Lunch Report- May 07-2013

[darwinohm]

I just got back from out of town for a day of working on the Rune Stone. There is no lunch report so I am going to bring up a topic that will make some of you shudder. I had a Ham sandwich for lunch, a quick lunch as were were limited in our project time.

The mortal sin question is: "would you paint or repaint a G&L"??? Here is the situation. I have an Equatorial Mahogany Bluesboy with the satin finish. I originally wanted a Gloss finish but was told it would only be available in the Satin. I like it but was blown away buy the gloss Equatorial I just got a month ago. It is striking in my opinion. We all know that it is a sin to paint a vintage Fender. I never understood this as a beat up classic car isn't worth much but vintage guitars are fine if they are rats. The G&Ls are not vintage as such meaning older that 70s so what would be the consequences of painting this Satin Bluesboy with a high gloss finish? I have done a lot of paint work and it would be perfect or I wouldn't try it. Do you think that it affect the value either way? I tend to believe that if I wanted to sell, it would be easier to sell. It will probably never be sold as long as I am alive but when I look at the two of them on the wall, the gloss one is WOW! Also what would be the possibility of ordering one without body paint and painting it the way you wanted. Let me have your thoughts. I actually like Shell Pink.

The second question has to do with being current on things. I have had a shaky week as I was wrong on Louis guitar body blowout and I misspelled the name of the Hellecasters band last night. Suave Eddy asked a great question last night. How could a guy who spent a lifetime in the computer industry not have high speed internet?? That is a fair question. When I was no longer in the computer industry I really checked out. I also checked out from the music industry in the late seventies and eighties as I thought it was mostly garbage, Disco this and Disco that. You heard one, you heard them all. Anyway, I apparently was brought back to my senses in 1999 when our original band reunited. It has been the best thing that ever happened.I am still in a rut musically but love it. The best thing in the world for mental health is to confess things on the forum. Ginny doesn't see it so I am safe. So the question is: Any hangups out there?? Are you remiss sometimes?? One more tidbit is that when I type in an Ii on my keyboard I usually get two of them. Just checking for that makes me miss a lot of other things. Spell check is great! I hate to give up on this keyboard!@!@!!!-- Darwin

[louis cyfer]

there is nothing wrong with that. if it is done to factory look gloss, no one will even know the difference. could you simply polish the satin finish? fred would probably be able to give you some pointers.

[darwinohm]

The Satin is very thin and doesn't fill the grain. I know what to do and could even use a transparent color over this and enhance the grain as the color would be deeper where the grain is filled. I did that to a 63 fender Strat for a guy in 1967 and it was awesome. I'll bet he isn't happy now!-- Darwin

[louis cyfer]

i would still consult fred, but it sounds good to me.
i think you could still find some more good music, there are a lot of great players out there. there were in the 80's as well,, you just listened to the top 40 stuff and formed your opinion based on that. if you did that today, and based it on diddy, kanye west, katy perry, justin bieber, you'd think the same thing. i do try to empathize with people who make mistakes or are wrong sometimes. i try to imagine what that must feel like

[The Black Page]

Thanks for stepping up to the plate today bud.
Regarding repaints I guess that gets Louis & I back on the player-collector bent again
If you're not planning to sell it mate why the heck not! It's YOU that you have to please in this instance no one else so I say go for it big guy..

I noticed the spell check had my spelling of the hellecasters amiss yesterday as well so you're not Robinson Crusoe in that department either I'm afraid though I should have known better having jumped on the boys 20 years ago!

I too was a bit surprised you were still on archaic hook up vi-sar-vi your net until recently bro.i gather your Mac wouldnt be on mountain lion either,if I remember correctly you said you were using pro tools 6 or 7

Regarding mind states,being stationed on a base on the edge of Helmand province has it's moments as some could imagine.my second night on watch I was within the blast radius of a 107 & the alarm never picked it up either.it was not a very nice experience I spent the next 2 weeks lying on my bed staring down my own mortality & that realization that all this could end at any time is a demon that still haunts me occasionally.saying that though at least I'm inside the wire unlike the REAL heroes we keep 3 hots & a cot up too who put it all on the line might after night to make sure the best the other crowd can do is throw speculators in from a few clicks away.anyway I've made my bed now & these colours don't run & all goin well in a couple of years ill be back on the ranch twangin that WR like a mofo & this god forsaken place will be but a memory

[KenC]

The mortal sin question is: "would you paint or repaint a G&L"??? <snip> Let me have your thoughts. I actually like Shell Pink.

