Lunch Report - 29/4/13 (look at that, a proper date)

[sirmyghin]

Hello everyone,

For those who do not know me, I am a guy named Kyle. I have been working on a tunneling project for the last little while, which takes me away half the year. I work there as part of the engineering team and it was a great time. This is the project I was involved with http://www.altagas.ca/power/renewable/h ... rrest_kerr , and the company I work for did all of the excavations. The powerhouse was a great time.

For lunch today, it looks like a coffee, maybe some cheese. Something light. Maybe those leftover ribs from last night (only a few left). Haven't made it that far yet as I tend to eat later in the day.

As far as instruments go, I am a guy without brand loyalty. I find what I need and if a company doesn't offer it, surely enough some other company will. I have a G&L because I wanted a tele on roids, and the ASAT special coverred that. I have some a couple music man, as they had what I needed too. Same goes for a PRS, something for everything out there, and I am always out to find the best of the tools for the job. This leaves you to wonder what are the draw backs, or draws to each company. Do you follow a trend of brand loyalty, or are you a 'best for the situation' kind of guy?

This leads to one of my grievances with both Legacy's and ASAT's, moreso ASATs, which is upper fret access. The lower horn cut is a pretty small thing on these guitars, be prepared to mash you hands in there. The contouring on a ASAT also leaves a bit to be desired. The ASAT I have weighs about 7 lbs, but feels significantly heavier than other guitars I have that weight. Partially due to balance (hands very flat) and partially due to contouring (has a tummy and arm cut on it too). The instrument plays great, and sounds excellent. When I go for a jam session I tend to grab it, but when I sit down for an extended practice it gets back seated quite often. So there we have my grievance, primarily with overly 'classic' body styles. You have any?

What are more comfortable? In my eyes a PRS is a much more comfortable instrument, seems to hang off you and remain invisible, but that is far from the pinnacle of comfort for me. The most comfortable instrument I have played happens to be huge. The bongo bass by EBMM. Such a large body that seemingly disappears when you strap it on. I know they get a lot of flack for being 'ugly' and other such non-sense but you will not find a more accommodating bass out there. I'll leave that one there, and follow it with a picture. Yes it has 6 strings, yes it is excellent, and yes, look at that beautiful pearloid pickguard .



I'll check back later today, a bit busy this afternoon though. Have a good day everyone.

[louis cyfer]

i think the asat shape with the tummy and forearm cut is nice, but the lack of option for neck contour and lower cutaway contour/shaping ended up being a deal breaker for me when i was ordering an asat special earlier this year. so was the unwillingness to do a nena finish, i find it silly to have a finish but not make it available for custom orders.

[Lefty]

Hi Kyle,

Hi Kyle, Like you, I really have no brand loyalty. I own Fender, Epiphone, Hagstrom, G&L (4), PRS, Ibanez, Taylor, and have a Carvin on order. I tend to purchase whatever I want as I see fit.
I bought a PRS CU24 last year & love it. I have a Carvin CT6 on order. Hopefully, I will enjoy it as much as my PRS.
I may purchase a LE-2 because it is a Limited Edition. I have no idea how I will like it.

I feel G&L could benefit from making the tummy & arm cut standard equipment on the ASAT’s. I’m not into classic styles that much. I do own an ASAT Classic & a Bluesboy Classic, but would like them more if they didn’t have the ashtray bridge & did have higher quality tone & volume controls; but that is something I could change so it’s not a deal killer.

Love that Pearloid pickguard!!

[supereiv]

Funny, I don't consider myself as being loyal to a brand... But I must admit that I always return to G&L, not only because those guitars give me what I want and need, but I do like the strategy of the company, and that matters to me somehow.

I'm chasing for a new guitar for about 9 months, and I've tried PRS, Vigier, LAG, Fender CS, Gibson, high end Ibanez, Music Man... And though there are a lot of really good guitars out there, I'm gonna buy another G&L ( leo era ASAT or S-500 deluxe, or maybe a custom order). Go figure

But it's not loyalty, I just don't find what I want elsewhere.

As for ergonomy of tha ASAT, I like them like that

[darwinohm]

Kyle, glad to hear you finally have some time off. Sounds like a pretty interesting project. Lunch was Mac & Cheese with the youngest granddaughter!

