LR-06-05-2013 "the culture of critique"

[The Black Page]

Greets guys,
ill step up to the plate today seeing as my last R & R ended me one day short on official duties a few months back.
Lunch today will be two hamburgers(being an Aussie with beet root of course ) but ill digress back to the philippino theme I kept throughout my first sojourn as LR & show y'all this wee morsel myself & what equated to basically a small platoon consumed just prior to my flight back to the Stan..



It's known as "lechon baboy" in the Philippines, & that poor bloke in the background not only slayed the beast for us but then proceeded to slowly turn it over hot coals for about half a day! All for the "exorbitant" price of about 12 bucks US.we should be so lucky ah...

DISCLAIMER:my utmost apologies if I have offended any GENUINE practitioners of the Muslim faith with this taboo item.as for any Wahhabi cats that maybe lurking though,read em & weep

Some may think it amiss the questions I'm about to pose to you my brethren,especially after recently acquiring an instrument that could almost be deemed exalted! just perusing back through the board & catching up some the last few nights on what I've missed since back on watch i did run across a few,well not gripes,but points of interest I'd like to get y'all opinions on if I may.
There will be no "non" G & L topic in today's LR,there will however be more than one query on point as per the normal status quo..

NECK RADIUS'/SCALE LENGTHS/WIDTHS ET AL..

Considering the near criminal prices we're all paying for these babies it's quite justifiable from G & L's view point to only offer 2 basic variants.a 7-1/2 & 12" deck.if left with only 2 options from a business standpoint I'm sure most us here would probably concur with the choices the company has made as well.however if a buyer was to be willing to shell out his hard earned on a custom build with no expense spared do you think that G & L should be more flexible in this department?
I found it a little odd with the options we have with the back of the neck(slim C's & so on) & so little on the front end.personally i would like to see things like a 9"-14" compound radius available on legacys,ASATs & so on & even a 16" variant on say an invader,SC-2,fallout or even a fiorano,which brings me to my next question...

TRIBUTE UPGRADES..
2 recent releases that caught my eye thanks to our fearless leader Craig a while back was the ascari & fiorano models.these planks are I'm led to believe from Leo's own blueprints yet are only available with what some would say budget hardware & at a price where a guy should be wearing a balaclava!
Again I pose the question ladies & gentlemen of the jury..should a buyer if willing to pay the extra be granted access to all the bells & whistles afforded the US variants & propell models of this ilk to a more prestigious standing?
These two models in particular the fiorano are screaming for it IMO.a world class G & L 2 octave neck option with all the trimmings.

FACTORY FINISHES...
I recently stumbled upon a conundrum drafting up a dream legacy on the builder the other week & have not long read a post by I think Louis? Anyway its pertaining to certain color variants available only to certain models.my problem from memory was i was drafting a full blown light tan birds eye maple variant to compliment the darker bacci burst WR,similar visually to regular here Elwood's avatar.but was only offered a lemon drop finish,yet could get a butterscotch on I think a 500?
I'm not sure of Louis' scenario sorry but I got the impression from his post that this was a game changer for him.
Many of us have exchanged with Louis in the past (at 2600 posts I'm sure we have! LOL) & most here would consider him a bit more switched on than a bedroom warrior whose got a couple of samicks & an onyx!
So I pose you this my siblings in humanity...
Should all color variants be available on all US builds if the customer is willing to fork out?

I'm sure there is VALID reasons for these 3 questions & being relatively new here I may have posted incorrect information too.anyway thats where you boys come in

My final question is semi G & L related & again a very old motif just any contributions on this one will be greatly appreciated & save me some leg work..

BBE PEDALS...

This being my 5th & final LR I am now eligible for a box & have been milling over the sonic stomp,due largely to a recently acquired HD300 that has no graphic in it hence no easy access to the much lauded 80Hz rumble.
To all past LR's here what stomp did you chose after your call of duty & "why" did you go the direction you did?

In closing it's always a pleasure exchanging with you guys here.ive learnt so much in a short while & would like to thank each & every one of you for the time,advice & courtesy shown me during my tenure here to date.
Looking forward to your responses.
Cheers...

[louis cyfer]

the finish i wanted was the nena honey ale, and it is a special release finish. the guitars in that release do not have the options i want, and the guitar that would have what i want can't get that finish. makes no sense to me, but that is the way they roll. i understand if special woods would not be available, as the release was limited to stock at hand, but pretty much any other option, including finish should be easy to replicate and be offered on any u.s. guitar. i even think the asat classic should have bridge options. also pickups from different models should be available if they fit in the route and the pickguard. shielding should be an available option, fender offers it standard on less than 1k guitars.