I'm usually one of the first to speak out against modding G&Ls, but in your case I think it makes sense. If you are sure of getting factory-quality results, do it and get the maximum enjoyment out of the instrument. Otherwise you will always feel like that one is second best. I would also look at it from a perspective of relative value. Would you lose more money on reselling it sometime down the road with the refinished gloss coat, or by selling it at market value now and buying a new glossy one?

I will be refinishing an '82 L-1000 at some point in the near future. I will paint an MIM Fender Duo Sonic first as a test piece, and then refine my skills as needed on scrap wood. I'm all over the place on ideas for the L-1000's eventual color. One one hand I would like to stay true to the original color selections (this one was black before a prior owner stripped it). I'm thinking of going with something non-standard or not period-correct for G&L. Coral or Seafoam Green are definite possibilities at this point. Shell Pink could also be nice. If all goes well, I will definitely consider rescuing other abused G&Ls in the future.

there were in the 80's as well,, you just listened to the top 40 stuff and formed your opinion based on that.

+1. A couple of months ago while I was waiting for an inbound '82 SC-1, I browsed through list of hit records from that year to pick some for breaking in the new guitar properly. For all of my fond memories of music in the early 80s (when I started playing), I had completely forgotten how lousy Top 40 radio was back then. The really good stuff that was coming out back then never hit the radio until years later, if at all.

.anyway I've made my bed now & these colours don't run & all goin well in a couple of years ill be back on the ranch twangin that WR like a mofo & this god forsaken place will be but a memory

I felt the same way escorting oil tankers out of the Persian Gulf in '91. I never thought that was going to end. The absolute low point of that deployment was an incredibly vivid dream about browsing in a record shop back home in Long Beach. In the middle of the dream I told my wife that I couldn't believe the deployment was over and I was back home...at which point I realized it was just a dream and I still had a couple of months of patrolling and an Indian/Pacific Ocean transit ahead of me. Twenty-two years later I can still remember waking up from that dream and feeling like I'd never get home. Anyway, time will pass and that WR will sound a little bit better with every hour of playing you put on it between now and the trip home.

It's strange looking back on that time now. The shooting was over, but mines were still floating around our patrol sectors and the oil fields were still burning. I remember that we all whined and griped non-stop about the 120+ degree Fahrenheit daytime temperatures, the stench of the fires and dead sheep floating past us all day, the constant vigilance for mines in the daylight and the locals' fishing boats at night (which rarely had lights on above deck, and didn't show up on radar), and having nothing but chicken wings and drumsticks for breakfast, lunch and dinner for weeks on end (I'm still not completely convinced it wasn't seagull). Somehow I just can't really recall how unpleasant and frustrating all of that truly was at the time. Twangin' like a mofo did the trick for me...

Ken

[The Black Page]

I felt the same way escorting oil tankers out of the Persian Gulf in '91. I never thought that was going to end. The absolute low point of that deployment was an incredibly vivid dream about browsing in a record shop back home in Long Beach. In the middle of the dream I told my wife that I couldn't believe the deployment was over and I was back home...at which point I realized it was just a dream and I still had a couple of months of patrolling and an Indian/Pacific Ocean transit ahead of me. Twenty-two years later I can still remember waking up from that dream and feeling like I'd never get home. Anyway, time will pass and that WR will sound a little bit better with every hour of playing you put on it between now and the trip home.

It's strange looking back on that time now. The shooting was over, but mines were still floating around our patrol sectors and the oil fields were still burning. I remember that we all whined and griped non-stop about the 120+ degree Fahrenheit daytime temperatures, the stench of the fires and dead sheep floating past us all day, the constant vigilance for mines in the daylight and the locals' fishing boats at night (which rarely had lights on above deck, and didn't show up on radar), and having nothing but chicken wings and drumsticks for breakfast, lunch and dinner for weeks on end (I'm still not completely convinced it wasn't seagull). Somehow I just can't really recall how unpleasant and frustrating all of that truly was at the time. Twangin' like a mofo did the trick for me...

