Help needed - SC-2 questions for my project

[psychocandy]

Hi all, I'm building a SC-2 inspired short scale guitar and I was wondering if there are any SC-2 owners (or G&L experts) who can help me out with a few details.

For this project, the scale is going to be 24". I'm using a Warmoth Mustang body and a G&L saddle lock bridge and the first thing I'm wondering is how I should figure out where to mount it onto the body. I measured 12" from the 12th fret, which is how I was told to figure that out. What I want to know is where the bridge should be mounted in relation to that measurement. Should the saddles be behind it a little bit? Or should the front of the bridge be right at the 12" mark? Does anyone know what the appropriate distance should be? Any help would be appreciated on that.

Also, another thing I was hoping to find out is what degree angle is the bridge pickup at in relation to the bridge? I've printed out a couple of mock-ups and it seems to be somewhere between 10 and 12 degrees, but if anyone happens to know exactly what it is, that would be great.

I may have some other questions along the way, but these are the first things I need to know before getting started. Thanks in advance!

[Elwood]

You'll want to place the bridge so the Low E saddle has some space behind it for adjustment when
you or someone in the future puts a heavy bottom string set on it.
On a 25 1/2 scale guitar, using a .046 Low E, I measure just about 25 3/4" speaking length for the string.
So a 24" inch scale guitar would be a little less.
The D and high E saddles measure closest to the scale .

With a saddle lock bridge , as long as you get that measurement right ( measure three times +), and you get the boss route square and centered...all else will be just where it should.

I like Darwin's method of using kite string to check for alignment during dry fits (before drilling/routing) just to be sure everything is centered etc....though I'll admit I haven't done that yet.

What kind of neck do you have ?
PIcs?

elwood

[psychocandy]

Hey, thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. So are you saying I should position the bridge so that the front edge is right around 24"? There seems to be a lot of room for the saddles to move back and forth, so I was thinking that having it a little closer than 24" would make sure there would be enough room to move the saddles forwards or backwards for intonation (hope that made sense). I was hoping I could get a definite measurement, but I'm not sure if that's possible. If I could find out how far the front edge of the bridge is in relation to the 25.5" scale on another G&L, I was thinking I could subtract the 1.5" from that and hopefully it would get me pretty close.

I'm actually sending it to someone to rout it for me, but I wanted to know exactly where the rout should be so I could just mark it on the body before I send it to him.

Oh, and the neck I'm using is a Musikraft with 7.25" radius and vintage frets. I may end up ordering one with a bigger radius eventually, but that's what I have for now. I'm also using Jumbo MFD single coil pickups. It's basically going to be a combination of a SC-2 and a Duo-Sonic II.

I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow if I have a chance to snap a few shots.

[Elwood]

. So are you saying I should position the bridge so that the front edge is right around 24"?

No, the nut to the saddle measurement (for the D and high e, after they are put at about 2/3 of the way so you can adjut a bit forward and alot backward), forget where the bridge lip is for the time being.
The total string length will be a touch more than 24" . I could measure the space between the saddle (let's use the D string,it's close to the center) to the lip on my ASAT if you want. The lip is convex so the center of the bridge will be a touch forward.
There is nothing more frustrating than a misplaced bridge, and a 32nd of an inch side to side will be noticed...so go at the job somewhat surgically and you'll be real happy with the results.
There might be some specs in the gallery for the saddle lock . Wait until you have the bridge and do a mock up and things will be more clear . ( like measuring for the boss route).


elwood

[psychocandy]

Hey, thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. So are you saying I should position the bridge so that the front edge is right around 24"? There seems to be a lot of room for the saddles to move back and forth, so I was thinking that having it a little closer than 24" would make sure there would be enough room to move the saddles forwards or backwards for intonation (hope that made sense). I was hoping I could get a definite measurement, but I'm not sure if that's possible. If I could find out how far the front edge of the bridge is in relation to the 25.5" scale on another G&L, I was thinking I could subtract the 1.5" from that and hopefully it would get me pretty close.

I'm actually sending it to someone to rout it for me, but I wanted to know exactly where the rout should be so I could just mark it on the body before I send it to him.

Oh, and the neck I'm using is a Musikraft with 7.25" radius and vintage frets. I may end up ordering one with a bigger radius eventually, but that's what I have for now. I'm also using Jumbo MFD single coil pickups. It's basically going to be a combination of a SC-2 and a Duo-Sonic II.

I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow if I have a chance to snap a few shots.

No, the nut to the saddle measurement, forget where the bridge lip is for the time being.
The total string length will be a touch more than 24" . I could measure the space between the saddle (let's use the D string,it's close to the center) to the lip on my ASAT if you want. The lip is convex so the center of the bridge will be a touch forward.
There is nothing more frustrating than a misplaced bridge, and a 32" of an inch side to side will be noticed...so go at the job somewhat surgically and you'll be real happy with the results.
There might be some specs in the gallery for the saddle lock . Wait until you have all the parts and do a mock up and things will be more clear . ( like measuring for the boss route).
I'll check back tomorrow.

elwood

Okay, yeah that makes sense. If you wanted to measure the space between the saddles and lip, that would be very helpful. Also, I posted a while back about the saddle lock and I think someone suggested routing the hole for the bridge a little larger than it had to be to allow for slight adjustments before mounting it. I thought that was a good idea, but I was wondering if that would affect the sound if it wasn't snugly fit into the body. Or would that even matter?