[Aussie]

Hey BP
Good to see you back on the board and I do like the look of that weapon of mass destruction of yours.

Necks. I think a compound radius would be a marketing plus, particularly on the models like the Invaders, Ascari and Fiorano.

Tribute Upgrades. The tributes are a great “budget” range but I think thay should stay as a limited option range. Reserve the wider optioning for USA models to provide a point of differentiation. There was talk of possible USA Ascari and Fiorano models but I guess that will depend on how well the Tribute models continue to be received in the market.

Btw, while I think the Ascari and Fiorano are a worthwhile experiment I think it is a bit of a marketing stretch to think of them as being from Leo’s Own blueprints.

Should all colo(u)r variants be available on all US builds if the customer is willing to fork out? Nope. There has to be more to differentiating models than just the body shape and the headstock decal.

Pedals. I have a Sonic Stomp, Crusher and Two Timer. Unfortunately all three seem to have taken up residence at my son’s house. All are good products but I did find a lot of value with the Sonic Stomp.

Cheers, Robbie

[sirmyghin]

I do find it odd that G&L does not offer a few more radii, but overall, over time, I have come to realize radius is a very inimportant factor of playing. In my stable I have a 10, 11, 12, 14 ,15. Can't say that I care which one I pick up. I don't get along with the vintage 7.5" radius, but that has to do with preferences regarding action and fretting out on bends, nothing more. The difference between a 7.5" radius, and a 20" radius @ 1" from center is a whopping 1 mm. Nothing to worry about.

As far as upgrading tributes, don't think it should be an option. They are designed at a price point, not goal dream guitar. Anything done to them would sacrifice that, and the US models aren't terribly expensive as is. The tribute is a supplement, not an end point, exists to fill a perceived market gap, in the bustling world of budget guitars.

If people want to back their dollar, I am all for it, but we need to understand out of the norm stuff could cost a lot. At the end of the day, I can't fault a company for its business decisions though, whether I agree or not.


Tasty looking pig.

[The Black Page]

the finish i wanted was the nena honey ale, and it is a special release finish. the guitars in that release do not have the options i want, and the guitar that would have what i want can't get that finish. makes no sense to me, but that is the way they roll. i understand if special woods would not be available, as the release was limited to stock at hand, but pretty much any other option, including finish should be easy to replicate and be offered on any u.s. guitar. i even think the asat classic should have bridge options. also pickups from different models should be available if they fit in the route and the pickguard. shielding should be an available option, fender offers it standard on less than 1k guitars.

I hope I haven't kicked you off again big guy or I might have to take a trip up the mountain here to procure a bit off the local warlord to settle ya back down! regarding special release finishes mate I can see the logic behind why the guys are keeping them close to the chest.e.g.the autumn burst on he LE-2 was a definite factor for me in pulling the trigger considering the reputation the SC-2 has around these parts,plus ill be getting a rare bird of a similar ilk for basically the same price as a standard factory order.however on garden variety finishes perhaps it might be a nice option if there was price cap of some description to give you a "back stage pass" so to speak to other generic finishes.saying that though Robbie raises some interesting points IMO & has me reappraising my initial take on this.thw whole pick up,bridge extra options opens up a can of worms of sorts,all of us gassers here building frankensteins under leo's banner cheers bud.

Hey BP
Good to see you back on the board and I do like the look of that weapon of mass destruction of yours.

Necks. I think a compound radius would be a marketing plus, particularly on the models like the Invaders, Ascari and Fiorano.

Tribute Upgrades. The tributes are a great “budget” range but I think thay should stay as a limited option range. Reserve the wider optioning for USA models to provide a point of differentiation. There was talk of possible USA Ascari and Fiorano models but I guess that will depend on how well the Tribute models continue to be received in the market.

Btw, while I think the Ascari and Fiorano are a worthwhile experiment I think it is a bit of a marketing stretch to think of them as being from Leo’s Own blueprints.

Should all colo(u)r variants be available on all US builds if the customer is willing to fork out? Nope. There has to be more to differentiating models than just the body shape and the headstock decal.