Ken

Thanks heaps for this ken.i know im not alone here just dont hurt to hear it now & then.anyway nuff said mate...
On a lighter note bro what music/guitarists were you listening to in the early 80's? I was all Gary Moore,randy rhoads,George lynch & co.yngwie had done the alcatrazz album which I still think is his best.just some absolutely divine moments on that(& he was only 19 year old! ) but after rising force his playing all but lost me.Am I the only one that thinks that?

[blargfromouterspace]

If thats what you want then go for it. I'd imagine that it would negatively affect the value. It seems to me that changing anything from 'factory' on guitars reduces their value on the used market, even if they improve on the original

[astutzmann]

Darwin:

I say go for it, you will do a fantastic job on the finish and you'll be much happier after. IF it affects the resale value of the guitar, who cares. You probably won't sell it and if you do, you lose a couple of bucks, doesn't matter. Its only one guitar, you have more, many more.

When I "checked out" of the computer industry in 2004, I went more technical in my private life, but it was just for my own knowledge, got into building networks, servers, firewalls, home theaters, smart homes, etc, but it was a hobby. I used it as training, so that when we bought our last home, which we gutted, I could put all that technology into it. Was it worth it? Money wise no, but I had fun and learned something.

If only I could put that much time and interest into my guitar practicing, ha...

One day at work, I was walking behind a couple of older gentlemen who I believe were partners in a large law firm.....the one guy says to the other, "you know, I'm at an age where I'm old enough that I'm becoming a curmudgeon and young enough to know that I am one"

Always loved that saying.

That's how I'm starting to feel as I get older, getting "past it", what ever "it" is and knowing that I am, ha.

You are doing great Darwin, young at heart man! Good for you to follow you passion when you "checked out"

[willross]

You ARE the rune stone man! Does Brown Guitars paint? I'd get a price from them and see where it falls. As for forgetfulness, I forgot to post here all week! Where am I!!!


Cheers,

Will

[helle-man]

Here's a WR that I had Mac Whiteside strip the finish off and "torch" a little.

What I found was that the resonance increased a lot more without all those layers of polyurethane smothering the tone.

This has been one of my favorite guitars the last 4 years. Lots of tone. Maybe it'll lose value because of being refinished, but I don't care. I like it better than the original chocolate color.
Will



It's called "Bill" in memory of our pal Bill Herzog who died 4 years ago. That's a picture of Bill peeking out of the F hole.

[darwinohm]

Thanks to all for your ideas on refinishing. I have to admit I am reluctant to do any thing with this Bluesboy as it is probably the only Alnico out there. The other thing I am reminded of is Will Rays comment about his WR becoming more resonant after removing the thick polyurethane. This Blues boy is very resonant and live. The wood is also spectacular. WR, thanks for sharing the pictures of your custom and what a tribute to your friend, Bill Herzog.

To those who had comments on checking out sometimes, it was such a relief to me when I was laid off after 37 years with the same company. My whole group was cut. The company was struggling and it was a matter of time. I had a substantial severance package and it gave me time to regroup at the age of 59. I realized that I wanted to be in charge of myself and that is what Ii did. I believe that those of you who have been successful in the music industry are so lucky as it must be a passion and rest of us would dream of doing that, but in the end, it could become a "job" also. Anyway, I have been lucky and I appreciate it!

I certainly am not on the latest revision of MAC and am on 10.4.11. I am also on Pro Tools 7.3 and they do what I need very well. I am not in the music production business but just like to record. To me, the latest is not always the best. The high speed internet is sweet though!

Willross, The Rune Stone is alive and well. It is a genuine medieval artifact and we are learning a lot more about who may have carved it and why. Stay Tuned on that, more to come!

Thanks all for you participation and have a great day. I am thinking about a Cigar Box guitar with a WR bender!-- Darwin

[sirmyghin]

Do whatever with the guitar, and don't worry about the cost/value. Value is irrelevant unless you want a career as an instrument flipper. I'm a player and do anything necessary to get an instrument exactly where I want it though.

