Which ASAT for Blues?

Michael-GnL-Michael · Post by **Michael-GnL-Michael** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:27 pm

There are a lot of posts that mention ASAT and blues. So I thought that I would just ask the question even though it may have been covered previously. If you know of a good thread on the subject and can post a link, thank you in advance.

I am wondering which ASAT model gets really good blues tones worth mentioning. I am pretty sure they all get a blues tone, it is also subjective and there are many things that factor into a blues tone including the amp. I would still like to hear comments on the topic.

I am primarily interested in the cleaner tones.

Ribsspare · Post by **Ribsspare** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:49 am

Blues Boy

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Ribsspare wrote:Blues Boy

Michael, you wouldn't have expected any other answer would you?

But as far as Ribsspare's suggestion is concerned: +1.

- Jos

jonc · Post by **jonc** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:45 pm

Michael - it might be helpful if you list some players/tones that you like and that best capture the "clean" blues tone you're looking for. So much of blues guitar is crunchy so when I think clean I think BB and that ilk. In any event my pick would be an ASAT with large MFD's or the already mentioned BB.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:11 am

Recently I heard a local band play a blues song, and the guitar player used an ASAT Special.
It was a clean tone with an edge to it. Man that really sounded great!
I will try to find a clip of it, and post it.

Michael-GnL-Michael · Post by **Michael-GnL-Michael** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:24 am

It is a good idea presenting examples. I am searching.

I am interested in the terminology people use to describe tone. I am not sure everyone is consistent with regards to definitions. In my search this evening I heard a good term "beefy clean" and immediately figured my idea of the description is probably different than that of other people. Even though it is a Strat, Stevie Ray Vaughan often played using a clean tone that could be described as "beefy clean."

Another term "metal" means something other than what it sounds like. I don't know how that came to be. Setting aside what we all think of as "heavy metal," "metal" is a good word to describe the sound of beefy strings with a full range of tone played on the clean side. That is how I would describe SRV's sound. Of course SRV also punched up the overdrive for some songs but the general tone he used was not dirty, distorted, fuzzy. It was a powerful clean(er) tone that had strong bass, mids and highs. His guitar seemed to have almost as much bass presence as a bass. Subtract the Strat character and insert the Tele character and you have what I am thinking of. I just can't readily come up with examples. I will find some though.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:14 am

Unlike country with telecasters or metal with superstrats, blues has, IMO, no particular archetypal guitar.

That sound you are describing is a cranked 6L6 tube amp - fat, loud and glassy. If you're chasing the SRV tone you might just be better of with a Legacy to get that deep, boinky neck pickup sound.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:55 am

I think you can play the blues on any guitar, but anyway, here's the clip i promised. Sound quality is bad...
Notification: This is not the music I would normally listen to

, but it's always nice to see an ASAT special in action!

[youtube]1Wd5_nzD4ws[/youtube]

He seems to have a G&L deal:

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:02 pm

Hi Ivo,

As far as the video goes: BLØF it ain't

- Jos

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:38 pm

Haha! That's right Jos. But Pascal gets his tele's made by a luthier near where I live, Sjak Zwier. It would be nice to see Pascal with a ASAT special. That wouldn't be wrong at all

.

Michael-GnL-Michael · Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:05 am

Any guitar can be used for blues, I agree as many might agree with that idea. I probably should have spent more time choosing the words in my thread title. The answer as it stands is ...all of them.

I have not heard all of the ASATs but I can tell the difference between a Strat, a Les Paul and a Tele.

Any guitar can be used for the blues but I was hoping to define some flavors in the form of the various ASATs.

One way I would describe the difference between a Tele and Strat is that the Tele is sharp and solid in ways that the Strat is round and hollow, speaking of audio. They both are glassy and shimmery, if these words are not usually targeting the same thing.

I referred to SRV because the tone has a few characteristics I was hoping to point out. I used the word "metal" earlier. The metal I am thinking of and hearing is like flapping sheet metal on key. There is a large full range tone with dynamic bass included. However, the distinct Strat character (if used) can be separated from that sound. I have heard a Tele type guitar in its place and it retains the flapping sheet metal with dynamic bass and full range of clear tone yet with a Tele character. One might say that the common denominator must be the sound of the amp. That also can be set aside while the different shades of guitar are defined.