Pedals. I have a Sonic Stomp, Crusher and Two Timer. Unfortunately all three seem to have taken up residence at my son’s house. All are good products but I did find a lot of value with the Sonic Stomp.

Cheers, Robbie

G'day mate! Nice to finally exchange with you rob', we've crossed paths on a few threads but missed each other somehow lol
Cheers on the WR bro,the boys did a smashing job on it,still mind blown every time I open the case

Funny you use them 3 models as examples of what you'd like to see compound radius' on,I'd more prefer them builds with flat boards as it goes lol I guess that just further highlights the subjectivity of our craft & the whole horses for courses vibe.the compound strat I have is great for more traditional stylings,meaning that towards the nut the neck fights me some & forces that bit of "mongrel" in my bends which is excellent for blues & classic rock but once I'm up past the 12th she flattens out & goes belly up some which allows me to wind out & take the thinking cap off a bit allowing a more free'er expression.
I hear ya vi-sar-vi the marketing stretch too mate,eloquently worded eh lol
Regarding the color variants to different models I agree with you on this one bro especially in a business sense.conversely though I'm unsure of the structure regarding G & L as a company &/or if it has an obligation to share holders et al & if a buyer comes along with say 3k to burn for a custom outing under the proviso that they can have access outside the box you'd think it would also be a logical move to take his money instead of turn him away.im just throwing things out here bud,as I prefaced in the LR I'm sure there's other rational reasons for this as well.
Nice to know your sons at it as well rob nice one my second oldest is absolutely mad on it & has already claimed an upfold custom,Roland floor module,cry baby & speaker box off the "old boy" lol quite an intangible feeling to watch your own follow in your footsteps,as I'm sure is the case with a few of the other guys hooked up here too.
Anyway always a good read Robbie & a pleasure to finally have a one on one with ya mate.cheers..

I do find it odd that G&L does not offer a few more radii, but overall, over time, I have come to realize radius is a very inimportant factor of playing. In my stable I have a 10, 11, 12, 14 ,15. Can't say that I care which one I pick up. I don't get along with the vintage 7.5" radius, but that has to do with preferences regarding action and fretting out on bends, nothing more. The difference between a 7.5" radius, and a 20" radius @ 1" from center is a whopping 1 mm. Nothing to worry about.

As far as upgrading tributes, don't think it should be an option. They are designed at a price point, not goal dream guitar. Anything done to them would sacrifice that, and the US models aren't terribly expensive as is. The tribute is a supplement, not an end point, exists to fill a perceived market gap, in the bustling world of budget guitars.

If people want to back their dollar, I am all for it, but we need to understand out of the norm stuff could cost a lot. At the end of the day, I can't fault a company for its business decisions though, whether I agree or not.


Tasty looking pig.

Hi mate.yeah the pig was quite succulent thats for sure
Regarding radius' my playing style & approach is appreciable going from a 9.5" to 12" little known a 7.5" to a 20"! you're talking the difference between Bb king & Allan holdsworth as far as I go.im unfamiliar with your influences though bro & what & how you play so I can't really expand any on that front sorry
Your take on tribbys is based with sound logic & reason bud & I'd dare not contest any points contained there in.as I posted I'm just throwing ideas out there & seeing what you boys have got to say regarding them.your final statement is the crux of what I was alluding though,of which I've covered in some depth with both Louis & Robbie.
Thanks for stopping by man,nice one.cheers..

[Boogie Bill]

I can't see offering that many options for radii. Inventory and manufacturing nightmare...doubtful they would ever recoup toolling costs. And who decides? How many is enough? Where does it end?

I am homo sapiens. I adapt.

And compounds aren't all that. I have a couple and they are no more or less comfortable than the standard 12" models.

The Ascari and Fiorano are budget models so the company can compete in the that set neck mid market. I think they wisely chose to do an import rather than build in the USA. This is a bolt neck company.

And I can't think of any company that offers the range of finishes that G&L does across its entire line...not Gibson, Hamer, Heritage, Epi, Fender, Schecter, Guild, Martin, Taylor, Yamaha...etc.

Sorry to shoot down all your ideas. If you really that much customization, then a Warmoth or luthier-built guitar is the way to go.

Me, I'm mainstream.

Bill

[The Black Page]

I can't see offering that many options for radii. Inventory and manufacturing nightmare...doubtful they would ever recoup toolling costs. And who decides? How many is enough? Where does it end?

Hi mate & thanks for stopping by.this is agree with...

I am homo sapiens. I adapt.

