Lunch Report - Monday 8 July

[Phooey]

I’m working in London today, and since it’s a nice day I skipped the company's cafe and headed out to a nearby Italian place that does awesome sandwiches on pizza bianca romana bread. Opted for fontina, ham, porcini mushrooms and rocket, and washed it down with an americano with an extra shot. Probably my favourite sandwich right now: if ever you're in London, Spianata is worth looking up.

So, lunch dealt with, on to guitars. I own just one G&L, a 1983 SC-2, and in four or five years of ownership it has transitioned from being little more than an indulgence of my fondness for SC wielding bands like Band of Susans and Helmet to being my guitar.

[youtube]Gzl-0i36rqU[/youtube]

I love its look and tone of course, but despite - or perhaps because of - its stripped down, no-nonsense nature, it’s been a great teacher. More than any other guitar I’ve owned, it’s shown me the value of using those volume and tone pots so many of us regard as ornamental, turning the gain down a shade, being careful where you stand when using a half-stack at full tilt.

But I was never crazy about the tremolo: I never use it, and I tend to change tunings a lot. So I’ve had an eye open for a good looking hard tail for a while without finding much... until last weekend, when this popped into my inbox.

I don’t need to tell you I’m very tempted. I don't know if the price is right, but it looks almost like new and mine, which I got for $600 about 4 years ago, was a wreck. What do you guys think?

Pedaltrain – how do you do yours?

After a years of rocking nothing more than EQ and a noise gate, I’ve recently splurged on a small selection of pedals. That opened Pandora’s box, along with my wallet, as I went on to buy a Burkey Flatliner power supply and a Pedaltrain 2 to strap it all to.

So now I’m on a mission to finish the thing off. I made up some cables (Sommer Spirit, 78 pF/m, cable fans), and I’m on the lookout for something a little better than regular cable ties to tidy up underneath. Any recommendations?

I’m also contemplating mounting ¼” sockets into the back for input/output and loop send/return. Why? Who knows, I’ve got the bug. Appreciate any tips from anyone who’s done it.

[The Black Page]

Hi phooey & good to see a new comer step up to the plate!
Breakfast of champions here,4 Marlboro lights & 3 cups of PG tips

Band width here is the pits unfortunately mate but will try & watch your vid later.
Been many moons since I ran a pedal train phooey just trying to recollect what comprised my BCB6 back in the day
From the plank I ran into a tuner,then volume,cry baby,boss compressor,not sure of the order from here sorry bud but it was a tube screamer,GE-7,dimension C & a digital delay with a boss noise gate on the end.
As far as the SC-2 is concerned like you I had a run as LR relatively new here( & still am ) & first up posted the age old desert island motif expecting an ASAT/legacy duke out.much to my surprise the SC-2 shone head & shoulders on this board as the regulars go to WMD & was the decding factor in why i jumped on the LE-2 "gravy train".suffice to say you're in very good company with the boys here on the forum bro.
Anyway great first up effort phooey love ya work champ,cheers!!

[darwinohm]

It is great too see new members post LR's. Your first is great and welcome! I just had a ham sandwich for lunch. It is hot here in Minnesota and we need a break from this heat. It seems like we are having more extremes in the weather in recent years.

I watched the video and it is neat to see pros using G&L guitars back in 1994. I didn't even know of them back then. It seems that we are getting some good dealers today that market them.

I am not into pedals much and play bass while gigging but always use a Sonic Stomp on my bass and have two 882-I maximizers for the vocals. They do really work well on our PA.

As for the SC-2 on the bay, I think it is overpriced but that is just my opinion.--Darwin

[Phooey]

@ The Black Page

Thank you for the kind words sir.

Ah, the breakfast of champions. Funny thing is I find the first cigarette of the day is the one I seem to want most and enjoy least. Same probably true of coffee (despite being British, I can't endorse or condone your use of PG Tips ).

Always appreciate the SC fanaticism around here, though it's fortunate there aren't more of us: there aren't many rare vintage guitars I can afford as it is, don't want competition driving prices up!

[Phooey]

It is great too see new members post LR's. Your first is great and welcome! I just had a ham sandwich for lunch. It is hot here in Minnesota and we need a break from this heat. It seems like we are having more extremes in the weather in recent years.

I watched the video and it is neat to see pros using G&L guitars back in 1994. I didn't even know of them back then. It seems that we are getting some good dealers today that market them.

I am not into pedals much and play bass while gigging but always use a Sonic Stomp on my bass and have two 882-I maximizers for the vocals. They do really work well on our PA.

As for the SC-2 on the bay, I think it is overpriced but that is just my opinion.--Darwin

Thank you! Hot here too... well, by our standards.

