Neck Radius

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I have been looking at ASATs (online so far) and noticed most come with the 7 1/2" radius. I know what the 12" radius feels like with my Legacy. Both start at the nut with a 1 5/8" nut width. Is there a significant difference with the ASAT neck? I am thinking not so likely or they would all come with the same necks. I do need to try them but I am also looking for intel in advance.

Thanks

[NickHorne]

You need to check the neck specs for each model, on G&L's site. Further to that, custom orders are possible; see the options on the site. Broadly, these are various combinations of C or V section, fingerboard radii (7.5 or 12 inches), nut widths (1 5/8", 1 11/16", or 1 3/4"), and a moderate range of front-to-back depths. Other options are slab / quartersawn neck, and fingerboard woods + fretwire. There may be more that I don't remember; but it's all easy to find on the site.

[SouthpawGuy]

fwiw I have a few G&Ls and I find it difficult to tell which neck radius I'm playing. If the neck profile from front to back is smaller a 7 1/2" radius is more obvious to me. With a bigger neck a 7 1/2" is less obvious. The medium jumbo frets still make the smaller radius feel a lot different to other guitars that have vintage frets and a 7 1/2" radius.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else , but there you go.

[offplanetfilms]

I'm currently loving the 9" radius on the Tribute necks. It's a very nice in-between compromise feel.

[suave eddie]

[quote]I have been looking at ASATs (online so far) and noticed most come with the 7 1/2" radius.[/quote]

I find this surprising. Anything other than the standard #1 neck with a 12" radius is an upcharge.

When I did my recent shopping around for my ASAT Classic, I found it hard to find any G&L in a store with anything other than the #1. I think I found one #2 with a 7.5" radius and one #1D also with a 12" radius.
Here's the link to all the G&L neck profiles if you haven't seen it:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... guitar.asp

The difference between the 7.5" and 12" is subtle. Here's a link showing the actual curvature of different radii:
http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguardia ... Gauges.pdf

I A/B'd the large and small radius neck extensively prior to ordering. I was used to the 7.5", but didn't necessarily want to pay more for a non standard neck, as I was already ordering many upgrades. After much comparison, I was finally able to discern the difference--the smaller radius made my fingers feel a bit more cramped, and I find the bends are actually a bit easier with the larger radius. Even though the two profiles had the exact same width, the larger radius, to me, felt wider. I finally settled on the #1 neck and am happy I did.

Keep in mind that all the old vintage Fenders had neck radius in the 7" range.

Also if you are looking online-- eBay for example-- for used instruments, many times the seller does not necessarily know what the specs are. If the eBay seller is a dealer selling new instruments of course they should know what they ordered and have the spec sheet.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I have been looking at ASATs (online so far) and noticed most come with the 7 1/2" radius.

I find this surprising. Anything other than the standard #1 neck with a 12" radius is an upcharge.

When I did my recent shopping around for my ASAT Classic, I found it hard to find any G&L in a store with anything other than the #1. I think I found one #2 with a 7.5" radius and one #1D also with a 12" radius.
Here's the link to all the G&L neck profiles if you haven't seen it:
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... guitar.asp...

I did not find where the standard features were clearly declared as such on the G&L website. I did find declarations at Pro Guitar Shop. I have drawn conclusions using the information I could gather from the websites of G&L, Buffalo Bros. and Pro Guitar Shop.

If the #1 C 12" radius neck is standard on all ASATs why is the 7 1/2" radius listed with all of the ASATs except the ASAT Deluxe and Will Ray when you look up the base specs at http://www.glguitars.com?

With the Legacy they all come up with the #1 12" radius C neck.

I took this to mean that all of the ASAT's except the Deluxe and Will Ray come standard with a 7 1/2" radius neck and the Legacy comes standard with the 12" radius neck. What point is there in listing the radius of the guitars used in the examples if they do not suggest a base configuration? No one can see the difference going by the pictures. I figured there had to be a reason for using 7 1/2" radius necks on 12 out of 15 ASAT configurations as well as using the 12" radius on every Legacy shown. This looks like an intentional statement to me.