If we're referring to Darwinism here this too I agree with.pertaining to business however we've all been around enough to know how many companies & CEO's are on the scrap heap who've brazenly embraced this construct.hence i'll see your adage & raise you one bill,"who pays says.."

And compounds aren't all that. I have a couple and they are no more or less comfortable than the standard 12" models.

This I respectfully disagree with sorry bill..

The Ascari and Fiorano are budget models so the company can compete in the that set neck mid market. I think they wisely chose to do an import rather than build in the USA. This is a bolt neck company.

This is agree with.i think G & L by & large have adopted a brilliant incremental business model.

And I can't think of any company that offers the range of finishes that G&L does across its entire line...not Gibson, Hamer, Heritage, Epi, Fender, Schecter, Guild, Martin, Taylor, Yamaha...etc.

this is whole heartedly agree with!

Sorry to shoot down all your ideas.

no ones shooting down anyone's ideas here bill,alls we's shootings the breeze dude

If you really that much customization, then a Warmoth or luthier-built guitar is the way to go.

this again I wholeheartedly agree with.

Me, I'm mainstream.
Bill
and me,I'm ray.and Louis is Louis & onwards & upwards we go to over 7 billion last I checked.be a pretty boring world if we were all the same don't you think?
Peace....

[louis cyfer]

I can't see offering that many options for radii. Inventory and manufacturing nightmare...doubtful they would ever recoup toolling costs. And who decides? How many is enough? Where does it end?

I am homo sapiens. I adapt.



Bill

bill, wow, you are that old? i thought everyone alive today belongs to the homo sapiens sapiens subspecies.

[darwinohm]

TBP. the hog looks great but he is missing the apple in the mouth. Hog roasts are popular in Minnesota but not at that price.

I didn't post this morning because I wanted to think about this. G&L is able to do some neat stuff at value pricing. I suspect that is because they have a set of options to choose from and they don't go out of that window. I have been told that they do not like to do something quite different unless they can build a lot of 25 guitars. That may be true and makes sense to me as many of the limited editions are in lots of 50 or so. I am a bit mystified by the prototypes that were sold in recent times but if you consider the differences, it was mostly finish, pickguard colors, and pickup configurations, nothing that required special tooling.

I have a compound radius neck (Suhr) and it is not very different to me. It is not a big ticket with guitarists and Fender does it in the American Deluxe and Select Series. They are not on the Custom Shop Models and the I'll bet the American Deluxe and Select Series are not big sellers. There are a lot of slick things that can be found on boutique guitars that are there because they charge high buck for them. I just contacted Ron Kirn on a custom build and it was $2800 and a 4 month build time. Although G&L is a custom builder in a sense they are not a one off custom builder, but a custom builder by the fact that a dealer can order what they want from a list of available options. In some cases they do special things for dealer if they order enough. I am happy with the strategy as long as they are priced reasonably. If I want something out of the ordinary, I would buy a brand that offered that and probably be happy. I currently have more brands than I need but I like everyone of them for what they are.

The Tributes are fine guitars but I think they should be cookie cutter and not compete directly with the American G&Ls. They generally have a different neck radius and the woods are souced differently. They are a great value for the price.

As much as I would like a custom finish, I understand the logic behind the paint options. They but larger quantities of paint and if I wanted a special paint, they would have to source it in a very small quantity and the cost would be higher and I'm not sure they would be staffed to do those kinds of things. So, as much as I would like these things I can understand that is does not fit the G&L business model. It is important to me that they make good business decisions and stay in production.

This was an interesting question today as I recently inquired about a custom build. I am not going to share what I wanted but I suspect it is not going to happen and I know that my dealer is working for me but in the end the answer to the question will probably be "We don't do that as a one off" instead of getting the "we will do that for a price". However the door is not shut yet. I may look into it from a different perspective. The bottom line is I may not be able to get what I want exactly, but close may not be bad. I already have some very cool G&L gear and I have more G&L guitars than any other brands.

I have some G&L pedals and if I were to make a statement about any of them they are very good build quality but I must say the Sonic Stomp is almost essential. I also use an 882I Sonic Maximizer on the vocals for two of the band members and they are awesome. The Sonic Stomp may not be noticeable on every amp but it shines on most. I also have a Two Timer and a Mind Bender and really haven't used them. Thanks for jumping in today TBF.-- Darwin

[blargfromouterspace]

DISCLAIMER:my utmost apologies if I have offended any GENUINE practitioners of the Muslim faith with this taboo item

Or Jewish people. Or vegetarians. Or hygiene freaks. Anyone who gets offended that easy needs to have some sense beaten into them.