I am not a brand loyalist as such but buy what I like and appeals to me. I have 13 or 14 brands and each one of them works for me. I used to be a Fender guy but I now have more G&Ls and the Fenders are thinning out. They have turned out to be good assets so I can't complain.

There isn't much I would change on the ASAT. I would like a tapered heel but that doesn't impede me as I usually don't get quite that high. I still miss microtilt but we probably never see it again. It is still used on many of the American Fenders. The belly cut would be a great standard feature but at least it is available. There is a pristine Invader that they are trying to sell me but I can't quite warm up to it. It is really nice but I haven't considered one. Maybe some day.

Nice Bongo Kyle. I still have a Stingray 5 but I have sold all the other EBMM's that I had. They were well built. How is that ASAT Special working for you? -- Darwin

[sirmyghin]

Louis - Yeah the no neck cut contouring is a biggy. I mean, you are a lot bigger guy than me, so if I have trouble mashing my hands up there, I can only imagine what you have to do. I also do not understand holding something like that back. If the cash is in hand, what is there to lose?

Tim- Good to see you chime in on this one. Hand rest is pretty important, and the primary issue I HATE Tune-o-matic bridges. Those pointy freaking saddles drive me up the wall. I know what you mean about reaching trem arms too, but nothing beats a floyd in trems. If I am looking for a trem (opposed to buying a guitar with one I will likely not use overmuch), it will be a floyd every time. For a fixed bridge though, the saddle lock is a mighty comfy beast.

Lefty - I wish you luck with the carvins. I have 1 guitar and 1 bass from them, but I can't say they can live up to the others, unfortunately. Carvins are good instruments, but I have a hard time finding anything (aside from price point) which would make them great. Too many small improvements I can make, they are also guilty of the evil small lower horn on the C66. Not sure about the CT though. I also agree, I like the saddle lock bridge a lot though, hence owning a special not a classic.

Supereiv - Interesting that you consider the companies strategy, I would never consider it myself. I am more of a do I like it, does it feel good, ok buy it, type of guy. Funny you mentioned Vigier too, a no go for me as you can't adjust the neck (yes I know, you don't HAVE to, but that is removing a lot of preference from the equation, silly stuff, imo.) As far as custom small luthiers go, all I have to say is caveat emptor. Most are very poor at the business side of things, regardless of their ability to build a playable guitar. That is if they can build a guitar that plays beyond looking good.

Darwin - Sting rays are wonderful basses. They just don't come in a 6, and I will say I prefered the bongo 5 by a smidge. A classic serious 5 banger though, with those mutes, could be fun. The ASAT is still working great, as mentioned I jam out with it a lot. I occasionally pull it out for practice, but the ergonomics means largely one of the super strats or the PRS for that.

We'll see if I can be a bit more entertaining tomorrow. Until then folks.

[louis cyfer]

Louis - Yeah the no neck cut contouring is a biggy. I mean, you are a lot bigger guy than me, so if I have trouble mashing my hands up there, I can only imagine what you have to do. I also do not understand holding something like that back. If the cash is in hand, what is there to lose?.

and it wouldn't have to be cnc programmed, it can be done on a simple sander. i did it to the tele body i had made for me, and i re-contoured the lower cutaway and neck joint with just a rotary and a flat sander. and i even kept the look of the body from the front unchanged. the lower horn still looks the same from the front, yet has a lot more room and can only tell from the back or when playing it. it took me 30 minutes. if i can do it at home, i am sure an experienced woodworker can knock it out with proper tools in 5-10 minutes. a 50 dollar upcharge for each should cover labor and all. but even if it's a 100, at least make it available.

[gitman001]

Hey Kyle,

Good to see you back. I guess I would say i would be somewhat loyal to a brand... Wether it be clothing, foot ware, vehicles, etc. Once I find something that i like - that has a good bang for the buck - i tend to roll with it. I do value being able to purchase things and know there is a certain level of Quality Control behind the name i am buying. That's what keeps me coming back to G&L. I feel that i can pick up any one of the products (some without even playing them... like a few that have come from eBay) and know i am going to receive a top notch instrument. There is certainly no other company ( that is in my price range ) that i would feel comfortable doing that with.