Only the blue text describes what is unique to the particular guitar shown in the image. The neck radius is listed with the general specs not the unique specs.

I might have missed it on G&L's website but I did not see where a specific neck was listed as standard and have drawn conclusions from the specs listed with the models.

This conclusion is consistent with the base price page at Pro Guitar Shop where only one ASAT model, the ASAT Deluxe, does NOT come with a #2 (7 1/2" radius C) neck standard as well. I did not see the Will Ray for sale there if it is.

From G&L's website :

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

fwiw I have a few G&Ls and I find it difficult to tell which neck radius I'm playing. If the neck profile from front to back is smaller a 7 1/2" radius is more obvious to me. With a bigger neck a 7 1/2" is less obvious. The medium jumbo frets still make the smaller radius feel a lot different to other guitars that have vintage frets and a 7 1/2" radius.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else , but there you go.

Out of all of those G&L's in your collection and even including G&L guitars that you have played but do not own, how would you describe the gamut of neck play between them? The exceptions to ignore would be the ones that simply did not feel right to you in some way. Use a scale of say fast and easy 10 to slower and more deliberate 1 (or choose your own description to suit). The low end is not bad. It is just a style and the guitar"s range. IOW, if you could play very fast what is the percentage that have the neck to allow it? I am trying to focus on the guitar more than the player. Some people could play fast on anything of course.

[suave eddie]

I did not find where the standard features were clearly declared as such on the G&L website. I did find declarations at Pro Guitar Shop. I have draw conclusions using the information I could gather from the websites of G&L, Buffalo Bros. and Pro Guitar Shop.

You are correct in that the G&L website is not that clear and leaves much to be desired. I think they expect you to get your information from their dealers when placing an order.

The best information I got when I was shopping was on the Buffalo Brothers website. They spell out clearly what G&L features are standard and what options are upcharged.

Most people will say that the smaller radius boards are easier to chord, and the larger radius makes bending easier.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

The best information I got when I was shopping was on the Buffalo Brothers website. They spell out clearly what G&L features are standard and what options are upcharged.

I don't see it here
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/gAndL ... ption.html
or here
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/gAndL.html

All necks are listed on the option page but I don't see where it says what is standard.

[SouthpawGuy]

My understanding is that the 7 1/2" radius is standard on all ASATs except the ASAT Deluxe which has a 12" board. Also I believe Legacys, S500s and Invaders use the 12" by default.

[SouthpawGuy]

fwiw I have a few G&Ls and I find it difficult to tell which neck radius I'm playing. If the neck profile from front to back is smaller a 7 1/2" radius is more obvious to me. With a bigger neck a 7 1/2" is less obvious. The medium jumbo frets still make the smaller radius feel a lot different to other guitars that have vintage frets and a 7 1/2" radius.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else , but there you go.

Out of all of those G&L's in your collection and even including G&L guitars that you have played but do not own, how would you describe the gamut of neck play between them? The exceptions to ignore would be the ones that simply did not feel right to you in some way. Use a scale of say fast and easy 10 to slower and more deliberate 1 (or choose your own description to suit). The low end is not bad. It is just a style and the guitar"s range. IOW, if you could play very fast what is the percentage that have the neck to allow it? I am trying to focus on the guitar more than the player. Some people could play fast on anything of course.

Of the G&Ls that I own the Legacys, S500s and Invader have less variance from guitar to guitar than the ASATs. That is taking into consideration that the older G&Ls I have all have thinner neck profiles compared to the more recent guitars.

Presumably the ASATs vary more because several dealers order them with a 12" radius as opposed to the 7 1/2" "norm". Or has the #1 neck / 12" radius become the norm on ASATs ?

