Lunch Report for Wednesday, June 5, 2013

[Boogie Bill]

Interesting responses to Monday's LR. Thanks!

Ever had a guitar that was LESS than what its specs might indicate it would be? Two of mine come to mind...a Peavey Horizon II that I bought new in the '90s, and the Gibson ES-150DCN I bought in the early '70s. Both guitars were beautiful, but never performed to expectations. The 150DCN had major problems with intonation and tuning stability, and feedback. The Peavey was one of the best made guitars I've ever owned, but the pickups, tone circuit, ergonomics, and the short scale neck all kept it from being the guitar of my dreams. It had a great vibrato, similar to the DF.

And I have a few that have exceeded expectations too. My original Music Man Sabre was mind blowing. I was able to trade the 150DCN for it. Took a huge loss and could not have been happier. Likewise with my first Legacy. I was expecting a simple strat clone to replace my '60, and got so much more. Great value.

And all my imports...Takamine, Ibanez and Danelectro, have been pretty phenomenal too.


What say you?

Bill

[blargfromouterspace]

The silver-sparkle ASAT I bought last year wasn't up to snuff. I was glad to see the back of that one. Funnily, its the only G&L I've bought that I had a chance to play beforehand! I think the finish fooled me into thinking it was better than it was...

The SC2 has exceeded my expectations and by quite a margin, too. Same goes for Maton (a local Melbourne-based company) electrics.

[KenC]

Only one comes to mind for me. It was a mid-90s ASAT I ordered used from a major chain. Something about that guitar just felt heavy and stiff to me, so it went right back to the store.

Ken

[Philby]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for jumping in again.

While I'm convinced that ASAT's are a genuine improvement over Telecasters, I'm less convinced that G&L S-type guitars represent much improvement over a good Strat.

A case in point is my mid-90's S-500 which, if you look at the specs, promises much. The expander switch gives 2 extra pickup combinations. Cool. The MFD's are supposed to add extra body while retaining a certain strattiness. Excellent. Locking tuners as standard. Fantastic.

In reality it is stiff and heavy like Ken's returned ASAT. The small MFD's have no mojo either. I don't know if it's this particular guitar, or a property of the small MFD's in general. I really like the DF bridge on it, and the finish and appearance are top notch. The faux tele pickup combination is kinda cool, but I'm not in love with the PTB circuit. I can dial in plenty of different tones, but I don't like any of them much. In the end I keep her 'cos she looks so purty. I keep meaning to experiment with different pickups and standard strat wiring, but for all the effort I should just move her on. Or hang her on the wall as decoration.

I'm never disappointed with my MIK Washburn J-9. It is a beautiful instrument. Since buying the J-9, Gibson 335's don't give me any GAS whatsover. My Tribute ASAT's are far better guitars than the purchase price would indicate too. And Jamie is spot on with the Maton electric guitars. Every one I've picked up has felt superb. Can't believe I don't own one. But there's still time.......

[supereiv]

I had a PRS CE 24 back in the 90's, all bells and whistle, it was a maple bolt-on neck, supposedly closer to a strat.
I never bonded with that guitar, it was heavy, not responsive, not versatile at all (at least to me).
My first G&L, a 94 Legacy special, was heavy too, not particularly bad sounding, but I let it go.

The S-500 deluxe that just arrived and the Classic S semi hollow (just retrofitted with MFD) are just stellar guitars, they even may cure my GAS (ok...for a while )

[Boogie Bill]

I think Tommy Emanuel plays a Maton guitar. Heard good things about them, but I've never seen one.

I'm surprised to read that a few of you have had "meh" experiences with G&Ls. Mine have all felt special in my hands and produced some great tones.

Over the years I've learned that, while I usually set up my guitars (say my Les Pauls) exactly the same, I have a few that demand to be treated differently. I usually use 10s....these guitars are happier with a 9-46 set. One of my Legacys drove me nuts and buzzed like crazy...until I set the neck almost perfectly flat with no relief...usually I have a little more relief since I hit the strings hard.

And with acoustics I've had some success in hearing whether a guitar is just dead sounding and a dog...or a frog princess that just needs a kiss and a set of new strings. I've got a couple that at first strum weren't really special at all, but I heard and felt something in there and they have become wonderful guitars.

Is it all in the metrics? Is it magic....or just ESP?

Bill, aka " The Guitar Whisperer"

[LeoFThe Champion]

Thanks Boogie Bill,
I just wanted to say Tim , one of the best answers you will ever find . I think you have spoken with both intelligence and experience.
Philby , I respectfully disagree . The S-500 is most definitely an improvement of a Stratocaster. Guitar comparison depends on the years. I believe if you take any old G&L and match it against the glory years Strat then the Strat wins. The timber Fender used in the 50's was generally ancient growth. this changed for Fender and some of their timber was rubbish in the 70's and 80's.
If you are ever in Brisbane I'll show you a 1982 Mahogany body S-500 that will knock off your socks .
Anthony

[Philby]

Thanks Boogie Bill,
Philby , I respectfully disagree . The S-500 is most definitely an improvement of a Stratocaster. Guitar comparison depends on the years. I believe if you take any old G&L and match it against the glory years Strat then the Strat wins. The timber Fender used in the 50's was generally ancient growth. this changed for Fender and some of their timber was rubbish in the 70's and 80's.
If you are ever in Brisbane I'll show you a 1982 Mahogany body S-500 that will knock off your socks .
Anthony

And if you're ever in Melbourne I'll show you a 1985 MIJ strat that will knock your socks off

I understand where you're coming from Anthony, but I didn't explain myself very well. The way I see it, production items, including guitars, follow a distribution called a Gaussian (bell shaped) curve. Most guitars will be average, there will be some above average and some below average. There will be even fewer exceptional instruments and a few dogs too. The job of quality control is to catch the dogs and stop them getting out.

My S-500 is probably in the below average to dog category, while yours could be one of the exceptional ones. The Fender bell curve will look similar to the G&L curve, but I'm guessing the quality of a G&L 'average' is better than the quality of a Fender 'average'. But I still stand by my statement that a Legacy or S-500 is not greatly better than a strat every time. There are good and bad examples of all of them. The same is probably true of ASAT's and Telecasters, but I've yet to play a Telecaster that I prefer over an ASAT. Statistics say that situation would probably change if I played enough of each.

Throw into the mix that my definition of 'good' might be completely different to yours, then everything is reduced to opinion. And I don't discount the possibility that I'm the problem and 9 outta 10 people would like my S-500