Leftovers, They're Not Bad.... When They're Good!

[ribeye1974]

Well today was leftovers day for lunch. The raw veggies from Mondays lunch with lasagna and garlic bread from last nights supper. Yum!

G&L Topic: Many of you know by now, I'm new to G&L, so todays topic is yet another educational lesson for me. I didn't make my purchase hastily, I did research first, a lot of research, on G&L and several other custom makers brands. A quick sum of what my order was, for those who didn't read my 'introduction' post. It's a Comanche, swamp ash, honey burst, maple fingerboard, 1a slim C neck and locking tuners... a couple more features, but those are the main specs. Now, a 'like' guitar from other brands (as close as you can get anyways) was anywhere from 50% more, to over double the cost of what the Comanche was. Also, I found NO bad reviews on G&L online, but I did find negative reviews on every other brand I researched, not a lot mind you, but they're out there. So my question is, why/how can G&L beat everyone else in price, and seemingly, quality?

Non G&L Topic: Louis, and JagInTheBag (his wife and daughter to be more specific) inspired this topic, I had something else planned, but this is better. I want to talk about out pets and/or the animals we've rescued. Ever since I can remember my family has been pet owners. We've always had multiple dogs, and when I was little (5 years old or so) we raised birds, a little over 70 of them in our basement, about 10 different species if memory serves. After we moved, space, and town bylaws prevented us from having them anymore, but luckily my parents knew someone with the space and know-how to take them all on for us. We also raised a skunk that was orphaned, it's mother hit by a car, and it too young to survive on it's own. The vet 'descents' them, and from that point on, they are much like owning a cat (this was over 30 years ago, there was no rehabbing wild animals around here back then). This was not uncommon is our area, our neighbour had a skunk also mother hit by a car. When we moved, our neighbour took our skunk and raised it, it lived a full and happy life. Currently my wife and I own two rough Scotch Collies, brother and sister, they are beautiful, gentle and fantastic with the kids. Please, tell me about your pets, and in the case of those who do animal rescues, please share some of the most inspiring rescues that you've done. I realize in some peoples cases that might be hundreds of rescues, so pick a few of the ones you're most proud of! Oh, and thank you.

[y2kc]

Ribeye,

Welcome to the world of G&L. You will like your custom order.

I was rescued about 8 years ago by two black cats. Their names are George and Gracie and they keep me inline. They also keep the house,yard,neighbors yard and a two block radius clear of all wildlife. They have cabin fever right now and won't go out in this weather. Natural born killers.

G&L's are good guitars. I am a big fan of Leo era stuff but the new stuff is as nice as you can get. I have a couple newer G&L's and the build quality is spot on.

Mouse free,

y2kc

[bassman]

Roy- You are the first person that I have ever heard of to start their G&L collection with a Commanche guitar. That is truly bad ass, and I urge you to learn that guitar with an open mind because it is far more powerful than any strat style guitar the you have used previously.

Animals- I used the work at our County's animal Shelter in the mid-nineties and I adopted our first dog from them. " Snowball" was a Bichon Frise ,who my whole family loved but my twin daughters were 6 when we got him in '93 and they really loved him every day of his nearly 16 years on this earth. We had to put him down three years ago because he was blind and you could tell that he was no longer having any fun being a dog.

I currently have no pets. I am out playing music and the kids have moved out.

[ribeye1974]

I was rescued about 8 years ago by two black cats. Their names are George and Gracie and they keep me inline. They also keep the house,yard,neighbors yard and a two block radius clear of all wildlife. They have cabin fever right now and won't go out in this weather. Natural born killers.

Nice way to put it, I like the way you think! Weather has been crazy here this winter...

[ribeye1974]

I urge you to learn that guitar with an open mind because it is far more powerful than any strat style guitar the you have used previously.

The only strat style guitbox I've ever played is my cousins '57 strat. (not a reissue, the real McCoy)... so my mind is as open as it can be without my brain falling out!

Animals- I used the work at our County's animal Shelter in the mid-nineties and I adopted our first dog from them.

Good for you man! Keep on rockin!!

[JagInTheBag]

Lunch today was a Culver's "Snack Pack" which would have been considered a regular sized combo meal 10 years ago. Bacon Cheeseburger Deluxe, small fry, small Pepsi (12 oz.)

