Tribute Comanche nut slot - flat or radiused?

[patricks]

Hi all,

I have a 2012 Tribute Comanche with a 12" fretboard radius and I'm changing out the standard nut for a TUSQ XL nut from Graph Tech. I got the existing nut out to have a look at it and it's got a flat bottom. The area where it was glued in, though, is right in the middle so I can't tell whether the nut slot is actually flat and the glue just didn't spread to the edges, or if the slot is radiused and the glue didn't spread because the gap between the bottom of the nut and the nut slot got too big.

Here's a photo of the slot, with nut removed, and the glue:

And here's one of the nut sitting on the fretboard, to show the difference between the flat nut and the radius of the fretboard:

Flat vs. radiused will make the difference in which nut I order - by the way, anyone got any tips for getting that glue outta there?
Cheers
Pat

[louis cyfer]

i would seriously consider having a good tech putting the nut in, there is a lot more to it than using a precut nut.

[patricks]

Fair enuf

These Graph Tech products are marketed as DIY (the video on the StewMac site makes it look quite straightforward) and I was feeling confident after doing a setup on the guitar last weekend, so I thought I could do it but I certainly don't want to stuff it up

I still wouldn't mind knowing whether the slot's flat or radiused, though. Partly out of curiosity but also so that I could order the right part in advance and go to the tech with nut in hand (rude pun not intended...)

[louis cyfer]

it looks flat. don't get the preslotted nut though, get the blank one. good techs make the nuts from scratch to fit YOUR guitar. also, there are much better materials than the graphtech, like the delron 500cl for nuts.

[patricks]

it looks flat.

Yup, I think so - I put a straight edge across the slot and there was no wiggle

don't get the preslotted nut though, get the blank one. good techs make the nuts from scratch to fit YOUR guitar. also, there are much better materials than the graphtech, like the delron 500cl for nuts.

Thanks, I'll look into that. On the upside, the setup I did last weekend has pretty much cured the tuning instability problems I was having, so I don't need to rush to get the new nut.

Thanks heaps!

[meowmix]

I agree with Louis. Get a tech to do the job RIGHT.
The Graphtech is pure market mumbo jumbo. It is nothing but plastic...Plastic!
Bone does fine.

As for the curvature of the fret board. I thought Graphtech makes one for that.
There hasn't been much discussion about DIY nut replacement on this board. What about others?
If I can do the job myself, I would, but this DIY project is a no-go. It would be cheaper and the quality be so much better sending to a tech.
First you have to buy all the special tools to do the job. And how often do you plan to use them? It has been over 15 years since I had the nut replaced on one of my G&Ls.
You see, the price and time you spend on it, just isn't worth it. imo.

[patricks]

Cool, thanks for the reply

Yup, Graph Tech makes pre-slotted nuts with curved bases and also with flat bases. The nut with a curved base actually has a tab on the bottom so it can be used on necks that have a flat nut slot (you just file it off if you've got a radiused nut slot), but then there's empty space between the bottom of the nut slot and the curved base of the nut on either side of the tab. I'd think that'd rob a lot of vibration transfer through the nut to the neck.

I wouldn't be carving a nut myself, that's definitely beyond me at this stage!
The reports on other boards are mixed, some people say "I put in a Graph Tech nut myself, it was easy and sounds good", whereas others say "taking it to a tech to get a hand-cut nut gave me a much better result than I could have done on my own".

[patricks]

Funny, though, according to the AG&B guitar builder, a Graph Tech nut is an upgrade over the standard bone nut for a US-built G&L...

[meowmix]

Funny, though, according to the AG&B guitar builder, a Graph Tech nut is an upgrade over the standard bone nut for a US-built G&L...

The "up" in upgrade is for Up-Charge. Something like $35, for a Down grade material.
You have to be able to read thru the marketing terminology. Otherwise you will buy a freezer in 10 degree weather.

[NickHorne]

Yep, marketing's a blight, and so commonplace we don't even register it some of the time.
Though I did enjoy the Tusq ad in my recent copy of Acoustic Guitar, where the photographer had put the saddle backwards in its slot - interestingly awful intonation must surely have followed. But I imagine he wouldn't have played it, just photographed it.
Don't let marketing BS put you off G&Ls though; they're making the most honest good job of building them really well. Graphtech is personal; I personally really intensely dislike it. It sort of does what cutting good slots and lubing well does to a proper nut, only it dulls the tone in the process.

[Craig]

Funny, though, according to the AG&B guitar builder, a Graph Tech nut is an upgrade over the standard bone nut for a US-built G&L...

When G&L first offered the Graph-Tech nut it was the stock nut on the Legacy Special in 1993.
At the time the stock nut for most of the other guitars was Micarta ("High-Tech" Plastic). Later,
the graphite nut became the stock nut for the Comanche and S-500 models and an option for the
other models.