Considering the near criminal prices we're all paying for these babies...

I don't think they're overpriced at all, quite the opposite. For about the same price as an ASAT or Legacy I can get a Fender US standard where the only options available to me are a choice between 3 or 4 colours. Being able to specify what neck shape, fingerboard radius, colour, bridge, finish sheen is pretty damn good enough as it is, but when you consider how much better - at least to me - a G&L feels than a Fender then you're miles ahead. As usual, Bill is right on the money about this:

If you really that much customization, then a Warmoth or luthier-built guitar is the way to go.l

[The Black Page]

Considering the near criminal prices we're all paying for these babies...

I don't think they're overpriced at all, quite the opposite. For about the same price as an ASAT or Legacy I can get a Fender US standard where the only options available to me are a choice between 3 or 4 colours. Being able to specify what neck shape, fingerboard radius, colour, bridge, finish sheen is pretty damn good enough as it is, but when you consider how much better - at least to me - a G&L feels than a Fender then you're miles ahead.

You've got this one base over apex blarg I meant criminally CHEAP mate

[blargfromouterspace]

You've got this one base over apex blarg I meant criminally CHEAP mate

Ahhhh, that makes more sense, this being G&L fanboy central and all!!! Apologies!

[Aussie]

G'day mate! Nice to finally exchange with you

Likewise

Funny you use them 3 models as examples of what you'd like to see compound radius' on

I agree that a flat board would be the most preferred option for the Invader/ Ascari /Fiorano types but I just think players attracted to those instruments would also more likely to be interested in a compound radius neck than players attracted to the ASAT/Legacy styles.

I hear ya vi-sar-vi the marketing stretch too mate

Don’t get me wrong … I don’t see anything wrong with the Ascari and Fiorano which are clearly targeted at a different demographic than the traditional G&L offerings. I just think the link to the G100 blueprints is a bit tenuous.

I'm unsure of the structure regarding G & L as a company &/or if it has an obligation to share holders et al & if a buyer comes along with say 3k to burn for a custom outing under the proviso that they can have access outside the box you'd think it would also be a logical move to take his money instead of turn him away

Not sure but I think BBE/G&L is a family owned Pty Ltd (or US equivalent) company. However, regardless of ownership commercial enterprises will generally look beyond profits on individual transactions in favour of ensuring profitability over the longer term.

quite an intangible feeling to watch your own follow in your footsteps

Oh yeah ... and me and my bass player mate playing a set with my son and his drummer mate at his 18 birthday will be a buzz I’ll carry to the grave ….
And while on the subject, thanks Darth for trying to hook up my son while he was recently in LA. Unfortunate that schedules didn't work out, but thanks for the intentions!!

cheers, Robbie

[The Black Page]

Darwin
Always a good read bud & thanks for dropping by.
Regarding the issue you want to keep close to your chest mate,you're probably one of the guys I'd have in mind regarding some flexibility when it comes requesting a factory finish from one model on another in a business sense providing it met a price cap.not only have you been a long & loyal advocate of G & L with a collection most of us here both admire & envy,but the work you've pushed their way through your rep in Minnesota would be substantial at an estimate & not a finer ambassador for the G & L brand could they ask for.the way i look at it is this..
Some of us are doing or have done our own thing in business & albeit in almost any form it all but HAS to have some degree of hospitality,public relations,customer service/satisfaction <insert your favorite buzzword>."my way or the highway" is invariably gonna send you broke,whether your behind the sanctity of a brand name or not..say if you owned a bar & had a regular dropping money in your till every week,surely if you've got any smarts you're gonna send him over a free drink every now & then & give a smile for his custom! conversely though darwin raised a vary pertinent point,that being that even though you may not get the "exact" request you've put in for,the factory will still offer you an alternative that is near enough to your ask.in my case with the drafted legacy I ran through the builder even though I may not get the butterscotch finish available which sits better with the Birdseye (IMO) than the lemon for the esthetic I'm trying to achieve to compliment the WR,darth & the boys might say "ray our hands are tied a bit on this one sorry but what if we pick you out a nice hunk of ash & run a clear gloss across it?".id probably go for that if they picked me out a good block,& going on my last dealing I also think they'd do it too..i had one point of trepidation regarding the WR.& that was I wanted a dark rosewood neck to match the bacci burst.id seen numerous lighter rosewood necks on image searches & made mention of it to pat of which he assured me the boys would be savvy to this & pick a deck accordingly.& low & behold it was PERFECT.oh & considering the bells & whistles i asked for they threw in the neck finish at no extra charge as well
Will cover some other points you made further on in this post Darwin,cheers mate...

