a Tribute. Then some idiot later thought they'd be clever and tried to pull a fast one.

Wow.

BINGO !! ..... if the guitar is nice and they adjust the price for what it is , then it will still be a good guitar , just not a USA

Case24 · Post by **Case24** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:36 am

Call me a negative person but I wouldn't trust that dealer or he is none too bright. A mint condition "USA" Legacy at a blow out price of $495?? Come on, I think he knew it was a Tribute and either he got hosed by the person who traded it in or he was looking to hose someone else. Just my $.02. Used Tributes around her go for about $250 to $400 and used USA models about $700 to $1000 depending on model and condition.

This is one reason I can't understand G&L changing from the original Tribute in large type with by G&L in small type on the original Tribute headstocks to the G&L in large type with Tribute Series in small type underneath on the current headstocks. It makes it easier for things like this to happen and in my opinion degrades the value of the USA guitars in the eyes of the general public. It's amazing how many people think that all G&L guitars are made overseas. Dumb move if you ask me. One thing that Fender got right was putting Squire in large font on its offshore guitars and Gibson as well with their Epiphone brand (although Epiphone used to be held in a higher esteem before Gibson bought it). End of rant.

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:34 am

I agree with you about the emblem location and detail. I think the older, larger, harder to remove "Tribute" logo would not have been so easy to make into a counterfeit guitar.

Also, since this one has a satin neck, it made it easier for the perpetrator to commit the felony. All they had to do was scrape off the INDONESIA and TRIBUTE SERIES with a razor blade. Using a magnifying glass, I can still see particles of the black ink on both sides of the headstock.

I assume creating counterfeit guitar is a felony... (?) I am wondering if selling a counterfeit guitar is a felony as well (??) I find it hard to believe they didn't know it was a fake.

Most of the counterfeits I have ever seen are those Chinese-made Gibsons and Fenders. They copy those right down to stamping a fake serial number and "Made in USA" on the back of the headstock of the Gibsons. They even come with fake Gibson-logo cases.

I am going loaded for bear to the place I bought it here in a few minutes. I have an email from Dave McClaren stating it is a Tribute neck, plus several pages from the registry here printed out showing the difference between G&L USA serials and Tribute serials.

If they don't give me my money back in full (not some in-store credit crap story) then I my next visit will be to the county sheriff.

I think any reputable shop is going to see the error and give me the money back. If they want to play hardball, I can go all day like a lumberjack... LOL.

I have also printed out several news stories from the Internet about the Feds getting involved with counterfeit guitar cases. If they want a fight, they picked the wrong guy to mess with.... hahaha.

I'll let you folks know how's it goes.

I was also thinking I might post a descriptive post here detailing the event and the caution, and maybe they could make it a sticky here to protect future G&L buyers.

Candleman

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:41 am

I am printing out this page and taking it with me to the guitar store that sold me this guitar:
http://www.naw.org/govrelations/advisor ... icleid=563

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:50 pm

I just got back from the store that had sold me this guitar... and they refunded every penny back to me. In cash, and I had for the balance on a debit card, LOL.

He didn't question me, he didn't put up any kind of fuss, he didn't even look at the area that had been scraped off when I tried to explain how I knew.... He did verify the serial number was the same on the receipt, then he went to the back, got $500+ in twenties and I was on my way. Fastest return transaction I've ever made in my life.

Case24 · Post by **Case24** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:36 pm

The speed and ease of the refund is interesting to say the least. Glad to hear you got your money back. Good luck in your future purchases.

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:00 pm

I took the money and made a special order through a G&L dealer for a guitar I've wanted for a decade... money well spent.

Guitar porn to follow when it arrives from the factory...

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:22 pm

candleman wrote:I took the money and made a special order through a G&L dealer for a guitar I've wanted for a decade... money well spent.

Guitar porn to follow when it arrives from the factory...

sweet !!

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:33 pm

Glad to hear it worked out. I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the one you just ordered. Any hints what it will be?

Ken

candleman · Post by **candleman** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:06 pm

Spoiler alert... LOL

Legacy HB
Vintage White
Mint PG
White pups/knobs
REVERSE headstock
Gloss neck
Saddle Lock bridge (hard tail !!)

Case24 · Post by **Case24** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:42 am

That'll be a sweet Legacy and quite unique! Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing the pictures when it arrives.

Guitars by Leo (aka "GbL")

Which vibrato arm, Early or current?

Which vibrato arm, Early or current?

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