As far as the issues with body style, I personally don't really have any. I have ASAT's with the forearm and tummy cuts as well as standard ASATs and if i had a choice i would stick with the slab body over the cuts.

I think it's gonna be a great week!

Scott

[Craig]

Louis - Yeah the no neck cut contouring is a biggy. I mean, you are a lot bigger guy than me, so if I have trouble mashing my hands up there, I can only imagine what you have to do. I also do not understand holding something like that back. If the cash is in hand, what is there to lose?

See this post I recently added to the G&L Knowledgebase: Why are there no ASAT models with standard body contouring?.
The same thing applies to neck cut contouring. How many G&L dealers have you guys made this request and indicated that
it was a deal breaker without? I will bring it up with Paul when he get's back from his vacation next month, but It's not likely to
happen without the dealer's request for the feature and the dealer's aren't going to request it if they don't hear from their customers (ie. all of us).

[Fumble fingers]

Hey Kyle,

Good to see you back. I guess I would say i would be somewhat loyal to a brand... Wether it be clothing, foot ware, vehicles, etc. Once I find something that i like - that has a good bang for the buck - i tend to roll with it. I do value being able to purchase things and know there is a certain level of Quality Control behind the name i am buying. That's what keeps me coming back to G&L. I feel that i can pick up any one of the products (some without even playing them... like a few that have come from eBay) and know i am going to receive a top notch instrument. There is certainly no other company ( that is in my price range ) that i would feel comfortable doing that with.

As far as the issues with body style, I personally don't really have any. I have ASAT's with the forearm and tummy cuts as well as standard ASATs and if i had a choice i would stick with the slab body over the cuts.

I think it's gonna be a great week!

Scott

I'm with Scott ..... dang , I was going to buy a Fender American Standard before I found G&L .... sure glad I didn't , with two G&L's now on order and one in hand I see no reason to change ...... I could see getting a PRS much later , but there are few more G&L's I want first

[louis cyfer]

Louis - Yeah the no neck cut contouring is a biggy. I mean, you are a lot bigger guy than me, so if I have trouble mashing my hands up there, I can only imagine what you have to do. I also do not understand holding something like that back. If the cash is in hand, what is there to lose?

See this post I recently added to the G&L Knowledgebase: Why are there no ASAT models with standard body contouring?.
The same thing applies to neck cut contouring. How many G&L dealers have you guys made this request and indicated that
it was a deal breaker without? I will bring it up with Paul when he get's back from his vacation next month, but It's not likely to
happen without the dealer's request for the feature and the dealer's aren't going to request it if they don't hear from their customers (ie. all of us).

i understand not making it a standard feature. but to not have it at all as an option, makes no sense. the dealers i have experienced just wanted to use g&l's shortcomings in this area to flip me to buy a suhr, anderson, prs, etc. a lot of people also don't make a big deal, they just pick from what's available, or just walk away. g&l won't even hear about that. sometimes the company has to make the first step. i doubt the dealers were breathing down g&l's neck to make a nena finish.

[Craig]

i understand not making it a standard feature. but to not have it at all as an option, makes no sense. the dealers i have experienced just wanted to use g&l's shortcomings in this area to flip me to buy a suhr, anderson, prs, etc. a lot of people also don't make a big deal, they just pick from what's available, or just walk away. g&l won't even hear about that. sometimes the company has to make the first step. i doubt the dealers were breathing down g&l's neck to make a nena finish.

Like I said, I will bring it to Paul's attention. The NENA finishes were just that, a first step, which was shown to the distributors and dealers prior to the
release of the 2012 Special Collections. And as you know, they are currently only available on the two Special Collections. I would not be surprised to
see more NENA finishes in the future but likely to continue to only be available on the Swamp Ash Special Collections.

[blargfromouterspace]

Hey Kyle,

Good to see you back. I guess I would say i would be somewhat loyal to a brand... Wether it be clothing, foot ware, vehicles, etc. Once I find something that i like - that has a good bang for the buck - i tend to roll with it. I do value being able to purchase things and know there is a certain level of Quality Control behind the name i am buying. That's what keeps me coming back to G&L. I feel that i can pick up any one of the products (some without even playing them... like a few that have come from eBay) and know i am going to receive a top notch instrument. There is certainly no other company ( that is in my price range ) that i would feel comfortable doing that with.