Also, just curious what boss route is?

[psychocandy]

Snapped a few photos this morning.

[Elwood]

Okay, yeah that makes sense. If you wanted to measure the space between the saddles and lip, that would be very helpful. Also, I posted a while back about the saddle lock and I think someone suggested routing the hole for the bridge a little larger than it had to be to allow for slight adjustments before mounting it. I thought that was a good idea, but I was wondering if that would affect the sound if it wasn't snugly fit into the body. Or would that even matter?

Also, just curious what boss route is?

I think I remember that tip, as long as it is secured well to the body I doubt it would affect the tone. I make them tight , but it does take
a little more time fitting etc.
The 'boss', is the protrusion from the bridge plate that fits into the route...so it's the 'boss route' we are discussing

I'll take some pics with a ruler for ya within the next few hours.




cool project !

elwood

[KenC]

It's basically going to be a combination of a SC-2 and a Duo-Sonic II.

Two of my favorite guitars. I look forward to seeing how it comes together.

I think I remember that tip, as long as it is secured well to the body I doubt it would affect the tone.

Isn't the whole point of a Saddle Lock (aside from the saddle lock, that is ) to have the boss up tight against the end grain?

Ken

[Elwood]

Isn't the whole point of a Saddle Lock (aside from the saddle lock, that is ) to have the boss up tight against the end grain?

Ken

Yes, absolutely . Thanks for making that clear.
The side to side alignment is what I thought was being referenced, I could see them having a little room
by design so the guys in set-up could tweek it if needed...but that's just guessing.

What Ken said ^
having the boss tight against the end grain in the route is the way to do it.


elwood

[psychocandy]

It's basically going to be a combination of a SC-2 and a Duo-Sonic II.

Two of my favorite guitars. I look forward to seeing how it comes together.

Thanks. Yeah, it should be a fun guitar once it's finished. I may start a new thread and post progress pics for anyone who's interested.

Isn't the whole point of a Saddle Lock (aside from the saddle lock, that is ) to have the boss up tight against the end grain?

Ken

Yes, absolutely . Thanks for making that clear.
The side to side alignment is what I thought was being referenced, I could see them having a little room
by design so the guys in set-up could tweek it if needed...but that's just guessing.

What Ken said ^
having the boss tight against the end grain in the route is the way to do it.


elwood

Great, thanks! So, a little wiggle room on the sides is okay, but keep in snug against the end. Got it.

[Elwood]

Great, thanks! So, a little wiggle room on the sides is okay, but keep in snug against the end. Got it.

...and I would consider a little to be 1/16"+ at the most , but get it as tight as you can...I shouldn't be advocating for slack
when it comes to guitar making

Are you going with a natural finish?

[NickHorne]

The exact best way to fit the saddle-lock has always puzzled me.
The fixing screws are countersunk into the bridge, so they will forcefully centre in their holes when tightened down. It seems hit-and-miss whether this will coincide with the boss remaining in solid contact with the wood.
Or is the boss shimmed in, with something malleable like heavy aluminum foil? I'm guessing the fixing holes are CNC'd like the rest.

[psychocandy]

Great, thanks! So, a little wiggle room on the sides is okay, but keep in snug against the end. Got it.

...and I would consider a little to be 1/16"+ at the most , but get it as tight as you can...I shouldn't be advocating for slack
when it comes to guitar making

Are you going with a natural finish?

No, I'm going to have it painted. I'm not sure on the color/finish yet, but so far I'm considering Belair Green w/competition stripes, Olympic White w/competition stripes or Red Flake. I can't really decide, though.

Here are some mock-ups. I had a hard time duplicating the red flake, but you get the idea.

Belair Green (closest I could get in Photoshop) w/competition stripes




Olympic White w/competition stripes




Red Flake

[psychocandy]

The exact best way to fit the saddle-lock has always puzzled me.
The fixing screws are countersunk into the bridge, so they will forcefully centre in their holes when tightened down. It seems hit-and-miss whether this will coincide with the boss remaining in solid contact with the wood.
Or is the boss shimmed in, with something malleable like heavy aluminum foil? I'm guessing the fixing holes are CNC'd like the rest.

That's kind of what I was hoping to find out. I don't have a G&L guitar with a saddle lock bridge to take apart, so I was hoping someone here might know. I'm sure it will work out either way, though.

[psychocandy]

I have another question about the pickups and how they're mounted to the body. Do the SC-2 pickups (Jumbo MFDs) have springs underneath the pickups (like the photo below) or are the springs on the mounting screws? I'm just wondering if I need to countersink holes in the pickup routes for the springs. If anyone knows, I'd really appreciate any info.