Personally the neck size / profile on a guitar is not a major concern when buying a guitar, lots of players are particular about width, thickness at the nut and 12th fret, fingerboard radius etc. I don't really mind, 90% of my guitars are bought unseen or unplayed by me. If I was ordering a new G&L from a dealer I would go for a 12" radius.

What is more of a deal breaker for me is the fret size, really low frets are not a favourite of mine. I find bends and vibrato easier with medium jumbo frets. For example my ASAT Special Deluxe has a 7 1/2" radius board with medium jumbo frets, but the neck feels and plays nothing like my '78 Strat with a 7 1/2" board and small frets. The neck profile is also different on the ASAT, it fills the hand more but it's still not a big neck.

My ASAT Bluesboy semi has a 12" radius board and a seriously big chunky neck, I don't know what # neck it is, it feels and plays different to the Special Deluxe. My ASAT Classic Custom also has a really chunky neck and I'm not even certain what radius is on that one. I've never measured the necks on any of them to be honest, or taken the necks off to find out.

It's not a deal breaker for me if the necks are different, each guitar has it's own character which is something I really like.

[suave eddie]

I don't see it here
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/gAndL ... ption.html
or here
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/gAndL.html

You're right again--I guess it wasn't until I actually talked to Tim from BB that I got it clarified--Unless otherwise stated the #1 neck with jumbo frets is the standard default neck profile for all USA models.

[SouthpawGuy]

Any idea how long that has been the case ? The G&L site still lists a #2 neck with 7 1/2" radius for all of the ASATs except the Deluxe or Will Ray Signature model.

[suave eddie]

Any idea how long that has been the case ? The G&L site still lists a #2 neck with 7 1/2" radius for all of the ASATs except the Deluxe or Will Ray Signature model.

Where do you see that?
It certainly doesn't say that here: http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... guitar.asp
Unless I am missing something.

This is exactly what the OP is referring to--Niether one of us can find mentioned anywhere on the site what the standard neck profile is.

[SouthpawGuy]

Any idea how long that has been the case ? The G&L site still lists a #2 neck with 7 1/2" radius for all of the ASATs except the Deluxe or Will Ray Signature model.

Where do you see that?
It certainly doesn't say that here: http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... guitar.asp
Unless I am missing something.

This is exactly what the OP is referring to--Niether one of us can find mentioned anywhere on the site what the standard neck profile is.

Go to the G&L site and look at the specs for each of the ASATs in the range.

http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

eg ASAT Classic

http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/US ... /index.asp

NECK RADIUS 7 1/2" (190.5mm)

[suave eddie]

This is what is so confusing about the site. The specs in the photos seem to only be referencing that particular guitar used in the photo. If you notice, it only mentions the neck radius, not the neck profile--there are three different neck profiles with a 7.5" radius.

When I placed my recent order, I was told that the #1 neck is default to all models and any other profile was an upcharge.

Maybe Craig or Tim can chime in.

[SouthpawGuy]

I don't find it confusing really

Legacy, S500, Comanche, Invader = 12" radius. #1 neck

ASATs = 7 1/2" radius #2 neck

ASAT Deluxes + Will Ray Signature = 12" radius

Other combos possible, by dealer or customer order.

That's how I read it.

Could be wrong though, it wouldn't be the first time, and you know what they say ... it certainly won't be the last !

[Craig]

This is what is so confusing about the site. The specs in the photos seem to only be referencing that particular guitar used in the photo. If you notice, it only mentions the neck radius, not the neck profile--there are three different neck profiles with a 7.5" radius.

When I placed my recent order, I was told that the #1 neck is default to all models and any other profile was an upcharge.

Maybe Craig or Tim can chime in.

The photo in each model's spec page is just an example of what that model looks like. The spec page reflects the standard specifications you
would get if you ordered that model and did not specify any custom options. Also see my next comments.