Yeah, Page Hamilton from Helmet was using SC-1 and SC-2, and occasionally an ASAT, with Helmet from, I think, 89 before moving mainly to ESP. Their bass player had an L-2000, too, and I think a BBE Sonic Maximizer... there was more in there than I realised! Band of Susans, of course, was where Page started out and they were fanatical about SCs. I think all 3 of their guitar players used them.

Glad you think the one on eBay is overpriced. That was my inclination but as I'm always looking to the US for my SC fix it's sometimes hard to get a handle on what's expensive and what isn't.

[y2kc]

How much is that doggie in the window?

I have collected pre bbe G&Ls since 1991 and currently have more than my share. The question of price comes up quite often and it always reminds me of a day I spent in Rockford Il. at " Axe In Hand ' with the owner Larry Hendrickson. I think that was his last name.
Larry has since passed but I will never forget our afternoon together. He showed me every Les Paul Jr. and Special he had that day and there were dozens. Everyone was more beautiful than the next and the the most he wanted for one was $1200.00. I couldn't even think about spending that much cash on an old guitar. His collection ranged from mint to extra minty and I just could not make it happen.

Knowing what I know now I should have given him some cash and paid it off over time but that was such big money to this poor laborer. There was no way.

Leo is gone now and the supply of clean G&L's that he had something to do with gets smaller every day.In the last two years there has been a batch of interesting vintage G&L's that have hit the market. The asking prices have been fair just like Larry's Jr.'s but the public just hasn't figured this out yet. You can wait and hope you win the lottery or find the one for you and make it happen. The prices will not go down, they will slowly rise and in a few years you will be kicking yourself for not grabbing one now.

These guitars are still not mainstream but dealers are aware of how rare they actually are. When the guys in Kalamazoo were making the the Les Paul Jr's, they were pumping them out by the hundreds every day. During the 11 years G&L was around they only produced around 25,000 guitars, including basses. Clean Pre bbe G&L's are going to be impossible to find in the next 10 years compared to most other manufactures from that era.

$1495.00 is a lot of money to spend on anything but in ten years it will seem like nothing and you will still have the guitar. These guitars are quality with a pedigree. Just my take on an old question about old guitars.

Great video!!,

y2kc

[Fumble fingers]

ratfart sure has some nice guitars on ebey .... as for price , I've seen them cheaper but not near that nice , for a "like new old guitar" the price might not be bad if you want a original Leo era beauty then this is it !! .... I sure like my new SC2 and it was a good bit cheaper than ratfart's SC2 , but for a clean original I don't think its priced too bad

pedals I have are a MXR distortion box and a BBE Sonic stomp from doing LR , also have a line 6 floor pod plus

[Fumble fingers]

I just noticed the ratfart has a 3 day return policy ... so its not a total gamble

[blargfromouterspace]

IMO, unless you're after a collectible investment guitar, I'd go for a new SC2. You'd get one with those specs for 2/3 of the price he's asking.

I don't get the "keeping-everything-crazy-neat-on-my-pedaltrain" thing - what's it all about? I've never tripped on a patch cable... Not trying to be rude, just genuinely interested! Keeping cables neat and out of the way is what gaffer tape is made to do, so I guess that'd be a good starting point.

[ellengtrgrl]

LOVE Helmet (been listening to them since their Meantime album was released). I've known since the 90s that Paige Hamilton used an SC-1 or SC-2 on "Biscuits For Smut (the Betty Album is my favorite of all the Helmet albums - now if he'd only used his G&Ls, instead of those boring ESP or PRS guitars for "Milquetoast" [my favorite song on the Betty album). I'm pleasantly surprised to find out that he also used ASATs. Ya gotta love the large MFDs!

Paige also played his G&Ls, when he played in Glenn Branca's guitar orchestras, before he formed Helmet. I wonder if he's playing his SC-1 and SC-2, in the 21st Century version of Helmet. I wouldn't mind having an SC-2 or better yet, and SC-1, but it would have to have the toploader bridge like Paige's SC-1 (and my Tribute ASAT Special Semi-Hollow) have. I'm not a big fan of twin fulcrum point vibrato bridges.

As for pedal trains - yeah, I have a few pedals, that I use on occasion (an old Morley Flanger, that I've owned since new back in 1997; a DOD 250 Overdrive pre-amp, that I use when I need to slam the amp for even more crunch, or when I'm stuck using somebody else's amp, that is distinctly lacking in the gain department; and an old early 80s Korg CHR-1 dual mode [one mode is chorus, and the other mode is phasing]). Nowadays since I'm bandless, I only use my pedals when I'm in the mood to (which isn't very often - I usually just plug into my amp, and play, switching back and forth between its clean and dirty channels). Pedals are cool for when you want a change of sound texture in your music. In general, I'm not a big fan of keeping pedals on 100% of the time. Their sound gets kind of old after after a while. I played in a band with another guitar player, who ran chorus 100% of the time. His guitar sound was pretty boring after 3 years of playing in bands with him (but he didn't like being told to take a break from running chorus all the time, so I just grinned and beared it).