As far as the issues with body style, I personally don't really have any. I have ASAT's with the forearm and tummy cuts as well as standard ASATs and if i had a choice i would stick with the slab body over the cuts.

I think it's gonna be a great week!

Scott

Ditto to all the above!

I love slab bodies and wish that having NO contours was an option on the SC2. I was told that it won't happen by the guy I bought from. I can see having a mild heel contour like on the American Deluxe strats being nice.

[yowhatsshakin]

Hey Kyle,

Welcome back from under ground (or underground)!

Qs far as electrics go I'm a 2 brand guy, PRS for set necks, G&L for bolt on. But most all of the time I play one of my ASAT, unless I really need a more LP sound which calls for my PRS Sunburst 45. Like Tim, I also only gravitated to the Tele style body in my 30's and it by far my favorite body style. And again like Tim you won't find me often way high up the neck so no gripes about contours and cut outs here.

But a very spunky/funky bass you have there. Very artsy

- Jos

[blargfromouterspace]

I remember reading somewhere that old man Fender designed the Strat by looking at a shark. I believe that the designer of the Bongo was looking at a sunfish - they're both pretty kooky shapes, but I can't help liking them.

[sirmyghin]

Blarg - The resemblance is uncanny. As far as flat tops go though, this is a primary case of to each their own I guess.

Jos - Shame you don't go up the neck that far, a little EQ and you can make a ASAT special (or like a broadcaster) spit out some good rush tones.

[willross]

Nice post. For set-necks, I'm exploring a Larrivee RS-4 and my wee Parker and G&L for the bolt-on and maybe an Angry Angus Surly. No complaints as the pickguard replacement for my S-500 took care of any excessive noise...

I like that pic of the sunfish! I've seen them up close fishing off the shore of NJ about 17 miles out near shark canyon. There must be a few species because the one's I've seen had much bigger eyes for their bodies. Huge! Bigger like a frisbee!


Cheers,

Will

[sirmyghin]

Lefty - Carvins are all made at the same quality level, so there is no 'top of the line', only different options and shapes, much like G&L. They have to offer that 'test drive' as why else would you buy a random, relatively unknown factory direct guitar? It is not they did not leave a good impression, there is just nothing exceptional about them. They are what they are, and I do not find them to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Will - Larrivee are interesting axes, my buddy has one of their acoustics and it is a nice piece. Never played a parker though, but I hear they are hard to fault.

[Lefty]

Lefty - Carvins are all made at the same quality level, so there is no 'top of the line', only different options and shapes, much like G&L. They have to offer that 'test drive' as why else would you buy a random, relatively unknown factory direct guitar? It is not they did not leave a good impression, there is just nothing exceptional about them. They are what they are, and I do not find them to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Will - Larrivee are interesting axes, my buddy has one of their acoustics and it is a nice piece. Never played a parker though, but I hear they are hard to fault.

Okay. Thanks for the info.. Like i said, if I don't like it, I can return it. I can also order another if I so desire. Try to do that with a Gibson, Fender, G&L, etc. As far the "test drive," you have to know that us "lefties" don't have the luxury to go to any guitar store on the block & play a few dozen guitars until we find one that is acceptable. We're lucky if most stores stock anything in a lefty.

[louis cyfer]

Lefty - Carvins are all made at the same quality level, so there is no 'top of the line', only different options and shapes, much like G&L. They have to offer that 'test drive' as why else would you buy a random, relatively unknown factory direct guitar? It is not they did not leave a good impression, there is just nothing exceptional about them. They are what they are, and I do not find them to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Will - Larrivee are interesting axes, my buddy has one of their acoustics and it is a nice piece. Never played a parker though, but I hear they are hard to fault.

Okay. Thanks for the info.. Like i said, if I don't like it, I can return it. I can also order another if I so desire. Try to do that with a Gibson, Fender, G&L, etc. As far the "test drive," you have to know that us "lefties" don't have the luxury to go to any guitar store on the block & play a few dozen guitars until we find one that is acceptable. We're lucky if most stores stock anything in a lefty.

i have the same opinion on carvins, they are nice enough but nothing special. the pickups are junk though. i don't know many who don't change them. their amps are a different story. just horrible. i have several carvin show rooms nearby. i wish g&l had such a thing, even if only at the factory. i can try any carvin i want to, i have to go to Craigslist to try g&l's, living only 20 minutes from the factory. none of the dealers around have any sort of a selection.

