Red Iron Amps Lil' Mo'

[bikegerm]

Hey there... I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Red Iron Amp's Lil' Mo' ? Im looking for a bedroom practice amp. Also considering a Fargenamps Fender Champion 600 with the Weber speaker. i'm playin' a ASAT Classic with Seymour Duncan 52's. http://www.redironamps.com/amplilmo.html

Randy

[Fumble fingers]

sure looks interesting !! .... I been looking at some low watt amps and haven't heard anything great yet , I'd love to hear what Louis would have to say about the Lil Mo , I've played the Clapton 5W Fender at the local GC and it didn't seem that great for 900.00 bucks , but to be fair it wasn't ideal surroundings either

[bikegerm]

My pickguard makes Louis puke but after reading the knowledge he spews I've swallowed my pride and I'm willing to hold the bucket for him..... Louis your thoughts on this amp ? Others ??

[blargfromouterspace]

Never seen the red iron amps thing, but it's very pricey for what it is, and based on that alone I'd avoid it but this line in the blurb really makes me wary. This is an outright lie -

"Play in your bedroom and still get stack dynamics/sustain!"

I've tried the Fender Champ 600 and thought it was terrible, YMMV. The Vox AC4TV is the best little amp that I've tried, comes with a decent sized speaker, can be switched down to 1/4W and is reasonably priced. I'd be interested to try the Ibanez Tube Screamer 5, a friend of mine uses the 15W version for gigs and it sounds excellent.

[meowmix]

My pickguard makes Louis puke but after reading the knowledge he spews I've swallowed my pride and I'm willing to hold the bucket for him..... Louis your thoughts on this amp ? Others ??

Louis will be back in a couple of weeks.

Does the amp have to be TUBE? When you say, 'Bedroom amp', how do you get that tube saturation tone at low volume?
Do you plan to play long hours at a time with this amp? If not, then Solid State might be a better option.

[bloodied_fingers]

Its not boutique but I'm pretty happy with my Egnater Rebel 20. I got it for a $275 on CL. You can dial the wattage from 1-20w, which doesn't change the volume but when/how the breakup happens. It also has a master volume. With the rebel you can switch/mix between 6v6 and el84 power tubes. That can also be a detriment though, because at some point you gotta replace all those tubes.

I have also tried an AC4 and it is a cool amp. I almost bought an AC4TVH (head unit version) of it. You can definitely feel the difference between its 1 and 1/4W settings.

That said, if you're looking for boutique quality tone I doubt either will really satisfy, and afaik both are PCA based amplifiers - maybe you want point-to-point wired stuff for serviceability?

Another option, if you already have a big amp, might be an attenuator taking up load from the power tubes. Even the really nice ones cost less than boutique style small amps. And then you're definitely getting the same power tube signal.

meowmix - Tube breakup at lower volume because the headroom is reduced with the lower power amp. The signal is clipping through the power tubes because the tubes don't have supply to meet the amplification needs of the signal. Does that make sense?

Lower volume is a relative term - inside a room, driving a 12" speaker, that AC4 or Rebel 20 (on any power setting) when cranked is pretty loud still. The actual volume level is very much a function of how much air is getting moved. Wattage as a volume indicator is not that great - because we have to remember the log relationship between power output and sound level. I've read that 10dB is what seems about twice as loud to human ears, but it takes a 10x power increase to get to that. (Or decrease on the subject of practice amps)

Afaik you still can't get speaker breakup at low volume. Maybe you can if you get seriously small and under-rated speakers? One thing I don't like about a lot of practice amps (in combo form) is they tend to have small speakers, which I have decided I don't really like. Maybe just a personal preference (?) but 8" speakers just don't have enough bass in them to my ear.

Sorry, that got long winded - hopefully not too off topic.

[bikegerm]

Well after talking to the builder, Paul Sanchez, and doing as much research as I could, I pulled the trigger on a Lil' Mo'. Couldn't be any happier. I'm driving a 16ohm Egnater 112 cabinet with a Celestion 80. For my apartment it's fantastic !! Warm sounds and tone with either a humbucking or single coil guitar. Mine is quiet, no noise issues at all.