I occasionally have periods where I am not remiss, more than anything. I have a funny habit of remembering everything without my wife being present too, this annoys her greatly.

[darwinohm]

Kyle, you are right. It is sweet as it is and I am always thinking about new project. I have some old ones I should finish up first. Your sharp mind keeps her on her toes! -- Darwin

[The Black Page]

This I found another ingenious concoction of yours will..



Dayum...

What's the low down on these sensei?



About 300 produced in total,but how many colour variations were there? I think I've seen 5-6 to date.
Actually mate if you get the time one day I think many of us here would like to see a WR porn section displaying your most prized possessions
Cheers..

[Fumble fingers]

Here's a WR that I had Mac Whiteside strip the finish off and "torch" a little.

What I found was that the resonance increased a lot more without all those layers of polyurethane smothering the tone.

This has been one of my favorite guitars the last 4 years. Lots of tone. Maybe it'll lose value because of being refinished, but I don't care. I like it better than the original chocolate color.
Will



It's called "Bill" in memory of our pal Bill Herzog who died 4 years ago. That's a picture of Bill peeking out of the F hole.

in your casr Will , I think the value of the guitar just went up


Darwin , if you don't like it now , I'm sure it will be bad azz when you refurbish it , do it up like you want

this web site is total KICK ASS !!! ..... I don't have a lot to offer on the Lunch reports but I sure do enjoy reading what you guy's post !!

Eric

[darwinohm]

Eric, this site does come up with unexpected stuff all the time. That is what is nice about the open forum. Anyone can jump in and I would suggest that you hit us with something. You might be surprised in what shows up in the answers. Will Ray gave us a nice surprise on this thread with the pictures of one of his guitars. Back in the old days someone had to be nominated to be the lunch reporter. With the new format you can volunteer when Craig is looking for volunteers. There are some neat pedals given when you are lunch reporter. I especially enjoy the new members posting. It gives us a perspective on things that we may not have heard before. All you have to do is post a picture of a cool guitar and ask questions and you are on the way! Thanks for participating Eric!

I think Will got us started here with some porn. He has shown a spectacular WR model. Here is one of my favorites and I have two Z3's. For those of you who have never played one, you are missing out. Here is a Bigsby equipped Z-3. I haven't shown it for a long time.





-- Darwin

[Fumble fingers]

if I knew how to store and post pict's I would already started a NGD thread to show off my new Legacy

[darwinohm]

Eric, I think I edited my post after you replied. I added some photos. If you want to post photos, we can tell you what I do. I have a free account on photobucket and upload the photo from my computer to there. Set up a free photo hosting account and we will help you get started.-- Darwin

[Fumble fingers]

absolutly beautiful !! ..... the Bigsby look so sweet on there , I gotta admit I been gassing for some Z-coils ever since Will said they are like a bucking bronco , when you get throwed off you gotta get right back on and you will be rewarded with a nice ride ..lol ..... theres a beauty Comanche on the local CL next town over for 700.00 , if I could get away with it I would pull the trigger right now

[Craig]

Eric, I think I edited my post after you replied. I added some photos. If you want to post photos, we can tell you what I do. I have a free account on photobucket and upload the photo from my computer to there. Set up a free photo hosting account and we will help you get started.-- Darwin

if I knew how to store and post pict's I would already started a NGD thread to show off my new Legacy

I recently updated the Tutorial: Posting photos and it now contains
the list of steps to post an inline photo here. Please do read it and try it out.

Hope this helps.

[KenC]

if I knew how to store and post pict's I would already started a NGD thread to show off my new Legacy

I've been looking for that thread every night for the past week. I was afraid something wasn't good about the guitar. As Darwin said, just open a Photobucket account (it's free) and upload the pics. Pasting them into a thread here is just a matter of two or three mouse clicks.

Ken

[Fumble fingers]

the Legacy is awesome Ken , thanks for asking !!... I owe the boy's of G&L some beer or a good dinner .... tried to get my college daughter to post picts last saturday but with the grand kids moving to Alsaka the guitar picts took a back seat .... I'm going to try and get a decent camera and get the ball rolling soon

[KenC]

On a lighter note bro what music/guitarists were you listening to in the early 80's? I was all Gary Moore,randy rhoads,George lynch & co.yngwie had done the alcatrazz album which I still think is his best.just some absolutely divine moments on that(& he was only 19 year old! ) but after rising force his playing all but lost me.Am I the only one that thinks that?