[Lefty]

Lefty - Carvins are all made at the same quality level, so there is no 'top of the line', only different options and shapes, much like G&L. They have to offer that 'test drive' as why else would you buy a random, relatively unknown factory direct guitar? It is not they did not leave a good impression, there is just nothing exceptional about them. They are what they are, and I do not find them to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Will - Larrivee are interesting axes, my buddy has one of their acoustics and it is a nice piece. Never played a parker though, but I hear they are hard to fault.

Okay. Thanks for the info.. Like i said, if I don't like it, I can return it. I can also order another if I so desire. Try to do that with a Gibson, Fender, G&L, etc. As far the "test drive," you have to know that us "lefties" don't have the luxury to go to any guitar store on the block & play a few dozen guitars until we find one that is acceptable. We're lucky if most stores stock anything in a lefty.

i have the same opinion on carvins, they are nice enough but nothing special. the pickups are junk though. i don't know many who don't change them. their amps are a different story. just horrible. i have several carvin show rooms nearby. i wish g&l had such a thing, even if only at the factory. i can try any carvin i want to, i have to go to Craigslist to try g&l's, living only 20 minutes from the factory. none of the dealers around have any sort of a selection.

Well gee, since two of you don't like Carvin guitars, I'll just get an RMA & send it right back to Carvin without even trying it. And yeah, I'm sure their amps are junk too - Who am I to argue with an expert.

[louis cyfer]

Lefty - Carvins are all made at the same quality level, so there is no 'top of the line', only different options and shapes, much like G&L. They have to offer that 'test drive' as why else would you buy a random, relatively unknown factory direct guitar? It is not they did not leave a good impression, there is just nothing exceptional about them. They are what they are, and I do not find them to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Will - Larrivee are interesting axes, my buddy has one of their acoustics and it is a nice piece. Never played a parker though, but I hear they are hard to fault.

Okay. Thanks for the info.. Like i said, if I don't like it, I can return it. I can also order another if I so desire. Try to do that with a Gibson, Fender, G&L, etc. As far the "test drive," you have to know that us "lefties" don't have the luxury to go to any guitar store on the block & play a few dozen guitars until we find one that is acceptable. We're lucky if most stores stock anything in a lefty.

i have the same opinion on carvins, they are nice enough but nothing special. the pickups are junk though. i don't know many who don't change them. their amps are a different story. just horrible. i have several carvin show rooms nearby. i wish g&l had such a thing, even if only at the factory. i can try any carvin i want to, i have to go to Craigslist to try g&l's, living only 20 minutes from the factory. none of the dealers around have any sort of a selection.

Well gee, since two of you don't like Carvin guitars, I'll just get an RMA & send it right back to Carvin without even trying it. And yeah, I'm sure their amps are junk too - Who am I to argue with an expert.

i didn't say i didn't like carvin guitars. i said they are nice enough. certainly good value, but none of them have ever grabbed at me. i hope you like yours. as far as the amps, i have tried them all, i really hoped they would deliver, the price was certainly right.

[darwinohm]

I don't mind using "junk " if it works good. I have a couple of SWR bass amps I have had since before the Fender ownership. I replaced both of them with a Carvin RS1000 2/10 and run an external SWR15 and an external Goliath 4/10. I am not impressed with the effects on the Carvin but don't use them. It is a very good rig for what I do and it has headroom and very articulate and clear. I love it. I also play a Carvin 5 string bass a lot. It is KOA and very light. It is versatile and does the job very well. It doesn't have the grunt of my L2500 but I continue to get compliments from bass players after the gigs. I understand that each of you have opinions about tone and quality and I respect that. My satisfaction comes from what I play and how I play it. If it is appreciated by the audience I am playing to, I have been successful. It is even better if I am happy with what I have done and in the end if I am happy with me, I am satisfied. Tone and pickups are personal to everyone. Of the 45 guitars that I have, I am not changing the pickups in any of them. We all have our likes and dislikes but they are only important to each of us as an individual. I have learned to not knock what someone else likes or plays, as what they play and how they play it is what counts in the end. I am certain that someone like Mark Knopfler could make any of my guitars sound great, probably like I wish I could. I have no doubt that Lefty will enjoy his Carvin as much as I have enjoyed mine. If he doesn't, he can send it back. I will say that I respect everyone's opinion on what they like and dislike but because I may not like something I am not going to tell them it is junk unless they asked me for my opinion. Even at that I would be careful about qualifying why I think it is junk and I would do it in a PM. I personally am waiting to see the pictures of Lefty's Carvin when it arrives. If we had products available that were chosen by one person, we wouldn't have much to look at. --- Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Jos - Shame you don't go up the neck that far, a little EQ and you can make a ASAT special (or like a broadcaster) spit out some good rush tones.