I don't find it confusing really

Legacy, S500, Comanche, Invader = 12" radius. #1 neck

ASATs = 7 1/2" radius #2 neck

ASAT Deluxes + Will Ray Signature = 12" radius

Other combos possible, by dealer or customer order.

That's how I read it.

Could be wrong though, it wouldn't be the first time, and you know what they say ... it certainly won't be the last !

You are correct.

The spec pages have been this way for many years now and do get changed as the specs change.
The neck specs have not changed since they started offering the various neck options and I think
that can be confusing since the actual neck number is not specified.

I know Dave has some updates to the webpages in the works and I will bring this to his attention,
along with a list of other items I have compiled.

Hope this helps.

[suave eddie]

So what you are saying is that the standard neck profile is different for different models?

When I ordered my ASAT Classic recently I am certain I was told that the #1 was standard for all models.

[Craig]

So what you are saying is that the standard neck profile is different for different models?

When I ordered my ASAT Classic recently I am certain I was told that the #1 was standard for all models.

The standard for all ASAT Classic models (with the possible exception of the Classic 'S' which I hope to get clarified soon) is the #2 neck, but with the variety of #2 neck options the specs could be
more specific now. There are three #2 (7 1/2" radius) neck options and five #1 (12" radius) neck options.

Hope this helps.

[suave eddie]

Thanks for clarifying that--
I was laboring under a false understanding while deciding on my special order.

I thought I wanted a #2 neck but was under the impression that it would cost more. As it turned out I discovered that I actually liked the #1 better and do not regret ordering it. I must have paid more for the #1 but with all the back and forth decision making I must not have realized it.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

Out of all of those G&L's in your collection and even including G&L guitars that you have played but do not own, how would you describe the gamut of neck play between them? The exceptions to ignore would be the ones that simply did not feel right to you in some way. Use a scale of say fast and easy 10 to slower and more deliberate 1 (or choose your own description to suit). The low end is not bad. It is just a style and the guitar"s range. IOW, if you could play very fast what is the percentage that have the neck to allow it? I am trying to focus on the guitar more than the player. Some people could play fast on anything of course.

Of the G&Ls that I own the Legacys, S500s and Invader have less variance from guitar to guitar than the ASATs. That is taking into consideration that the older G&Ls I have all have thinner neck profiles compared to the more recent guitars.

Presumably the ASATs vary more because several dealers order them with a 12" radius as opposed to the 7 1/2" "norm". Or has the #1 neck / 12" radius become the norm on ASATs ?

Personally the neck size / profile on a guitar is not a major concern when buying a guitar, lots of players are particular about width, thickness at the nut and 12th fret, fingerboard radius etc. I don't really mind, 90% of my guitars are bought unseen or unplayed by me. If I was ordering a new G&L from a dealer I would go for a 12" radius.

What is more of a deal breaker for me is the fret size, really low frets are not a favourite of mine. I find bends and vibrato easier with medium jumbo frets. For example my ASAT Special Deluxe has a 7 1/2" radius board with medium jumbo frets, but the neck feels and plays nothing like my '78 Strat with a 7 1/2" board and small frets. The neck profile is also different on the ASAT, it fills the hand more but it's still not a big neck.

My ASAT Bluesboy semi has a 12" radius board and a seriously big chunky neck, I don't know what # neck it is, it feels and plays different to the Special Deluxe. My ASAT Classic Custom also has a really chunky neck and I'm not even certain what radius is on that one. I've never measured the necks on any of them to be honest, or taken the necks off to find out.

It's not a deal breaker for me if the necks are different, each guitar has it's own character which is something I really like.