G&L: I've been impressed with the little details, the innovations that Leo poured into these guitars that the big F thought most buyers would overlook. Unique things like the Z coils and the bridge designs brought me to G&L. The quality of construction and finishes is what had kept me loyal.


non-G&L: All of our animals growing up and even now have been rescues. Dogs we've had include rescue Pitbulls and Great Danes. Bully breeds people fear or misunderstand on the Pits and the Staffordshire Terriers. The Danes we'd get were sometimes already old, 6 to 10 years, other people would not adopt because they didn't have a long life expectancy. My mom currently has a rescued Pitbull breeding bitch, kindest, most affectionate gal you'd ever want to meet. The cats that have "rescued us" include a pair Maine Coons we kept from a litter we found at the paintball field I refereed at, the day we were closing for the winter. We've had them since college- 16 year-olds now. Our youngest was abandoned when the local Naval Air Station closed - one of my wife's co-workers was throwing this poor black cat around the parking lot. She kicked his as and brought Renard Noir du Chat home. The "middle child" is a auburn/black tabby my wife brought home as a 2 week old kitten, returning from a road trip with a friend to Pennsylvania. Her mom had been killed and the local yokels were confused as to why the only remaining kitten- eyes not yet open, would not drink water from a bowl. The younger two want nothing to do with the outdoors. The Maine Coons- still love a good romp in the snow when it is freshly fallen- then right back inside.

[ribeye1974]

Lunch today was a Culver's "Snack Pack" which would have been considered a regular sized combo meal 10 years ago. Bacon Cheeseburger Deluxe, small fry, small Pepsi (12 oz.)

G&L: I've been impressed with the little details, the innovations that Leo poured into these guitars that the big F thought most buyers would overlook. Unique things like the Z coils and the bridge designs brought me to G&L. The quality of construction and finishes is what had kept me loyal.


non-G&L: All of our animals growing up and even now have been rescues. Dogs we've had include rescue Pitbulls and Great Danes. Bully breeds people fear or misunderstand on the Pits and the Staffordshire Terriers. The Danes we'd get were sometimes already old, 6 to 10 years, other people would not adopt because they didn't have a long life expectancy. My mom currently has a rescued Pitbull breeding bitch, kindest, most affectionate gal you'd ever want to meet. The cats that have "rescued us" include a pair Maine Coons we kept from a litter we found at the paintball field I refereed at the day we were closing for the winter. We've had them since college- 16 year-olds now. Our youngest was abandoned when the local Naval Air Station closed - one of my wife's co-workers was throwing this poor black cat around the parking lot. She kicked his as and brought Renard Noir du Chat home. The "middle child" is a auburn/black tabby my wife brought home as a 2 week old kitten, returning from a road trip with a friend to Pennsylvania. Her mom had been killed and the local yokels were confused as to why the only remaining kitten- eyes not yet open, would not drink water from a bowl. The younger two want nothing to do with the outdoors. The Maine Coons- still love a good romp in the snow when it is freshly fallen- then right back inside.

That's so awesome! My oldest daughter wants a cat from the animal shelter, when she's a bit older, and we're sure her breathing issues/allergies are a thing of the past, she will get to go pick out her new friend.

[repoman]

G&L: I'm guessing marketing hocus-pocus has something to do with G&L being cheaper than other brands.
Some folks are surely paying a premium markup just cuz the headstock has a sticker that says Flender or Glibson on it.

Non G&L: We - but mostly my wife - have been doing pet rescue for about 15 years. She has been a paid employee and/or volunteer for several vets and pet rescue facilities in our area. We have fostered/quarantined countless dogs and cats during that time. The wife and daughter probably wanted to keep most of them, but I've been the harda$$ that has kept the numbers down to a manageable level. Currently we have 2 cats and 1 dog that all started as fosters. We just finished fostering a 6 month old pup last week that was probably part border collie, part burnese mountain dog. He was energetic and HUGE! But dang what a sweetheart he was. Don't tell my wife, but he was one that I was tempted to keep Probably would have if we weren't heading out of town next week.

Jeff

[ribeye1974]

G&L: I'm guessing marketing hocus-pocus has something to do with G&L being cheaper than other brands.
Some folks are surely paying a premium markup just cuz the headstock has a sticker that says Flender or Glibson on it.