I believe you. But you always have to leave some room for growth, expansion, and new development

- Jos

[louis cyfer]

I don't mind using "junk " if it works good. I have a couple of SWR bass amps I have had since before the Fender ownership. I replaced both of them with a Carvin RS1000 2/10 and run an external SWR15 and an external Goliath 4/10. I am not impressed with the effects on the Carvin but don't use them. It is a very good rig for what I do and it has headroom and very articulate and clear. I love it. I also play a Carvin 5 string bass a lot. It is KOA and very light. It is versatile and does the job very well. It doesn't have the grunt of my L2500 but I continue to get compliments from bass players after the gigs. I understand that each of you have opinions about tone and quality and I respect that. My satisfaction comes from what I play and how I play it. If it is appreciated by the audience I am playing to, I have been successful. It is even better if I am happy with what I have done and in the end if I am happy with me, I am satisfied. Tone and pickups are personal to everyone. Of the 45 guitars that I have, I am not changing the pickups in any of them. We all have our likes and dislikes but they are only important to each of us as an individual. I have learned to not knock what someone else likes or plays, as what they play and how they play it is what counts in the end. I am certain that someone like Mark Knopfler could make any of my guitars sound great, probably like I wish I could. I have no doubt that Lefty will enjoy his Carvin as much as I have enjoyed mine. If he doesn't, he can send it back. I will say that I respect everyone's opinion on what they like and dislike but because I may not like something I am not going to tell them it is junk unless they asked me for my opinion. Even at that I would be careful about qualifying why I think it is junk and I would do it in a PM. I personally am waiting to see the pictures of Lefty's Carvin when it arrives. If we had products available that were chosen by one person, we wouldn't have much to look at. --- Darwin

the carvin bass amps are pretty good actually. it is their tube guitar stuff that sucks. the carvin basses are also good, better than their guitar imnsho.

[zapcosongs]

Hey Sirmy. Nice to see you on LR duty. Cool report. Fugly-assed bass guitar there. But who cares. If you love it, rock it!

Upper fret access is not an issue to me (unless of course I have the capo on the nineteenth fret - ha!).

And yeah, I'm brand-loyal. I think I have about 8 G&Ls, one (Japanese) Fender, one Gibby and a Hamer. I'm beginning to see a pattern (acoustics aside). The Leo-era ones are better and way less expensive vintage Fenders as far as I'm concerned. Even I can appreciate that.

The newer ones (I own two - a Bluesboy and a Legacy) - I consider best of breed unless you are considerably better off financially than I am and a whole lot pickier.

I have a great affection for old slab-bodied instruments, AND I love the feel of sweet contours sometimes as well. I think if I were a real player, this would be more of a consideration.

Finally, I love the giant sunfish. I have a deep-ocean Animal Planet thing on TV in the background as I write this, and I am always amazed by the stunning variety and enginuity of life at the darkest depths.

I'm guessing we're gonna see fish on the lunch menu this week, eh Sirmy? Have a good evening! -ed

[sirmyghin]

Ed - Good to see you still around. Capo on 19, that sounds painful. Then again, I can't remember the last time I used a capo. G&Ls can definitely run alongside the rest of my stable though, despite being marginally cheaper. Their relative excellence is definitely a non-issue, and a huge plus.

Seems we got enough folks here with slab body love to make up for us folks wanting something comfy though, so they are all yours folks.

[supereiv]

One more thing to say : in french a sun fish is called poisson lune moon fish litteraly...

[sirmyghin]

^^
That is why we can't have nice things.