Intonation Low E and B

[otis66]

2010 G&L Comanche. I have ADG and e string intonated at 12 fret. Low E and B string is sharp and saddle is all the way back. Now what?

[sirmyghin]

so wait your B (as in the high one, you are not trying to tune down 2.5 steps on it right?) and Low E won't intonate? I would set the saddles a lot more forward and start over, intonation can be a funny thing when you get really far off.

[Elwood]

You might have to cut the spring in half or remove it if you just need a little more on the Low E.
If you do this I'd triple check that everything else is right, and that the string gauge is one you will
want to use, so you don't cut the stock spring unless you really have to.

I don't think I've had to do that with a G&L but plenty other of guitars I've worked on need another 1/8" or so .

I'd take sirmyghin's advice with the high b...I've never had to pull it all the way back.
(and newer strings are a must,old ones get unpredictable with intonation)

good luck !

[otis66]

E,A,D,G,B,e. the low E #6 string will not intonate and the B string #2 string will not intonate. All other strings are intonated at 12th fret.

[otis66]

I'm going to pick up some bridge spings tomorrow and cut them in half.

[Elwood]

You know...I've had bad strings out of the package; you might want to try another b string.
The E string makes sense as it has the highest mass and stiffness , so it needs to have more length to intonate.

The b string should (99.99% of the time)fall between the high e length and the g string length (unless the g string is wound). If it's not then something else is most likely out of adjustment, a bad string is the only thing I can think of, unless you have a buzz feiten or earvana style nut :/

Different brands of strings of the same gauge intonate differently due stiffness,materials,etc.
...so keep that in mind as you work on dialing in your Comanche.

I'd change out the b string and see if you have more typical results .

[Boogie Bill]

Go back to the beginning. Make sure that the guitar's bridge is set to factory specs. (Level bridge plate, floating parallel, 3/16" off the body. Saddles at specified heights, and properly radiused to match the radius of the fretboard.) The neck should have slight relief. If you need to make major changes of the bridge to get the action height you desire, you may need to remove and shim the neck to get the proper action at the 12th fret.

If you get the bridge too far out in any one spec, it throws the whole thing off and you'll have problems. If you take it to a tech for set up, copy the set-up instructions from the FAQ and take it to him to follow. These guitars are NOT Fender Strats, and require different procedures and measurements.

Couple of tips:

Make sure the nut action is proper. I often have to have the nut action lowered on the low e-string to keep the guitar from going sharp at the 3rd fret G.

If you still have trouble getting a string intonated with the saddle all the way back, you can clip the saddle spring in half to get a skosh more room.

Make sure you are intonating with an accurate tuner. The pedal tuners, like the Boss TU-2, or the Boss TU-12 (H) are not accurate enough to set intonation, IMO. The Peterson Strobe-O-Stomp, however is much more accurate, and suitable fo the task.

If you still cannot get the fretted note at the 12th fret in tune with the open strings, you may need some work outside the scope of a set-up. If your guitar is under warranty, you may want to contact your dealer.

And if you've decided to use a 13-60 set detuned to C# or such nonsense, then you are probably SOL. But with a 9-42, 10-46 or 11-49 set you should have plenty of room to get your guitar to intonate accurately.

Good luck!

Bill

[Craig]

I agree with Boogie Bill's post, but because your Comanche is built in 2010, the bridge setting is now 2/16" off the body.
See Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars posted in the Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum.

Hope this helps.

[Ledergeist]

I agree with Boogie Bill's post, but because your Comanche is built in 2010, the bridge setting is now 2/16" off the body.
See Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars posted in the Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum.

Hope this helps.

That would be 1/8....Or .125 inch.... And that's around where all my DF's sit. I always thought the .187 (3/16) guideline was on the high side, great for a slide set-up however....
Sorry, un-reduced fractions are a pet peeve.....

[Craig]

I agree with Boogie Bill's post, but because your Comanche is built in 2010, the bridge setting is now 2/16" off the body.
See Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars posted in the Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum.

Hope this helps.

That would be 1/8....Or .125 inch.... And that's around where all my DF's sit. I always thought the .187 (3/16) guideline was on the high side, great for a slide set-up however....
Sorry, un-reduced fractions are a pet peeve.....

I just quote what John sent me and you will notice (see the Current Factory setups post) that he uses a 32nd/64th ruler for his measuring.

[NickHorne]

Shorter spring / no spring for the low E seems possible, I've had to do that with Strats more than once before, depending on gauges, but your B issue is weird.
You definitely should try at least two more new strings before you go looking deep into setup issues.
AND:
Have you tried measuring from the first fret to the thirteenth, instead of the open string to the twelfth?
If 1st - 13th can be got right, but open - 12th is wrong with the same saddle setting, you may have a nut issue, i.e. the witness point is not at the proper edge of the nut, but some way inside of the slot.

Good luck! Calm and coffee. The answer's in there somewhere, and fixable.

[sirmyghin]

Have you tried measuring from the first fret to the thirteenth, instead of the open string to the twelfth?
If 1st - 13th can be got right, but open - 12th is wrong with the same saddle setting, you may have a nut issue, i.e. the witness point is not at the proper edge of the nut, but some way inside of the slot.

I ma merely quoting this to drive home how important this is to check when adjusting intonation, all told it is much better than open 12 as you have one less area to worry about.

[otis66]

I've never adjusted anything on this guitar but I did check and the bridge is 1/8" or 2/16" from body. I put Ernie Ball 10's on the guitar about 2 weeks ago and this is when I notice a problem. I'm not sure if there is a self life for guitar strings but the Ernie Balls were a round 6 years old. I alson notice buzzing after putting on the Ernie Balls. Today I changed the strings again with A'addario 10's. The intonation is good on all strings except the low E. The buzzing is also gone. The reason I checked the intonation in the first place was because the low E string sounded dull or flat but the string was in tune.

[NickHorne]

Great!
Sounds like your guitar is fine.
If you can't get the low E's saddle to go back far enough, try it without its spring. It may be fine just like that, but if it needs a spring to stay put, you will now have an idea of how long the spring needs to be when compressed, and therefore a good clue as to how long to cut it so as to have some spring pressure when it's compressed.

[Elwood]

Great news,
If you do have to cut the spring , consider cutting in not quite in half,
I usually cut them about 60/40 , that allows a little more flexibility during the trial and error
process.
...and what Nick said : )

[otis66]

Thanks everyone for your help.