Non G&L: We - but mostly my wife - have been doing pet rescue for about 15 years. She has been a paid employee and/or volunteer for several vets and pet rescue facilities in our area. We have fostered/quarantined countless dogs and cats during that time. The wife and daughter probably wanted to keep most of them, but I've been the harda$$ that has kept the numbers down to a manageable level. Currently we have 2 cats and 1 dog that all started as fosters. We just finished fostering a 6 month old pup last week that was probably part border collie, part burnese mountain dog. He was energetic and HUGE! But dang what a sweetheart he was. Don't tell my wife, but he was one that I was tempted to keep Probably would have if we weren't heading out of town next week.

Jeff

yeah, I hear ya on the hocus-pocus, you're probably right, I looked into 7 or 8 brands, they all seem to be selling their name. That puppy sounds sooo cute... I like both breeds in that mix quite a lot. Good on you and yours, with the rescue work!!

[louis cyfer]

i have 9 cats and 1 dog that are mine, 2 foster pit mixes, jag is right, they are great dogs, just misunderstood. one of them might end up staying with me for good, as the original problem was that he wanted to eat the cats. now he sleeps with them. took a while, and while he has a strong prey drive, he knows the cats are his pack, and he is fine with them now. he would not be safe with strange cats. one more cat (foster) is coming today. i have done hundreds of rescues, the most memorable is one that was feral pregnant, just about at term, and only 7 lbs with 8 kittens inside. starving. picked her up (got torn up pretty bad), got her to the vet, then home, and she gave birth 3 days later. according to the vet, she was at term already, but she was holding onto the kittens because she was getting nutrition. all 8 kittens lived, she ate 20 cans of food a day to be able to nurse them. she was a little crazy, difficult to handle, not adoptable, so she stayed with me. after 6 years, she is as affectionate as any cat, although she still has her idiosyncrasies. she does not like to be touched by the tale, she'll bite if you do it. only gently though. she used to draw blood before. found homes for the kittens, but kept 2, one of which has been sleeping with me since he was 1 day old. the mom only had 7 working nipples, and he was by far the biggest one, and had to remove him so the others could eat. we developed a very strong bond.





i a very proud of this forum, so many people participating in rescue.

[ribeye1974]

i have 9 cats and 1 dog that are mine, 2 foster pit mixes, jag is right, they are great dogs, just misunderstood. one of them might end up staying with me for good, as the original problem was that he wanted to eat the cats. now he sleeps with them. took a while, and while he has a strong prey drive, he knows the cats are his pack, and he is fine with them now. he would not be safe with strange cats. one more cat (foster) is coming today. i have done hundreds of rescues, the most memorable is one that was feral pregnant, just about at term, and only 7 lbs with 8 kittens inside. starving. picked her up (got torn up pretty bad), got her to the vet, then home, and she gave birth 3 days later. according to the vet, she was at term already, but she was holding onto the kittens because she was getting nutrition. all 8 kittens lived, she ate 20 cans of food a day to be able to nurse them. she was a little crazy, difficult to handle, not adoptable, so she stayed with me. after 6 years, she is as affectionate as any cat, although she still has her idiosyncrasies. she does not like to be touched by the tale, she'll bite if you do it. only gently though. she used to draw blood before. found homes for the kittens, but kept 2, one of which has been sleeping with me since he was 1 day old. the mom only had 7 working nipples, and he was by far the biggest one, and had to remove him so the others could eat. we developed a very strong bond.





i a very proud of this forum, so many people participating in rescue.

Wow, that's a great story about the pregnant cat Louis! You're doing wonderful work, keep it up!!! Man, you are right about the amount of people doing rescues on this forum. A connection between G&L and love for animals? This is great!!

[darwinohm]

I had soup today and corned beef and cabbage for dinner tonight.

The price on G&L is reasonable because they are not number one and they focus on building a quality product. G and F are into marketing a bunch of artist models and that raises the price.

Yes our cats were rescued in a sense but not from a shelter. They are brother and sister from the same litter. They live the good life and are now just over 3 years old. We have had pets over the years and it is always hard to lose them. They are family members. Here they are. -- Darwin

Sam


and Magic.

[cuzwilly]

lunch was a hamberger an chips

marketing is right people would rather pay more to run with the crowd than have a quality G&L and a better guitar in my opinion.

