1982 G&L SC-2 Neck...Truss Rod Spacer Issue. Please help!

[kwyjibo]

Hi Everyone,

Before I dive in- I am new to the forum and the world of G&L. I've long wanted an SC-2 or SC-1 and I recently got the opportunity to purchase an '82 SC-2 (just registered it) and I totally get the obsession now. Really an incredible little guitar and I've been very happy except for the action. There was a lot of relief in the neck (around 0.03"), but the truss rod nut wouldn't budge- loose or tighten. I dropped a bead of liquid wrench in and was able to loosen it freely after a couple of hours. It tightened maybe an 1/8th of a turn, but it was clear that the nut was maxed out. I went on G&L's store and got a replacement nut and brass spacer washers for vintage guitars...

Now here is the problem and I can't find any information out there and I am freaking out a little bit. Are the washers supposed to be very snug in the truss rod cavity?

I received the replacement parts last night and got to work. I noticed that the washer was very snug in the cavity and I pulled it out. I thought it would just drop right in over the threads. However, in my excitement to get this guitar ripping, I put it back in and figured that of course the O.D. of the washer would fit since it came from G&L...So, I got the washer over the threads and started pushing it into the truss rod cavity with a small allen wrench...Well, the washer is very much stuck in the cavity now. There is plenty of thread for the nut to screw on, but I stopped myself from doing anything more so that I don't cause any actual damage in case something is wrong.

Does anyone else have experience in this realm? Is the outer dimensions of the brass spacer washers supposed to be very, very snug against the wooden walls of the truss rod cavity? Is this just because the wood has compressed over time and it is fine to put the nut back on and adjust accordingly?

Any and all answers are appreciated. I am just really nervous that I screwed up this neck. I think I will be able to get the washer out with a little creativity and elbow grease, but I am praying that everything is ok and I can proceed as usual. Thanks so much in advance- my anxiety is through the roof on this one.

Edit: Also, I took some photos this morning before running to work. I can post them if that would help people, but I don't think it would since it is pretty straight forward, i.e. Brass washer spacer from G&L store is sitting very, very snug in the truss rod cavity. Can easily screw the nut back on, but I am scared that something is wrong since I thought they would just drop right in with no pressure. I emailed G&L just now, too.

[DanDoulogos]

This isn't an "answer" per se, but a possible consideration. Changes in the humidity and temperature at which a guitar is normally stored can result in a shrinking or swelling of the wood - which could explain the situation you describe. I've seen a guitar left in a church basement for two weeks (cooler and more humid) suddenly buzz like the devil after the first five frets, only to lose the buzz after a couple of weeks back in the owners home.

Stuff like that typically isn't the first thing we think of, but as it can be the cause, I thought I'd mention it. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible - and more likely in a scenario where a guitar has recently moved from one environment to another. So something to consider.

[kwyjibo]

Thanks for the reply. Yes that is very true. Before I left this morning for work, I actually placed the neck next to my window that has a bit of a draft, thinking maybe the wood will contract just enough from the cold to make a difference, but I really doubt that this is the culprit in this situation.

I just ordered a dental tool kit to help me get the brass spacer out if need be. I'm not going to touch the neck until I get a better idea of what is going on, which is a bummer, but I can't find any information out there about a similar scenario. Are the spacer washers supposed to be very tight? Everything I read makes it seem like they can slip in and out of the cavity with ease.

This is where my head is at:

1. Get the washer out and machine one with a smaller O.D. because the wood has compressed over time to a weird diameter.

or

2. I just need to put the replacement truss rod nut on and tightening it will slowly force the washer into place.

I really have no idea what to do. If anyone on here has installed the 1980-2006 replacement washers & nut before, holler at me. Even better if you had a similar problem and found a solution. And, even better if I am flipping out over nothing and I should proceed as usual.

I just wanna play my G&L

[kwyjibo]

Posting an email response from the golden god Memo Romero just in case anyone else in the world runs into a similar situation and thinks that something is wrong...Seems like it's all good...

"The washer should be able to move in and out of the cavity. There are some instances where there could be as much as two washers. Over time the wood can expand , resulting in the washer to not move much. This will not affect anything on the truss rod nut and how it works, so rest assured, you did not damage anything. What I will recommend if you are not familiar with what you are doing then its best to take it to a professional who is experienced in this type of work. If you have any further questions please email me back, all the best."

[derick]

This won't help the OP because the SC necks were, I believe, all bi-cut. But the first instruments made by G&L used a smaller diameter truss rod nut than G&L sells on their website. The pre bi-cut necks had a plastic sleeve and the truss rod nut sold as "80-06" won't fit these earlier style necks. Unless someone has better information, I think that all skunk stripe necks had this smaller diameter nut.

[Katefan]

Congrats on your Leo-era SC-2.

IMB, I think your best bet is to take it to a knowledgable guitar tech..

FWIW - nothing against BBE/G&L but I learned a long time ago they aren't in the business of supporting Leo-era instruments. IME, they haven't kept up with old school specs enough and therefore the new replacement parts don't generally fit and/or work properly. YRMV but that's been my experience over the past 18 years...