In 2009, G&L switched from the Micarta nut to a Bone nut on all models, including the Comanche
and S-500. I am not sure about the Legacy Special, as it is still listed on the G&L website as having
the Graph-Tech nut, however, the 2012 US Price List does not mention the graphite nut for the LS
specs, as it had been listed in the past. The Graph-Tech nut remains listed as an option. There is no
mention in the PL that it is an upgrade, but there is a separate charge for it, which, BTW, is less than
was quoted by another poster.

This article in Premier Guitar on various types of nut material might be of interest.

Hope this puts a little history and perspective on the Graph-Tech nut option which G&L offers.

[Craig]

Regarding the nut slot on the Tribute Comanche, I will be attending the Winter NAMM show and will ask
about this. It does look like yours is definitely flat, so that may be the answer that I get.

The nut slot on the US models are radiused as mentioned in this post in the G&L Knowledgebase.

Once I get the answer regarding Tribute Series nut slots, I will update that post to clarify it for US and Tribute Series models.

Stay tuned.

[Lazer]

Patricks, it's easy to fit a preslotted nut, and graphtechs are fine, I have installed quite a few. If You can find a preslotted one with right
string spacing, go for it and do it Yourself. If You can not find a good procedure I can help You.

Cheers
L-zr

[louis cyfer]

Cool, thanks for the reply

Yup, Graph Tech makes pre-slotted nuts with curved bases and also with flat bases. The nut with a curved base actually has a tab on the bottom so it can be used on necks that have a flat nut slot (you just file it off if you've got a radiused nut slot), but then there's empty space between the bottom of the nut slot and the curved base of the nut on either side of the tab. I'd think that'd rob a lot of vibration transfer through the nut to the neck.

I wouldn't be carving a nut myself, that's definitely beyond me at this stage!
The reports on other boards are mixed, some people say "I put in a Graph Tech nut myself, it was easy and sounds good", whereas others say "taking it to a tech to get a hand-cut nut gave me a much better result than I could have done on my own".

most guitar players have never played a guitar that is set up well and have a nut that is properly cut. also depends on your playing level. less advanced players will not notice, nor will be able to utilize an ideal setup to the players preferences. i think the people that say that a preslotted nut self installed works fine, just don't know better. you also need the entire tool kit for nuts, including all the nut files. good techs have a lot of subtle tricks that make the nut work much better. remember, people posting on those forums (especially strat talk) don't necessarily know what they are doing, and unless they have experienced a well cut nut, they simply wouldn't know better.

[MJ Slaughter]

My 2012 Legacy Special's build specs state it has a Graph Tech nut.

I have been playing guitar for 40 years, damn I'm old, and have been performing in bands for most of that time. Over the years I've owned many high-end guitars, had many a nut installed, adjusted, tweaked etc as well as pro setups so I feel I know what a well setup guitar is like. For the past 2 years I've installed and used Graph Tech nuts in several of my guitars because 2 different techs could not cure a buzz originating from the nut on the 1st string or I wanted to change the cheap plastic nuts on some imports for better tuning stability including tremolo use.

IMO:

-Bone nuts sound great for open notes, nothing special past that.
-If you have any DIY skills try installing a precut nut. Unless you aren't carefull removing the existing nut and cleaning the glue left behind you won't screw anything up. If you don't like the results then take it to a tech.
-Graph Tech self lubricating nuts are not like cheap import plastic nuts that can catch the string returning from a bend or tremolo use.
-Use some calipers to measure accurately. Better to buy a nut a little too high and/or thick. You will probably have to do some light sanding to the bottom to adjust the height.

I have 3 nice USA guitars that either came with Graph Tech or has one I installed, and 4 imports that came with plastic nuts and were changed to Graph Tech. 3 of those guitars have floating tremolo that stay in tune after using the tremolo. Even with radical dives they stay in tune pretty well. My USA Strat came with a good nut but using the tremolo was pointless because it always went way out of tune. It was this guitar a tech changed the nut to bone and it was just as bad as the original for tuning stability. Sounds great on open strings though. After I fit the Graph Tech nut to the guitar I haven't been happier with this axe.

There are certain things I won't do myself like fret leveling or changing frets but everything else in the way of standard setups is easy to learn how to do correctly. If using tools and fixing things is not part of your skill set then you should take it to a pro.

[willross]

If in doubt, have a tech do it. Sure it will cost you, but chewing up that fretboard will be more costly...

I have and use Graph Tech (trees, nuts & saddles) and they work nicely. DuPont Delrin 500CL is good too...


Cheers,

Will

[patricks]

Thanks, everyone, for all the great responses!