I live in the county city folks are always dumping their unwanted pets out here. Ill take care of the dog or cat and try to find it a new homes for them
recently a moma cat & her 5 kittens good found homes for them all.

[ribeye1974]

The price on G&L is reasonable because they are not number one and they focus on building a quality product. G and F are into marketing a bunch of artist models and that raises the price.

I didn't actually look into gibson or fenders when comparing prices and shopping, I already knew I didn't want either... and nice adoptions Darwin!

So, from what I gather, it just comes down to markup on the other brands then...?.. Sound about right?

[Skyhawk]

In my opinion, for strat style guitars if you go boutique, its a lot of labor and one or two people sometimes with hands on. Also they may (may) take more time in choosing a certain grain of wood you like etc. which is going to make the cost very high. Fender is a "huge" company and name, so they get the prices they ask. G&L is much smaller, sell alot less, and are not as well known = G&L being a much better buy and bargain with as good and IMO better quality guitar. I personally see no reason to look for a strat or tele style guitar anywhere else than G&L. There is just something homestyle when it comes to them.
skyhawk

[Boogie Bill]

Playing catsup...

My first G&Ls, a Legacy and an S-500, were bought after I'd sold my 1960 strat following my divorce in 1990. I really like these guitars because they address so many of the weaknesses of a vintage Strat while keeping the vintage character.

I don't know why more people don't buy into G&L. I think a lot of it is advertising. IMO, the ad campaigns have been weak. I've shown the guitars to people and they love 'em, but they just don't buy them. Fine with me, I'm happy that I've bought so many so cheap, and I'll leave it up to my heirs to (hopefully) sell high.

I'm the guy with the incredible collection that everybody else wants. But I do wish that back in 1973 I would have bought the Gretsch Country Club a friend owned. He let me borrow it after my gear was stolen. Not my style at the time, but it was a great andd gorgeous guitar.

No pets since our little kitty Magic passed away a few years ago. That was hard.

Bill

[meowmix]

Doing some research. Over and over in the internet, and I do understand it does not include everyone.
The consensus is 11/16 preferred over 5/8. No more 5/8th for me. Which means everything on eBay and in the stores.
Some people will not even look at 5/8. If G&L were to widen the default, I bet the used market will be more active, prices will go up.

5/8 - small hands
11/16 - medium
3/4 - large

Look at Jerry signature model. He uses 3/4. George Lynch uses 3/4 and 11/16.
Good luck finding a used G&L at 11/16 and 3/4.

[ribeye1974]

Playing catsup...

My first G&Ls, a Legacy and an S-500, were bought after I'd sold my 1960 strat following my divorce in 1990. I really like these guitars because they address so many of the weaknesses of a vintage Strat while keeping the vintage character.

I don't know why more people don't buy into G&L. I think a lot of it is advertising. IMO, the ad campaigns have been weak. I've shown the guitars to people and they love 'em, but they just don't buy them. Fine with me, I'm happy that I've bought so many so cheap, and I'll leave it up to my heirs to (hopefully) sell high.

I'm the guy with the incredible collection that everybody else wants. But I do wish that back in 1973 I would have bought the Gretsch Country Club a friend owned. He let me borrow it after my gear was stolen. Not my style at the time, but it was a great andd gorgeous guitar.

No pets since our little kitty Magic passed away a few years ago. That was hard.

Bill

Thanks for the responses Bill. I guess others loss is G&L buyers gain when it comes to them not being more popular. Sorry to hear you had your gear stolen... and yeah, losing a pet is never easy....

[ribeye1974]

Doing some research. Over and over in the internet, and I do understand it does not include everyone.
The consensus is 11/16 preferred over 5/8. No more 5/8th for me. Which means everything on eBay and in the stores.
Some people will not even look at 5/8. If G&L were to widen the default, I bet the used market will be more active, prices will go up.

5/8 - small hands
11/16 - medium
3/4 - large

Look at Jerry signature model. He uses 3/4. George Lynch uses 3/4 and 11/16.
Good luck finding a used G&L at 11/16 and 3/4.

Hmmm... first someone's mentioned the nut width, nice post! You might be onto something with the wider nuts being more popular! I have medium to large hands, not fat and wide type large, long fingers, wide palms, however, I learned on a 5/8's nut, so it's just what I'm used to... I do play guitars with the wider nuts, but the 5/8" work for me, but, that's just me...