I never went the guitar god route. I was really into Led Zeppelin in high school (I graduated in '83), but I'm mainly a bass player and spent that time learning John Paul Jones's lines instead of Jimmy Page's leads. I was also into the Stones at that point.

Right around graduation I started listening to punk and especially "post punk" bands. The biggest influences on my bass playing back then were the first couple of Public Image Limited albums and Joy Division/New Order, where the bassists really played lead. I was also big into the Psychedelic Furs first couple of albums. From your corner of the world, my friends and I just about wore out The Church's Of Skins and Hearts...

A couple of days ago you asked about Zappa fans. My sisters played his early stuff non-stop when I was very young. Last winter I started with Freak Out and began working my way through all of his albums in order. Uncle Meat will be next in line. Now my kids are hearing bits and pieces in the car, and the torch is being passed.

Ken

[Fred Finisher]

Darwin,
Allow me to chime in if it isn't too late to put in my 2 cents. The guitar in question sounds like it is sealed with a couple of coats of finish without the benefit of paste wood filler. In order to fill the grain properly, it would take several more coats which could affect the tone of the guitar. It would be better to sand off or strip the existing finish and properly fill it with paste wood filler before you apply the sealer so that you can minimize the amount of finish needed to achieve a smooth surface. It sounds like you have enough experience to handle the spraying and polishing so the trick would be to keep the dry film to a minimum so as not to create a thick finish when you are done. Even the high solids finishes being used today can be done this way if you take a few extra steps to make sure the build is smooth but thin.
Normally I would be the first to tell you not to refinish a guitar but you have to ask yourself, what are the chances that this guitar will someday be a valuable collectors item? If so, what would the diminished value be? Most of the time the answer would be a couple of hundred bucks so why wouldn't you make it look and play the way you want it to instead of settling for it being less than what you want just because it might make it worth less?
As far as your second question goes, the reason a guitar company can't sell an unfinished guitar is because they have no control over how it will be stored etc. Trying to get a piece of wood all the way through the production process without cracking
( Especially in So.Cal. ) requires quite a bit of caution especially during Santa Ana wind conditions. They would have to offer them without a warranty and people would still complain when their new guitar showed up cracked. They would also have to be indelibly marked so that any future owners would be able to identify them as after market finished. Otherwise, some less than quality finishes can be passed off as factory done and the company could end up with a black eye when it fails in some way.

Craig,
Thanks to you even I was able to post a pic the other night. I copied the posting pics for dummies ( My words, not yours )
from one of the threads and I actually did it on the first try. Thanks!
KenC,
I suggest you find a copy of Shut Up and Play Your Guitar. This was put out several years ago and is a four CD set. It covers some great solos from several years of Zappa recordings. There are several excellent musicians included.

[darwinohm]

Thanks for your input Fred. Yes, this has a sealer and the grain has no filler. It is very resonant and I would risk loosing that. The grain would have to filled somehow and no matter how it is done it will affect the sustain and tone. You have some very good points. even if one were to use nitro it would still need a filler. It is unique and a sweet one at that. I am just a gloss fan. I also understand why G&L could not sell an unfinished body. As always Fred, we really appreciate your insight!-- Darwin

[The Black Page]

-- Darwin

What's the bigsby like on this wee morsel Darwin stay in ok for you bud? Been about 25 I reckon since I've been on one of those
Thanks for sharing mate,will never tire of drooling over other players planks..

On a lighter note bro what music/guitarists were you listening to in the early 80's? I was all Gary Moore,randy rhoads,George lynch & co.yngwie had done the alcatrazz album which I still think is his best.just some absolutely divine moments on that(& he was only 19 year old! ) but after rising force his playing all but lost me.Am I the only one that thinks that?

I never went the guitar god route. I was really into Led Zeppelin in high school (I graduated in '83), but I'm mainly a bass player and spent that time learning John Paul Jones's lines instead of Jimmy Page's leads. I was also into the Stones at that point.