It will probably require more imagination mixed with reality, limited knowledge and experience if this can be discussed at all because the ideal situation is rare, as in having all of the guitars with the amp to compare.

I did not have time to look for examples today. Still in process....

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:51 am

Michael, it was an interesting question. It’s just almost impossible to answer.

When you choose the obvious, like a Strat, Les Paul, or to stay within G&L, a Bluesboy or a Legacy, that would be safe, but could also get a bit boring… Choosing the less obvious, might lead to new roads and give you insperation.
Any ASAT would be great. What about a Z-3! Listen to Will Ray's amazing blues tone, one of the best around.
What ever you choose, you can’t go wrong. But it could take years to get where you want. It's a lifetime search.

helle-man · Post by **helle-man** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:19 am

All G&L's are good for blues. And none of them are. Both statements are true. It all depends on how good of a blues player you are.

From my perspective, I classify guitars into 2 types - single coil and humbucker. I will adjust pedals and amps to make either pickup sound "bluesy".

I personally prefer Z coils because of their hum-canceling nature, but in reality I can play blues on any G&L guitar. And country. And rock, jazz, whatever...

That said, I still believe playing the blues is in your fingers, not the guitar.

My 2¢

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:21 am

Speak of the devil and he will appear

That said, I still believe playing the blues is in your fingers, not the guitar.

Yes, that's what you find out in the end.

wrigman · Post by **wrigman** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:29 am

The one ASAT I have not seen mentioned here is the ASAT Classic S. They are a Custom Creations Shop ASAT well worth seeking out. These things are TONE MACHINES!! there are seven different pickup combos. It has two ASAT pickups and an S500 pickup in the center. There is a five way switch, plus a push/pull volume switch for more pickup combo's. If the tone you are looking for isn't there, it dosent exist!

P.S. If anyone has one of these in mint cond with 6105 jumbo frets that they would like to trade for a "Mary K" Blues Boy with 6105's that is in mint cond, hit me up. I might be intrested...

Miles Smiles · Post by **Miles Smiles** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:32 pm

yowhatsshakin wrote: As far as the video goes: BLØF it ain't

Hard to believe, but most of them (or at least two

), the same guys:

[youtube]OTCsFkRLAJM[/youtube]

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:46 pm

Yes, that's right. Funny you found this! This'concert at sea' is a festival near where I live. This year it was cancelled the second day due to heavy storm. The ASAT special is a versatile instrument, right?

Next one on my list.

Mama Sam · Post by **Mama Sam** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:46 pm

Very good band, video.
With regard to the question. I think the Asat Classic does have a rawer sound for the blues.

But there is no exact rule.

sirmyghin · Post by **sirmyghin** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:01 pm

Ivo wrote:Yes, that's right. Funny you found this! This'concert at sea' is a festival near where I live. This year it was cancelled the second day due to heavy storm. The ASAT special is a versatile instrument, right? Next one on my list.

The specials pickups can do anything you want it to. They drive really well, especially considering they are single coils.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:55 pm

I think that WR makes an excellent point and I think that he could make any one of my guitars sound like he wanted it to. It is the player who makes the guitar sound good. The Carvin bass that Timothy B from the Eagles endorsed only had a volume control. Your amp is a very important tool in my opinion and if you have a good guitar, the rest is a result of what you do with it. Old and getting older --Darwin

Michael-GnL-Michael · Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:48 pm

I agree that what you do makes a huge difference and maybe even most of the difference but playing the blues and a blues tone are different topics. This does not mean they have nothing to do with one another. You can play blues with a shinning electric tone, ukulele or even a toy instrument while every instrument does not have a blues tone. (See below: Billy Gibbons probably plays the widest and weirdest range of guitars including furry, inflatable and otherwise crazy guitars along with a '57 Les Paul yet you cannot tell them apart. He sounds like Billy Gibbons with any of them).

I now have yet another flavor of ASAT to research, the WIll Wray with Z-Coils. There was a beautiful red one on ebay a while back.