At normal apartment lifestyle playing levels, it's response to tone and gain adjustments from the guitar is wonderful. It's right on the border of being too loud opened up in my apartment. It has a three position tone switch on the top, volume on the front, and a on/off toggle switch on the back.

My other amp has an effects loop that I normally play through. I've loved that path, but with the Mo' i've had to put 'em in front and she handles it great and my pedals still come to life !!

http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/GALLERY2/ma ... emId=12345

http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/GALLERY2/ma ... emId=12348

[bloodied_fingers]

Congrats. Sure looks cool - got any sound clips?

[Fumble fingers]

that thing is cool as heck Randy !! .... I could see myself getting one , I like the idea of boutique amps and that one looks easy to tweak with different tubes , I ended up getting a used Vox AC4TV from the local G & L dealer a couple weeks ago , and like mentioned , it looses bottom end switching from 4 watt to 1 watt and looses even more at 1/4 watt , it's still decent on a 1/4 watt and you start getting distortion around 1/2 volume with 1/4 watt at volume slightly more than the TV , but when playing clean my Peavey Classic 30 still sounds best low volume between the two , you just can't get distortion at low volume with the Peavey and maybe the Vox would sound better with a bigger external speaker

[bikegerm]

Well.... I've had Lil' Mo' a few weeks and I've been playing the hell out of it evenings in the apartment after work. I'm really happy with this amp. It's exactly what I was looking for. I get full rich tone from whatever guitar I plug into it. I have a G&L ASAT Classic with Seymour Duncan Alnico 52's and a Ibanez ARX-500 Artist with Seymour Duncan SH-1 neck and a SH-14 bridge humbuckers with Dimarzio volume and tone pots.

I'm not a great guitar player. I make my living as a engineer. I'm an average player but I know "tone". My Lil' Mo' drives a Egnater 16ohm 112 cabinet with a Celestion 80 that I have at my sitting at head level on a bookself next to a wall. I get great response from my tone controls on my guitars and it works great with my pedals in front of it.

Lil Mo is shipped with a Motorola 12AY7 tube. I played it two weeks with that tube to get used to it's sound. I "was" happy but "now" I'm even happier with the Telefunken 12AT7 I've replaced it with. The amp now has a little more gain, and richer lo mids & bottom end.

For people looking for a quality built amp for low level environments, ya' need to look the Red Iron way.....

Randy

[Fumble fingers]

Randy , does having volume only control bother you ??..... are you using a equalizer ?? .... I'm really interested in this amp

Eric

[bikegerm]

No... it's actually refreshing just having a volume knob, "Less is more". I use no eq, just the tone adjustment on my guitar. I'm just as happy with the sound of the amp bypassing all my pedals as I am when I use a little delay and sometimes a little chorus. With this new 12ay7 tube I really like what my Analogman "KOT" pedal adds to get a little natural overdrive with the volume level on the amp turned down. I find having just the volume control challenges me to "create" the tone thru string touch, picking, and dynamics making me a better guitar player. I think having it push a 12" speaker is alot of what helps the sound. I've never been a fan of 10" speakers and I've owned some cheap practice amps with 6" speakers and none of them provided me the fullness I'm getting with this combo.

I've got $250 in the cabinet I've had for years and done nothing with, and $450 in Lil' Mo. Some people may think that's too much cash for a "practice" amp combo. I'm used to professional audio gear and realize that sometimes you have to pay a little more for quality and "satisfaction". I'm more than satisfied with this combo and won't have to ever worry about wasting my time reselling it and looking for something else. That my friend allows me to spend that time working making money, not looking for the same gear purchase over and over again.......

Randy

[Fumble fingers]

I don't think it's bad money wise for a quality bed room type amp ..... I tried the Eric Clapton Fender at GC and for 900.00 I wasn't impressed at all , I'd keep the Vox over EC Fender , but that said the Vox is down compared to my Peavey in sound quality regardless of money , if the sound quality is not there then I keep looking

[Zippy]

Happy is as good as you can get. I sold my perfect condition '66 Fender Champ because it never sounded good to me at all. Sounds like you have a good thing.

Larry