Right around graduation I started listening to punk and especially "post punk" bands. The biggest influences on my bass playing back then were the first couple of Public Image Limited albums and Joy Division/New Order, where the bassists really played lead. I was also big into the Psychedelic Furs first couple of albums. From your corner of the world, my friends and I just about wore out The Church's Of Skins and Hearts...

A couple of days ago you asked about Zappa fans. My sisters played his early stuff non-stop when I was very young. Last winter I started with Freak Out and began working my way through all of his albums in order. Uncle Meat will be next in line. Now my kids are hearing bits and pieces in the car, and the torch is being passed.

Ken

Class of '83 of here too ken.funny you mention jimmy page,back then in my home town thats all every one else was listening too along with EVH,for obvious reasons I think that's why I skirted round them cats growing up & gravitated more towards the cult or fringe players until they made it or become mainstream.
I was never much on PIL (got the album vai played on though ) but really dug joy division,new order & obviously the church.
As far as Zappa goes his fan club is almost as diverse & passionate as us lot here with G & L's I love his 80-88 era personally,his bands were just sooooo good.i really enjoyed stuff like the yellow shark as well,pure genius.this version of my handle here is just one of my fave all time compositions of all time.the band is so on..

[youtube]FFygTTtA63Q[/youtube]


This another..

[youtube]Gr3y2MUdq7U[/youtube]

[darwinohm]

TBP, this one holds tune very well. If a Bigsby is mounted correctly with the correct bridge it should not have tuning issues. At first I found this one didn't always return to pitch when the bar was raised but that has been resolved and that is making sure the bridge pins are free and not binding. I like using Jazzmaster bridges with Bigsbys but they have different issues especially if you are a hard picker. This is one sweet G&L and will not be leaving here.-- Darwin

[louis cyfer]

ray, i am gonna ask ron if he indeed endorses that wood.

[The Black Page]

ray, i am gonna ask ron if he indeed endorses that wood.

Lmao mate ,wouldn't surprise me at all if you had an inside rail here as well
On a more serious note though big guy I think if the Ron was our type of plank spanker he would give Darwin a big thumbs up on this one as opposed to obligatory other

TBP, this one holds tune very well. If a Bigsby is mounted correctly with the correct bridge it should not have tuning issues. At first I found this one didn't always return to pitch when the bar was raised but that has been resolved and that is making sure the bridge pins are free and not binding. I like using Jazzmaster bridges with Bigsbys but they have different issues especially if you are a hard picker. This is one sweet G&L and will not be leaving here.-- Darwin

Good to hear you've got it tweaked it right bud,they seem a bit of a mixed bag the bigsby.the 2 I had a wail on weren't much fun.saying though they're not exactly designed to play the attitude song on
Gorgeous plank mate,can see full why she's going nowhere..

[louis cyfer]

ray, i am gonna ask ron if he indeed endorses that wood.

Lmao mate ,wouldn't surprise me at all if you had an inside rail here as well
On a more serious note though big guy I think if the Ron was our type of plank spanker he would give Darwin a big thumbs up on this one as opposed to obligatory other

TBP, this one holds tune very well. If a Bigsby is mounted correctly with the correct bridge it should not have tuning issues. At first I found this one didn't always return to pitch when the bar was raised but that has been resolved and that is making sure the bridge pins are free and not binding. I like using Jazzmaster bridges with Bigsbys but they have different issues especially if you are a hard picker. This is one sweet G&L and will not be leaving here.-- Darwin

Good to hear you've got it tweaked it right bud,they seem a bit of a mixed bag the bigsby.the 2 I had a wail on weren't much fun.saying though they're not exactly designed to play the attitude song on
Gorgeous plank mate,can see full why she's going nowhere..

i see him often enough in hollywood. he frequents the rainbow quite a bit. i used to work there. of course i preferred to hang out with the female pornstars, it's full of those too.

[The Black Page]

i see him often enough in hollywood. he frequents the rainbow quite a bit. i used to work there. of course i preferred to hang out with the female pornstars, it's full of those too.

Would I be correct in assuming there's a typo in your last sentence pertaining to female porn stars big guy?