People tend to generalize excessively unless they are held to precision. The typical Joe, pro, aspiring pro, amateur, hobbyist and even non-player-fan.................this large group accepts vague cliche and street cool jargon as standard vocabulary for music. As the spectrum spans further towards the listener side, things become increasingly vague. Yet the "whatever" point is reached quickly no matter where your position is. I know many people believe this is a subject that can't be discussed. It is a perpetual state of ambiguity never giving it enough consideration due to believing it is something that can't be considered with depth and precision.......a self-fulfilling prophecy. (See below: Keith Wyatt nails things on the head when describing music. He does not waste words and is an excellent musician and teacher).

Here are some examples showing blues played through bad tone, no tone, fat dirty tone, the natural bluesy tone of the Tele/ASAT, blues using that flapping sheet metal tone with a Tele and Strat and that flapping sheet metal tone with a Tele while not playing a particularly bluesy lead.

1. Here is a musician that has blue blood flowing through his veins yet I think this is the worst tone a Tele style guitar can produce:

Jonny Lang:

[youtube]2TK3X2djj24[/youtube]

2. Here is another blue blooded musician using a plain old acoustic guitar.

Lightnin' Hopkins:

[youtube]cFN9lebEvF0[/youtube]

3. Here is a modern musician drawing heavily upon the likes of Hopkins, Bobby "Blue" Bland, and Muddy Waters using a custom Crazy Cowboy guitar.

Billy Gibbons:

[youtube]UYeI3AUCrYs[/youtube]

4. Here is that sheet metal flapping on key with full range tone using a Strat:

The John Mayer Trio:

[youtube]bWv3cZOBgpM[/youtube]

5. Here is an quiet example of bluesy noodling using a beautiful G&L ASAT Classic (BTW, I do not know who this person is):

A guy named Gary

[youtube]NN-aIQ9bTh0[/youtube]

6. Here is the flapping sheet metal on key used with a Tele for a not-so-bluesy riff lesson.

Jeff Marshall

[youtube]gREbqTByNxU[/youtube]

7. Another lesson with the flapping sheet metal tone playing the blues with a Strat.

Keith Wyatt

[youtube]7vUsfG2lUIs[/youtube]

SouthpawGuy · Post by **SouthpawGuy** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:45 am

What a load of nonsense guys !

Doesn't everybody know that a blue guitar is absolutely required to play the blues ?

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:45 am

Indeed!

wrigman · Post by **wrigman** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:55 am

Well now, THAT does it! I have GOT to get rid of that "Mary Kay" white thing I have now!!!

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:06 pm

Michael-GnL-Michael wrote: Billy Gibbons probably plays the widest and weirdest range of guitars including furry, inflatable and otherwise crazy guitars along with a '57 Les Paul yet you cannot tell them apart. He sounds like Billy Gibbons with any of them).

That's partly because Billy Gibbons has an EQ thing in his rack which is there for the purpose of making all of his guitars sound like Pearly Gates, his famous '59 Les Paul.

Agree with you on Jonny Langs tone. Not very good at all, his is a brand of blues I could never get into. That clip of Lightnin' Hopkins is an electric guitar, BTW.

The flapping sheet metal thing. As I suspected, it's a neck single coil into a loud tube amp which is just at the point of breaking up. Commonly referred to as the SRV tone. And very nice it is too.

Michael-GnL-Michael · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:36 pm

blargfromouterspace wrote:
Michael-GnL-Michael wrote: Billy Gibbons probably plays the widest and weirdest range of guitars including furry, inflatable and otherwise crazy guitars along with a '57 Les Paul yet you cannot tell them apart. He sounds like Billy Gibbons with any of them).
That's partly because Billy Gibbons has an EQ thing in his rack which is there for the purpose of making all of his guitars sound like Pearly Gates, his famous '59 Les Paul.

Yes, his rack and amp have something to do with it. His technique and style are particularly recognizable with characteristics sourced to his fingers and mental phrasing..........much more so than an average of musicians (not to be mistaken for average musician, an average of musicians is a measurement whereas average musician is often pejorative suggesting mediocrity). I do agree the rack is a significant factor. The band has that upside down quality and his guitar always occupies a bassier tone area no matter what type of guitar he is using.

blargfromouterspace wrote:Agree with you on Jonny Langs tone. Not very good at all, his is a brand of blues I could never get into. That clip of Lightnin' Hopkins is an electric guitar, BTW.