Blarg

hahahaha no apology necessary brother.with you bein' a Mexican,Robbie a sand groper & me a cockroache it was bound to kick off sooner or later! though perhaps an apology should be forthcoming from me in some regard mate.
The ambiguity of the written word can easily be misread depending on a number of variables.theres a bit of a difference between "would you like to see" & "i think they should" & the over all hue I was trying to purvey in this LR was the former. maybe I screwed up some in the syntax & prose trying add a bit of flavor.irrespective i think a near maxed out WR,an incoming LE-2 & an all going to plan maxed out legacy next year should reveal where my loyalty lies.anyway moving on...

After digesting you boys fine contributions as always this is my current stand on the questions I put forward...


NECK RADUIS/COMPOUNDS/ETC

It would be nice if we had one more radius to choose from.if it were me it would be a 16",which would prove an invaluable asset on models like the invader,legacy HB,fallout & a couple of others.however if confined to only 2 radii due to whatever restrictions I think the the current 12 & 7-1/2 are perfectly complimentary.
Applying both logic & reason to the compound radius proposal its a non starter for a myriad or reasons.chiefly among them what bill posted along with some players indifference or noticing any real difference.

TRIBUTE UPGRADES..

This is also a non starter due to the many excellent reasons posted by you guys.bill in particular pointed out a glaring oversight on my behalf.i still stand resolute however in regards to a US made 2 octave build at some stage in the future.G & L have already gone a fiorano,it's not too great a leap IMO..

FACTORY FINISHES..

Louis you were the first guy I exchanged with here at GbL bud.and despite what ive learnt from you,that blistering blues solo I heard last night & in conjunction with them 30" biceps of yours I'm afraid we've got this one wrong big guy Robbie,Darwin,bill & blarg's are too compelling for me & I stand a man corrected.i do think that collectors of the ilk of jos,ken,Darwin etc should though at the very least be considered gold card status on the odd occasion when you bare in mind that if the 3 boys sold all their planks & pooled the pera together they could probably money down a house in Beverly Hills

Anyway today's another day hence another LR,who's up? thanks heaps guys,cheers...

[louis cyfer]

ray, the nena finish is a totally different feel. it's not the color, it's the feel and the thin finish i am looking for. i just want an asat special with a maple neck with it. i don't particularly care for the thick poly finishes. g&l doesn't even offer that process available, not just individual colors. i a looking to get my ultimate player guitar that covers most of what i need. i was gonna refinish it myself until i saw the nena finish, and they have what i want. so it is a deal breaker, unfortunately i want the dfs and mfd soapbars with the guitar. it makes no sense to me not to offer a whole technology on other than special issue guitars. unlike the other guys, i am a player, not a collector. i don't want a guitar that mostly does what i need, i am actually looking for my ultimate guitar.

[The Black Page]

ray, the nena finish is a totally different feel. it's not the color, it's the feel and the thin finish i am looking for. i just want an asat special with a maple neck with it. i don't particularly care for the thick poly finishes. g&l doesn't even offer that process available, not just individual colors. i a looking to get my ultimate player guitar that covers most of what i need. i was gonna refinish it myself until i saw the nena finish, and they have what i want. so it is a deal breaker, unfortunately i want the dfs and mfd soapbars with the guitar. it makes no sense to me not to offer a whole technology on other than special issue guitars. unlike the other guys, i am a player, not a collector. i don't want a guitar that mostly does what i need, i am actually looking for my ultimate guitar.