[patricks]

Roy- You are the first person that I have ever heard of to start their G&L collection with a Commanche guitar.

Count me as the second! Mine's a Tribute series, but as good as an MIJ strat, I reckon. I had my local tech cut a bone nut for it last week and it just keeps getting better.

That is truly bad ass, and I urge you to learn that guitar with an open mind because it is far more powerful than any strat style guitar the you have used previously.

Yes. Yes it is.

G&L question: My guess is G&L is high quality but relatively low in price because of the way they handle technology and marketing. They've adopted tech in all the right ways (the technology serves the building of fine guitars, not the other way round) and they don't spend an excessive amount of time or money on marketing, so that keeps costs down. They seem to grow organically, by word of mouth and reputation, through players and dealers. A slower growth strategy than flashy ads and star endorsements, but it makes for a better product and happier customers (I, for one, am glad that I'm not paying the salaries of two dozen marketing execs, or funding the guitars of some star I don't really give two <censored word> for)

Non-G&L question: My wife and I are both veterinarians, so we have a motley crew of strays and shelter animals. 2 dogs, 2 cats - the dogs are a maltese cross and a kelpie cross, the cats are moggies (or "domestic shorthairs" - people tend to get annoyed when you write "moggy" in their pet's records). To be completely honest, I don't really get along with the cats - one has the most piercing yowl and uses it like a weapon, the other came to me "just until we find it a new home", but it's never left and I've never really bonded with it. But, they need a home, so here they stay.
I used to have a rescued cockatiel and my wife and I helped with a greyhound rescue mob at one stage - seriously lovely dogs, too, if you're looking for a dog check out the local greyhound rescue. Really sweet personalities and very low maintenance - I swear they're cats trapped in dog bodies, all they want to do is lay in a sunny patch all day

Back to G&L, as far as the nut width goes I'm not too fussed. My Tribute Comanche has a 5/8 nut, but the nut on my classical guitar is nearly 2" wide and they both fit under my fingers just fine. If I built a custom G&L, it'd have a wider nut, but I don't find myself thinking that the one on my guitar is too skinny. For me, it's more about neck width and profile for comfort than nut width, but that's just me

[meowmix]

Doing some research. Over and over in the internet, and I do understand it does not include everyone.
The consensus is 11/16 preferred over 5/8. No more 5/8th for me. Which means everything on eBay and in the stores.
Some people will not even look at 5/8. If G&L were to widen the default, I bet the used market will be more active, prices will go up.

5/8 - small hands
11/16 - medium
3/4 - large

Look at Jerry signature model. He uses 3/4. George Lynch uses 3/4 and 11/16.
Good luck finding a used G&L at 11/16 and 3/4.

Hmmm... first someone's mentioned the nut width, nice post! You might be onto something with the wider nuts being more popular! I have medium to large hands, not fat and wide type large, long fingers, wide palms, however, I learned on a 5/8's nut, so it's just what I'm used to... I do play guitars with the wider nuts, but the 5/8" work for me, but, that's just me...

Do the internet search. People who switched were happy with the results. And I do believe the guitar will be easier to sell if it had 11/16 or larger nut. Next guitar get the wider nut.

[meowmix]

Back to G&L, as far as the nut width goes I'm not too fussed. My Tribute Comanche has a 5/8 nut, but the nut on my classical guitar is nearly 2" wide and they both fit under my fingers just fine. If I built a custom G&L, it'd have a wider nut, but I don't find myself thinking that the one on my guitar is too skinny. For me, it's more about neck width and profile for comfort than nut width, but that's just me

I suggest searching internet over 11/16 and 3/4 nut. If you have large hands, 3/4 might be a better fit.

G&L has an advantage over other companies about this. My gripe is the default should be 11/16 and custom order should be the 3/4 and 5/8. Other guitar manufactures will not let you choose a 3/4 option. Shur being one. Carvin another. Tom Anderson. on and on it goes......
Give praise to G&L for giving us this option. We have it good here. Just no one does neck replacements, which is another topic.

[astutzmann]

Lunch was a nice club sandwich with minestrone soup, yumm.

G&Ls are cheaper in price, do to marketing I think. I have seen a store here, convert and get rid of their G&Ls and go all fender. Marketing. The kids are all name brand aware. They want a fender, period.