This helps me to get an idea of what to expect. It is likely that I would be in the same boat acquiring other guitars unplayed/unseen in person. I only have my strong imprint of playing my old Les Paul and recent experience with my new Legacy with a large gap of time in between. I have tried many different guitars just picking them up and playing them a little but the impression of them did not last. I only found one guitar that played better than my Les Paul in those days and it was just a Les Paul copy. My old Les Paul and new Legacy are worlds apart. I am getting used to the Legacy but I know I will never be able to play like I did with the Les Paul. It could have the most to do with the frets. I do like the Legacy frets for chords. Every string sings in perfect harmony as long as I hold them correctly. My Les Paul had a very fast action set up with low frets that came with chord and bend problems. Though the pressure required to get a strong note was less when playing single notes on a string it required dead-on and strong pressure, you had little room for error, to get a chord to sound in key and harmonious as if you were compensating for what the larger frets do by nature. I would like to find something that plays easily yet more like the Legacy than the LP. The Legacy is more difficult to play but is more accurate in many desirable ways to me. I wonder whether G&L vintage frets would be closer to the frets on a Legacy than a Les Paul, looking for a balance leaning on the Legacy side. Have you played a Les Paul? How does your new Larrivee feel compared to your Legacys?

[SouthpawGuy]

Out of all of those G&L's in your collection and even including G&L guitars that you have played but do not own, how would you describe the gamut of neck play between them? The exceptions to ignore would be the ones that simply did not feel right to you in some way. Use a scale of say fast and easy 10 to slower and more deliberate 1 (or choose your own description to suit). The low end is not bad. It is just a style and the guitar"s range. IOW, if you could play very fast what is the percentage that have the neck to allow it? I am trying to focus on the guitar more than the player. Some people could play fast on anything of course.

Of the G&Ls that I own the Legacys, S500s and Invader have less variance from guitar to guitar than the ASATs. That is taking into consideration that the older G&Ls I have all have thinner neck profiles compared to the more recent guitars.

Presumably the ASATs vary more because several dealers order them with a 12" radius as opposed to the 7 1/2" "norm". Or has the #1 neck / 12" radius become the norm on ASATs ?

Personally the neck size / profile on a guitar is not a major concern when buying a guitar, lots of players are particular about width, thickness at the nut and 12th fret, fingerboard radius etc. I don't really mind, 90% of my guitars are bought unseen or unplayed by me. If I was ordering a new G&L from a dealer I would go for a 12" radius.

What is more of a deal breaker for me is the fret size, really low frets are not a favourite of mine. I find bends and vibrato easier with medium jumbo frets. For example my ASAT Special Deluxe has a 7 1/2" radius board with medium jumbo frets, but the neck feels and plays nothing like my '78 Strat with a 7 1/2" board and small frets. The neck profile is also different on the ASAT, it fills the hand more but it's still not a big neck.

My ASAT Bluesboy semi has a 12" radius board and a seriously big chunky neck, I don't know what # neck it is, it feels and plays different to the Special Deluxe. My ASAT Classic Custom also has a really chunky neck and I'm not even certain what radius is on that one. I've never measured the necks on any of them to be honest, or taken the necks off to find out.

It's not a deal breaker for me if the necks are different, each guitar has it's own character which is something I really like.

This helps me to get an idea of what to expect. It is likely that I would be in the same boat acquiring other guitars unplayed/unseen in person. I only have my strong imprint of playing my old Les Paul and recent experience with my new Legacy with a large gap of time in between. I have tried many different guitars just picking them up and playing them a little but the impression of them did not last. I only found one guitar that played better than my Les Paul in those days and it was just a Les Paul copy. My old Les Paul and new Legacy are worlds apart. I am getting used to the Legacy but I know I will never be able to play like I did with the Les Paul. It could have the most to do with the frets. I do like the Legacy frets for chords. Every string sings in perfect harmony as long as I hold them correctly. My Les Paul had a very fast action set up with low frets that came with chord and bend problems. Though the pressure required to get a strong note was less when playing single notes on a string it required dead-on and strong pressure, you had little room for error, to get a chord to sound in key and harmonious as if you were compensating for what the larger frets do by nature. I would like to find something that plays easily yet more like the Legacy than the LP. The Legacy is more difficult to play but is more accurate in many desirable ways to me. I wonder whether G&L vintage frets would be closer to the frets on a Legacy than a Les Paul, looking for a balance leaning on the Legacy side. Have you played a Les Paul? How does your new Larrivee feel compared to your Legacys?