[gitman001]

Hey Phooey,

Welcome aboard

I personally don't know that much about prices for early G&L stuff... My earliest is a 95 s-500. That is a beautiful example of an early SC-2, if you got the $ i would say go for it!

As far as pedal boards go, I run about 7 pedals on my board and i used zip ties to keep all the cables looking neat and tidy. If you have some pics maybe you can show us what your working with....

Scott

[louis cyfer]

i just use george l's for my pedal board, and the cables are all exact length, so i don't even need zip ties. they just stay in place. but the power cables did get zip tied on my pedal train pro. my smaller board has all velcro with 2 levels, so i used small pieces of velcro to keep the power cables in place. my big board has 30 pedals, the small one has 18. i don't use either anymore.

[zapcosongs]

- ed

[Fumble fingers]

^^^^^^ your blocking Doreen's phone number ^^^^^^ ...lol

[Phooey]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

IMO, unless you're after a collectible investment guitar, I'd go for a new SC2. You'd get one with those specs for 2/3 of the price he's asking.

I don't get the "keeping-everything-crazy-neat-on-my-pedaltrain" thing - what's it all about? I've never tripped on a patch cable... Not trying to be rude, just genuinely interested! Keeping cables neat and out of the way is what gaffer tape is made to do, so I guess that'd be a good starting point.

Not so much interested as a collector or investor. I just prefer the look of the originals, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of things with history to them (I like vintage watches and cars, too).

The neat thing: I'm not sure I get it either. As in my original post, "Why? Who knows". It certainly isn't a practical need, as you point out. Maybe it's my way of indulging a passion for craftsmanship - "finishing the back of the drawer", as Steve Jobs put it.

[Phooey]

... now if he'd only used his G&Ls, instead of those boring ESP or PRS guitars for "Milquetoast" [my favorite song on the Betty album). I'm pleasantly surprised to find out that he also used ASATs. Ya gotta love the large MFDs!

Pleased to find someone else who can quote Helmet chapter and verse here! I've a feeling he used G&Ls on recordings more than widely thought. I'd swear I can hear that sound in their later recordings... of course, maybe he just replicated that G&L sound with his EQ choices.

[LeoFThe Champion]

Welcome Phooey, Great post Y2K , I agree with what you said entirely. One of the best posts I have ever read
Anthony

[zapcosongs]

^^^^^^ your blocking Doreen's phone number ^^^^^^ ...lol

Send me a PM. Ha! - ed

[The Black Page]

^^^^^^ your blocking Doreen's phone number ^^^^^^ ...lol

Send me a PM. Ha! - ed

Make that two.. [/size]

[KenC]

I don’t need to tell you I’m very tempted. I don't know if the price is right, but it looks almost like new and mine, which I got for $600 about 4 years ago, was a wreck. What do you guys think?

I found mine two years ago at a local shop in unplayed condition (it sat in the original owner's closet for thirty years) with all of the case candy for $800. They gave me a slight break from their original asking price, but I didn't feel like I was taking advantage of them at all. Both of my SC-1s had been well played, but had their OHSCs and didn't have any mods or significant dings. Both of them were around $750 (one in 2012 and one this year).

Pedaltrain – how do you do yours?

I haven't figured out what I want yet, or how to put it together. I have alot of ground to cover between electric and upright basses (my main instruments) and electric guitar, and now getting into analog synthesizers. Most of my recent effects purchases have been Moogerfoogers. They will handle any audio signal you feed them, including frequencies too low or high to hear. The trade off for having an effect that will work with any instrument is that it takes up a lot of real estate. The other recent acquisitions were the new EHX step sequencer (to control Moogerfoogers) and a Way Huge Swollen Pickle, which also works beautifully with guitars, basses and synths.

As far as setting it all up, I deal with a tangle of AC adapters and patch cables. I picked up a used patch bay recently, and intend to build a case for it. That would let me route control voltages between the Moogerfoogers without having to fumble with the back panel of jacks.

I'm not currently playing out, but if I had a gig tomorrow on electric bass I would definitely bring a compressor (Carl Martin) and probably a Moog Lowpass Filter. Anything else would depend on the needs of the set list. Between the compressor and filter I would be able to sculpt a wonderful fundamental bass tone.

Ken