There are two guitars layered with one doing flourishes. Not sure if they are both Hopkins. One is acoustic. These are considered acoustics even with built in pickups, rather than electrics. Could be that he used a different guitar on this one. Most of his songs use a plain acoustic. I think it still fits the "no tone" category.

blargfromouterspace wrote:The flapping sheet metal thing. As I suspected, it's a neck single coil into a loud tube amp which is just at the point of breaking up. Commonly referred to as the SRV tone. And very nice it is too.

Thank you for confirming this. I think the Mayer Trio clip is an example of when the band moves the sound to a different level exponentially. Everyone has a defined strength. No one is invisible in the mix. Of course it is only a trio but in this case less is more.

Michael-GnL-Michael · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:43 pm

SouthpawGuy wrote:What a load of nonsense guys !

Doesn't everybody know that a blue guitar is absolutely required to play the blues ?

Funny, I was recently tempted by a gorgeous midnight blue Legacy. If I had only known...

Boogie Bill · Post by **Boogie Bill** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:55 am

I thought the blues was supposed to be played on beat-up ole Stellas and Harmonys that smell of sweat, cigarette smoke and beer... Hmmm.

Actually, I love my ASAT Deluxe for blues, even though my Number ONE is a Legacy--and I prefer a Les Paul or a 335 for my 2HB tones.

But the AD really cops BB King's tone to a tee. I think it is the DF Vibrato, and the routing for the springs and stuff, that gives this particular AD a very open, airy, and resonant thinline-type tone.

Still, there is something inherently wrong about singing and playing the blues on a $2,000 guitar with a gorgeous flame maple top and a fast birdseye maple neck with the reddest rosewood board you ever saw--especially when it looks like a million bucks!

See what I mean!!!

Bill

NickHorne · Post by **NickHorne** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:46 pm

Michael-GnL-Michael, are we talking about a Stratty Asat, perhaps?
Perhaps try to get some time with a Z3.
This might prove good, and if you ever did want to ring changes, you're only a plate - change away from different pup choices, no routing. And the weird dread that's sometimes spread around about the "swimming pool" is, in this humble opinion, totally meaningless. The class of the blues in my fingers is not for me to judge, but my ears and fingers do like my Will Ray Z3...

Dave_P · Post by **Dave_P** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:40 pm

Miles Smiles wrote:
yowhatsshakin wrote: As far as the video goes: BLØF it ain't
Hard to believe, but most of them (or at least two ), the same guys:

[youtube]OTCsFkRLAJM[/youtube]

This is off topic a bit, sorry, but did anyone else notice at the end of that video that guy's ASAT has a string ferrule block on the back? Does he have a string through saddle lock bridge?

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:51 am

This is off topic a bit, sorry, but did anyone else notice at the end of that video that guy's ASAT has a string ferrule block on the back? Does he have a string through saddle lock bridge?

Well, I unraveled it for you. Here is the story:

Jaap (that's his name) wanted a ASAT Special Rustic, but these are only as ASAT Classic available . So this one is rebuilt by the Dutch importers' luthier, which was a lot of work, and apparently a secret.

I got this information form the importer. (So don't put this on the internet

)

Dave_P · Post by **Dave_P** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:54 am

Ivo wrote:
This is off topic a bit, sorry, but did anyone else notice at the end of that video that guy's ASAT has a string ferrule block on the back? Does he have a string through saddle lock bridge?
Well, I unraveled it for you. Here is the story:

Jaap (that's his name) wanted a ASAT Special Rustic, but these are only as ASAT Classic available . So this one is rebuilt by the Dutch importers' luthier, which was a lot of work, and apparently a secret.

I got this information form the importer. (So don't put this on the internet )

Thanks Ivo, very interesting indeed

-Dave

upfront guitars · Post by **upfront guitars** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:29 am

As somebody said you can play the blues on almost anything. It's a state of mind. However my picks would be a Legacy, standard or Legacy HB. They will give you the traditional blues tones of legions of Stratocaster players. Also, the ASAT Classic Custom is a very overlooked guitar that has a great pickup setup. It's got a slightly fatter version of the Large MFD in the neck and the ASAT Classic Tele bridge assembly. So you can get throaty neck tones and bright but thick Tele bridge sound. Both pickups have good output and drive pedals very well. It's a guitar with a lot of character. http://www.upfrontguitars.com/G-and-L-C ... burst.html

Guitars by Leo (aka "GbL")

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