[Elwood]

The photo shows the way they should be , with small countersunk recesses as you say .

[psychocandy]

Great, thanks! Do the springs need to be a certain size? Just going by that photo, they look like they're around 1/2", but it's hard to tell.

[WitSok]

I really like the olympic white. There is a nice balance caused by the black pu, knobs, and stripe. Not normally a fan of white - but that is gorgeous.

[psychocandy]

I really like the olympic white. There is a nice balance caused by the black pu, knobs, and stripe. Not normally a fan of white - but that is gorgeous.

Yeah, I'm not usually a huge fan of white guitars either, but for some reason I really like the combination of the white with the black stripes, knobs, etc. too. I'm leaning towards going with that color scheme. I'd kind of like to see what a black saddle lock bridge would look like on it, too (like the ones on the Tribute Superhawk). It's a shame they don't sell those in the online store.

[psychocandy]

I'm still trying to figure out the size of the springs that go in the pickup cavities. If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it. It's kind of holding up my project at the moment. Also, if anyone can tell me where I can get them, that would great also. I'm having a hard time finding anything other than long, skinny springs for humbuckers or cone shaped springs for Strat type pickups. These seem to be a little wider and shorter than the typical humbucker mounting springs.

[Elwood]

I'm still trying to figure out the size of the springs that go in the pickup cavities. If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.

I'll open my 86 ASAT and snap a picture for ya...Should be an hour or a tad more.

elwood

[Elwood]

The springs are 7/8 " in length , 5/16 " diameter , stainless steel ?, stiff .
There is a piece of black foam stuffed in the middle (to dampen spring vibrations I imagine) .

The hole they sit in is 5/16 " deep.

Pics are on the way.
...and here they are :










I measured the bridge pickup angle , it looks like 12.5 degrees to me .





It'd be good to know where to find springs that size and material, if you find a good source, be sure to post a link .

elwood

[psychocandy]

The springs are 7/8 " in length , 5/16 " diameter , stainless steel ?, stiff .
There is a piece of black foam stuffed in the middle (to dampen spring vibrations I imagine) .

The hole they sit in is 5/16 " deep.

Pics are on the way.
...and here they are :










I measured the bridge pickup angle , it looks like 12.5 degrees to me .





It'd be good to know where to find springs that size and material, if you find a good source, be sure to post a link .

elwood

Wow, thanks a lot elwood! That was very helpful and I really appreciate all the info AND the photos! I've been searching the internet aimlessly, but so far haven't really come across any that size. Now that I know what I'm looking for, hopefully that will make it easier. I may just try going to some hardware stores and seeing what I can find. And yes, if I find some that fit that description, I'll be sure to post the info here. Thanks again!

[yowhatsshakin]

Elwood,

I think you mistyped the angle. It's 17.5 degrees, not 12.5.

- Jos

[Elwood]

Elwood,

I think you mistyped the angle. It's 17.5 degrees, not 12.5.

- Jos

OOOps..

good eye Jos.
If I ever plan a moonshot , I'll make sure your around

[psychocandy]

Hey guys, I kind of had to put this project on hold for a while after my wife and I had a baby back in January, but over the last few weeks, I've been able to make some more progress on it, so I thought I'd post an update.

Back in January, I had a guy that I met on another forum route the body for me. He did a great job. Thanks to all who helped with the suggestions on routing for the bridge. It was very helpful. Here are a few photos of the body with bridge and pickup routes.










The hardest part so far was finding springs to go underneath the pickups that were the correct size and stiffness, but thanks to Elwood, I was able to find some that I think were pretty close to what G&L uses, at least I think they are. If anyone is interested, I found them on this website: http://www.essentracomponents.com. I ended up ordering several different size springs until I found some that would work. And to be honest, I don't remember the size that I ended up using, but if anyone needs to know, I can go back and figure it out (I think).




I could never decide on a color, but since I already have a white guitar (AND a white bass), I decided to go with the green with white competition stripes. A couple of weeks ago, I sent the body to be painted and I just got this photo today of the finished paint job. It's kind of a dark surf green (or maybe a light sea foam green), and I think it turned out pretty well.




I actually ended up going in a little bit of a different direction with the pickups. I ended up ordering some P-90s made by Vintage Vibe that are specifically made to fit into the ASAT pickup covers. I know that's probably blasphemy to all the G&L players here (sorry), but since it's only a G&L-inspired project, I thought it would be allowed.

The only thing that I lack now is the neck. I was going to use one I already had, but it had a 7.25" radius and vintage frets, and I decided that I wanted a neck with a 12" radius and med. jumbo frets to go on this project, so ordered one from Musikraft a couple of weeks ago, and I'm hoping I'll get it within the next few weeks so I can finally put this thing together!

I'll try to post more updates as things progress. Hopefully it won't take another 9 months to finish it.

[Elwood]

I like the Dark Surf , you're getting mighty close

The springs look pretty close, don't forget to put a scrap of foam in the middle to keep
them from resonating.

thx for sharing the fun,
elwood

[KenC]

The project guitar is looking good!

Ken