Cheers,
KF

[kwyjibo]

Hi everyone-

Just a quick update on my end, primarily to give out some trial by error information just in case anyone else has a similar problem and can't find an answer. (btw the guitar is fine if you don't feel like reading)

Firstly, I have to commend G&L on the quick responses. I really appreciate that customer service and they're truly doing things right over there.

That being said, if you have a vintage G&L and are thinking about buying their replacement truss rod nut/washer set, do not be a moron like me and just assume that it will fit. Measure the diameter of the truss rod cavity and make sure there is enough clearance for their washers...they did not just drop in on mine...like at all... and I paid the price of a near panic attack for being naive.

The advice given to me by G&L was essentially take it to a guitar tech and have them widen the truss rod cavity. Not to sound smug or anything, but I have a fair amount of experience building and fixing guitars, regardless of my stupid mistake to not measure the washer, I think this is a little bit of an extreme option. I certainly could widen the truss rod cavity myself, but it's a bit absurd and unnecessary in my book to bore out wood from the truss rod cavity so that a silly brash washer will fit. Again, I repeat, measure the diameter of your truss rod cavity...If it has expanded over time, like mine had, go get a couple of brass washers that will fit the truss rod and then have the outer diameter filed to custom fit your specific G&L baby. There's no reason to remove wood over a washer. This little tidbit of probably captain obvious advice doesn't apply to a broken truss rod or stripped nut - of course.

Now for the good news-

I ordered some cheap dental equipment to get the washer out, but I realized there was really no way I'd be able to (seriously it was very snug ) Since the two main options were widen the truss rod cavity or buy a new neck, I figured I had nothing to lose and took the nuclear option. I took one of my thin allen wrenches and gently tapped on the edges of the washer with a hammer - success! I was able to push it down a bit further. It was relatively level at this point and far enough down in the cavity that I figured screw it (pun intended)

I took the nuclear option and slowly tightened the replacement nut back onto the truss rod over the course of a week. By about day 3, I noticed the relief going down slightly and the nut was still moving smoothly. By about day 5, the relief was around 0.02"...I like my boards dead straight, but I figured I'd rather have high action than a broken neck...as a last hail mary, I gave the nut a strong 1/2 turn...It's tight and I have made myself swear to stop touching it at this point and just accept wherever it's at after it settles.

WELL- sometimes being an idiot pays off...or you just get lucky. The relief is now between 0.02" and 0.01" and the SC-2 is playing like an absolute dream and sounds like a cowboy on speed. I am totally in love and am so happy that I somehow was able to pull this off without a scratch, ding, crack, or snap.

Don't be like me - measure and be careful, don't be hasty. That being said, these guitars are absolute tanks and maple is a very strong wood, i.e. don't treat it like it's made of stone but also don't act like your guitar is made of balsa wood either. Measure, measure, measure but also don't be afraid to give it some tough lovin' if you have to.

Thanks for all of the replies in my time of need and I'm sure you'll all be happy to read that the sc-2 is safe and sound and being well loved. Absolute rock and roll machine and I've been on a recording warpath since I got it setup comfortably.

Now I have to just stop myself from buying more! (someone tell me that I don't need an sc-1...because I'm struggling lol)

[WitSok]

Sweet! Glad to hear the good news. All the SC-1's I've seen lately are more than I'm willing to pay... But if an HG-2 or HG-1 popped up I don't know what I'd do... I think I'd fail at hiding it and have some explaining to do!

Cheers, Dan

[Katefan]

Sweet as. Btw, pics or it doesn't exist...

[kwyjibo]

Sweet as. Btw, pics or it doesn't exist...

You right, you right

Great wear on the body and the finish has aged to a beautiful, nicotine-tinged yellow. The neck has some great birds eye in it, too, which I tried to capture. My only gripe is that, since this is an earlier version, the frets are comically wide and low. I don't want to spend the money on a refret nor risk doing it myself and butchering the thing , but I really, really want bigger frets...at some point in the future.

[john o]

nice '82-'83 SC-2!
i am a fan of the low wide frets of the early 80's G&L's!

[yowhatsshakin]

Nice!!

- Jos

[kwyjibo]

nice '82-'83 SC-2!
i am a fan of the low wide frets of the early 80's G&L's!

I can definitely appreciate them...they are really comfortable with chording, but not the best for my playing style (lots of lead work)...I've got a really hard touch and this is the only guitar I own/play with a maple fingerboard so I'm used to really digging my fingers in, especially for bends. I've been reminding myself to use a lighter touch with the sc-2 but sometimes I can't help it in the heat of the moment. Still love this thing to death - sounds so killer.

[Danley]

I’m a bit late here, but I recently wound up needing to add spacers under a cheap/non-G&L neck with a maxed-out rod, to gain the ability to adjust. No washers were the correct size and I wound up manually filing larger washers to fit- that worked great.

As for the low/wide fretwork - that’s one aspect (along with bullet rods & 3-bolt) where early G&L instruments feel like ‘improved/hot rod’ CBS Fenders to me; very similar to the fretwork on my ‘66 Mustang neck. It’s not my ultimate preference but it’s smooth-playing and I can work with it, very unique feel.