I hear ya big guy & you're preaching to the choir as you know,especially the player/collector divide my reappraisal on this one is a direct result of analytical thought purely from a business perspective
I'm not at liberty to disclose the price of major troutage as is forum rules but an eye as discerning as yours could ascertain it within a couple hundred bucks in a nanosecond.while it was still way cheaper than what a suhr,prs etc custom would cost me & im more than happy with the bang for for my buck it was still a substantial shell out, & I believe if customers of your ilk,& collectors like jos,ken,Darwin & so on evn guys like pat who has put in tremdous toil in delivering us members the LE-2 "if they're willing to pay the price" should be at the very minimum be considered an inside rail given the PR,past purchases & loyalty shown the G & L brand.
The G & L brand though as you've said bro is also collector based due to its rich history & the man who's name adorns our head stocks & by opening up this avenue "may" be alienating aspects of the "brand".some will say youre devaluing it.and when you're talking Leo fender it's not a decision that can be simply arrived based on the 2 cents worth of a handful of regular members of a forum.
All conjecture here but ill pose another scenario bud.we're both garsed nuts as you know & last year I grabbed one of his series 2 sigs.its the semi hollow quilt which is the only reason I never totally maxed the WR out on the builder as I didn't want 2 quilt semis so went the flame instead..there has just been been a "similar" 2 octave tribby released of if there was a US variant with the many options we already have & a 16" radius option I could have built a "ray" sig with bells & whistles for less than the money that the garsed was originally released for!
And this is the conundrum you find yourself in huge man.inside the G & L factory lies all the components for a "lethal Louis" custom hand made & basically a one of by the best in the business for a price that should come with a summons & euphemistically speaking your hands are tied by red tape but after reading what the boys had to say here to me anyway unfortunealty it makes sense
Cheers bud..

[louis cyfer]

ray, the nena finish is a totally different feel. it's not the color, it's the feel and the thin finish i am looking for. i just want an asat special with a maple neck with it. i don't particularly care for the thick poly finishes. g&l doesn't even offer that process available, not just individual colors. i a looking to get my ultimate player guitar that covers most of what i need. i was gonna refinish it myself until i saw the nena finish, and they have what i want. so it is a deal breaker, unfortunately i want the dfs and mfd soapbars with the guitar. it makes no sense to me not to offer a whole technology on other than special issue guitars. unlike the other guys, i am a player, not a collector. i don't want a guitar that mostly does what i need, i am actually looking for my ultimate guitar.

I hear ya big guy & you're preaching to the choir as you know,especially the player/collector divide my reappraisal on this one is a direct result of analytical thought purely from a business perspective
I'm not at liberty to disclose the price of major troutage as is forum rules but an eye as discerning as yours could ascertain it within a couple hundred bucks in a nanosecond.while it was still way cheaper than what a suhr,prs etc custom would cost me & im more than happy with the bang for for my buck it was still a substantial shell out, & I believe if customers of your ilk,& collectors like jos,ken,Darwin & so on evn guys like pat who has put in tremdous toil in delivering us members the LE-2 "if they're willing to pay the price" should be at the very minimum be considered an inside rail given the PR,past purchases & loyalty shown the G & L brand.
The G & L brand though as you've said bro is also collector based due to its rich history & the man who's name adorns our head stocks & by opening up this avenue "may" be alienating aspects of the "brand".some will say youre devaluing it.and when you're talking Leo fender it's not a decision that can be simply arrived based on the 2 cents worth of a handful of regular members of a forum.
All conjecture here but ill pose another scenario bud.we're both garsed nuts as you know & last year I grabbed one of his series 2 sigs.its the semi hollow quilt which is the only reason I never totally maxed the WR out on the builder as I didn't want 2 quilt semis so went the flame instead..there has just been been a "similar" 2 octave tribby released of if there was a US variant with the many options we already have & a 16" radius option I could have built a "ray" sig with bells & whistles for less than the money that the garsed was originally released for!
And this is the conundrum you find yourself in huge man.inside the G & L factory lies all the components for a "lethal Louis" custom hand made & basically a one of by the best in the business for a price that should come with a summons & euphemistically speaking your hands are tied by red tape but after reading what the boys had to say here to me anyway unfortunealty it makes sense
Cheers bud..

i have read what was said, but nothing that makes sense. nothing compelling. g&l prides itself on being the custom "hand built for order" company. i am not asking to order a small amount of paint for a special paint, i am asking to put a finish they are currently producing but with much more limited options that available on the regular guitars. i guess special collection means especially uncustomizable. it actually looks like i maybe able to get it done as an employee built guitar and not even have to pay. out the back door if you will. which is a good thing, cause i was contemplating going down and beating dave's head in his desk til he said yes

[The Black Page]

LMAO!! well if you can find any solace in this big guy if I was working there & read that post I think i might reappraise once again I think that's my cue mate,i can tell you from experience that pain hurts!