One of my teacher's students (teenager) bought a Gibson LP (a cheapie, dont know the model number) and my teacher said it was a piece of S&*t. But he had to have a Gibson.

Too bad.

My special deluxe was ordered with a #3 neck which is wider, its cool, just different.

Sorry, I like dogs, but haven't had one since I was a kid. No pets, not even fish, although I've always wanted a salt water tank with exotic fish!

Alf

[Goat]

Lunch was from Subway. I prefer to cook all my own food, but Thursdays I'm out of town and based next to a Subway so it's the easy option!

G&L Question: Why/how can G&L beat everyone else in price, and seemingly, quality?
Even under BBE I think the company is loyal to Leo's original vision. Seems he cared about what he produced more than becoming rich. He was driven by vision and innovation more than money - if he wasn't, I think he would have just retired after selling Fender and never worked again. We benefit from the fact he cared more about guitars than marketing.

Non G&L question: Rescue animals.
Only one at the moment, and it will probably outlive us! It's a tortoise. Last cat was put down 3 weeks ago - it was 16 when we adopted it and we knew it had cancer. Just wanted to give it attention and great food for its last 6 months of life.
Previous 2 cats we got as kittens and they were with us 12 an 15 years. They were bought by a couple down the road who worked long hours and used to chuck the kittens out of the house first thing so they were out in all weathers. When the snow came we went to see them and asked of they had really wanted cats in the first place. They said "have them if you'll give them a better life", so we did.

It's great to adopt animals, take them out of a miserable existence caused by human indifference and neglect, and give them a good life. But it's easy to forget, living in wealthy western cultures, that many humans in underdeveloped countries live lives worse than most animals in animal shelters, and do so for the same reasons of human indifference to suffering.

[guitar_ed]

Over the last 20+ years my wife and I have rescued 5 cats. 2 from rough living, 1 from a shelter, and our current 2 from a relative moving to HI. All 5 domestic short hairs, all 5 good critters.

edg

[ribeye1974]

Over the last 20+ years my wife and I have rescued 5 cats. 2 from rough living, 1 from a shelter, and our current 2 from a relative moving to HI. All 5 domestic short hairs, all 5 good critters.

edg

Nice!

[yowhatsshakin]

Howdy Roy,

Unexpectedly I find myself having some spare cycles after a late lunch: tomato soup with chicken and mushrooms and a cup of tea.

My first G&L is a cherryburst Legacy Special but is should have been an orange ASAT Classic if I would have had the wherewithal (and money) the first time I visited the now defunct Zobrist music store in Seattle. And the difference is pretty clear if you have tried some Fenders not much earlier in the day at the local GC, even before looking at the price tag. How they do it? I think through craftsmanship, attention to detail, and staying small so they can focus on proper batch management to reduce work in progress and cost of delay. Not having to pay for enormous square footage of large assembly halls and/or warehouses for instance makes a huge difference. It might well be that although their prices are generally lower, their profit margins per instrument may handily beat Fender or Gibson after you start correcting for all the hidden costs and overhead. And the McLarens have great business sense IMHO; they will increase prices when necessary or discontinue certain options (like gold hardware) when the markets dictate.

Our male kitten (Mocha) is 'roaring' for food while the female (Layla) is head butting the iMac as I write.

- Jos

[ribeye1974]

Howdy Roy,

Unexpectedly I find myself having some spare cycles after a late lunch: tomato soup with chicken and mushrooms and a cup of tea.

My first G&L is a cherryburst Legacy Special but is should have been an orange ASAT Classic if I would have had the wherewithal (and money) the first time I visited the now defunct Zobrist music store in Seattle. And the difference is pretty clear if you have tried some Fenders not much earlier in the day at the local GC, even before looking at the price tag. How they do it? I think through craftsmanship, attention to detail, and staying small so they can focus on proper batch management to reduce work in progress and cost of delay. Not having to pay for enormous square footage of large assembly halls and/or warehouses for instance makes a huge difference. It might well be that although their prices are generally lower, their profit margins per instrument may handily beat Fender or Gibson after you start correcting for all the hidden costs and overhead. And the McLarens have great business sense IMHO; they will increase prices when necessary or discontinue certain options (like gold hardware) when the markets dictate.

Our male kitten (Mocha) is 'roaring' for food while the female (Layla) is head butting the iMac as I write.

- Jos

Hmmm... great input, thank you... and at the cats....