Craig, thanks for the link to that Premier Guitar article, interesting read. I've got reasonable DIY skills so I could handle putting in a pre-slotted nut, but Louis' post about a well set up, properly cut nut has me interested. I'll have a chat to the tech near me and go from there

[Its_Him_Again]

If the guitar is in your hands, with the nut already out, and you can't tell whether the nut slot has a flat bottom or a curved bottom, you really should take it to a repair person.

I am not sure if the detractors realize it or not, but Tusq and Tusq XL are two different products. Tusq is just plastic. But Tusq XL is self lubricating plastic...and it works, though it must be properly installed, like any nut.

A properly installed Tusq XL nut (black or white) absolutely works better than a properly installed bone nut, if you are a "heavy" vibrato user. And by that, I mean actually using it to precisely bend notes up and down, not just to give it a little wiggle here or there. They take nothing away over a bone nut, and only cost 5 cents more for a blank at the place I get my stuff from.

[patricks]

If the guitar is in your hands, with the nut already out, and you can't tell whether the nut slot has a flat bottom or a curved bottom, you really should take it to a repair person.

The post was more to double-check than anything else, but I get what you're saying. I just wanted to be extra careful

[Craig]

Regarding the nut slot on the Tribute Comanche, I will be attending the Winter NAMM show and will ask
about this. It does look like yours is definitely flat, so that may be the answer that I get.

The nut slot on the US models are radiused as mentioned in this post in the G&L Knowledgebase.

Once I get the answer regarding Tribute Series nut slots, I will update that post to clarify it for US and Tribute Series models.

Stay tuned.

I have gotten the answer on the Tribute Series model nuts. They have a flat bottom and the slot is flat.
I have updated this G&L Knowledgebase post: Are G&L nuts curved or flat on the bottom?

[patricks]

Great, thanks heaps!

[Twang]

I have just installed a Earvana Compensated nut on my G&L Tribute Comanche and what an improvement it made on sound. I can hear a big difference compared to that plastic nut.
I would highly recommend changing out the plastic nut and replacing it with a Earvana, you will not be sorry. Hey Craig have you heard of these compensated nuts, I guess they have been out for a while but it does make a great improvement on the Tribute Comanche.

[louis cyfer]

I have just installed a Earvana Compensated nut on my G&L Tribute Comanche and what an improvement it made on sound. I can hear a big difference compared to that plastic nut.
I would highly recommend changing out the plastic nut and replacing it with a Earvana, you will not be sorry. Hey Craig have you heard of these compensated nuts, I guess they have been out for a while but it does make a great improvement on the Tribute Comanche.

do you play a lot of open strings? do you notice a big difference between open and fretted notes now, or did you before?

[Twang]

Louis, Yes I do notice a big difference in the open and fretted notes it was like pulling the cork out of it. Of course the plastic nut kills your tone, especially your sustain.
It was a excellent Mod for the Tribute. Some of my friends told me they use to make the Earvana out of plastic, but they have reinvented it with some sort of graphite material.
Works good and I am a lot happier .

[louis cyfer]

Louis, Yes I do notice a big difference in the open and fretted notes it was like pulling the cork out of it. Of course the plastic nut kills your tone, especially your sustain.
It was a excellent Mod for the Tribute. Some of my friends told me they use to make the Earvana out of plastic, but they have reinvented it with some sort of graphite material.
Works good and I am a lot happier .

changing the nut has zero effect on the tone of the fretted notes. so either the open and fretted notes sounded similar before with the plastic nut, and now sound drastically different, or they sound similar now, and sounded very different before. i was asking about the difference in sound between the open and fretted notes after the nut change.

[Twang]

Louis
I was told by a guitar tech that the Earvana is not intended to help open chords sound better at all, but rather to help your mid and upper chords 7-12th fret sound better.
I believe when you intonate a normal guitar you are setting it up for open chords, and the further up the neck you go the worse that damn b string sounds, the Earvana was created to fix all that. Problem is any traditionally fretted instrument is going to have intonation issues, the system of fret locations used today is flawed. The only folks who have "solved" it are True Temperament, and even then it's not a great option.

[suave eddie]

I think you guys are discussing two separate issues. Lucifer is correct in that the nut material has no sonic effect on fretted notes, but Mr Twang I believe is referring to intonation issues addressed by the compensated nut.

[Twang]

I apologize for making things difficult. All I am saying that it made a lot better sound when I installed the Earvana nut, I defiantly could hear the difference.

[suave eddie]

All I am saying that it made a lot better sound when I installed the Earvana nut

Well now you are confusing me............
Are you saying that the fretted notes actually have a different sonic quality with a new nut? This is a physical impossibility--should be obvious....This is the whole point of the "zero" fret on some guitars..to take the nut completely out of the equation on open strings.
If you are referring strictly to intonation issues that is a different matter.