I think what you are feeling is the difference in string tension, the Legacy with a longer scale length, 25 1/2" as opposed to 24 3/4" of a Les Paul, will feel a little different, bends may be a bit harder. The Les Paul probably has 10s on it, the Legacy has the same gauge strings but a longer scale length so the physics will dictate the feel of the strings is a bit tighter. You could try a set of 9s on the Legacy it should reduce the pressure needed to fret a note. If you go to 9s you will need to have the intonation set for the lighter strings and also have the trem adjusted.

Fenders usually ship with 9s, if you've tried any in a shop you should be able to feel the difference in a side by side comparison.

The Larrivee RS4 is a long scale length, 25 1/2", same as a Legacy, ASAT, Strat or Tele, so it feels different to a Les Paul. Mine has 11s on it at the moment, been that way since I bought it so a direct comparison wouldn't be fair to either guitar. I do have a Les Paul, can't say I use it much, but the shorter scale length of 24 3/4" is also used on most Heritage guitars which ship with 10s. It really depends on what you are used to, I play a lot on acoustics strung with 12's, after four or five hours of acoustic any electric will feel easier to play. When I started on electric it was on a Tele with the same scale length as an ASAT or Legacy, going to the shorter "Gibson scale length" was no big deal for me, maybe because I was used to the longer length first, I don't know. I do know some long time Gibson players who just can't play longer scale guitars, or find it too much of a change when switching for a couple of songs. Maybe you're experiencing a little of that at the moment ?

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I think what you are feeling is the difference in string tension............a little of that at the moment ?

Very helpful and useful information.

Thank you.

[SouthpawGuy]

I think what you are feeling is the difference in string tension............a little of that at the moment ?

Very helpful and useful information.

Thank you.

Hey, no problem. Any time.

[suave eddie]

Michael--

I assume from your questions that you are unable to do any hands on comparisons in a local music store.

I understand your frustration in ordering a guitar sight-unseen.

The playability of a neck is such a personal preference--a 'fast' neck to one player may be unnaceptable to another.

As mentioned above, frets can make a big difference in feel along with the shape and size of the neck itself.

In all likelyhood, your Les Paul did not have the large frets that your Legacy probably does.

The jumbo fret popularity is rather recent. I am probably in the minority that does not like them. I started out playing the violin as a young kid and it would feel strange to me not to be able to feel the fretboard under my fingers. All of the guitars I have owned since I switched to guitar 40 years ago have had the smaller style frets. The G&L 'Vintage' frets are narrower and lower than the jumbos. This may be one factor that you liked about your Les Paul compared to the Legacy (as well as the lower string tension).

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

Michael--

I assume from your questions that you are unable to do any hands on comparisons in a local music store.

I understand your frustration in ordering a guitar sight-unseen.

The playability of a neck is such a personal preference--a 'fast' neck to one player may be unnaceptable to another.

As mentioned above, frets can make a big difference in feel along with the shape and size of the neck itself.

In all likelyhood, your Les Paul did not have the large frets that your Legacy probably does.

The jumbo fret popularity is rather recent. I am probably in the minority that does not like them. I started out playing the violin as a young kid and it would feel strange to me not to be able to feel the fretboard under my fingers. All of the guitars I have owned since I switched to guitar 40 years ago have had the smaller style frets. The G&L 'Vintage' frets are narrower and lower than the jumbos. This may be one factor that you liked about your Les Paul compared to the Legacy (as well as the lower string tension).

I am going to make a point of playing a guitar with vintage frets before buying another guitar unless I see something that I have to get or risk missing the opportunity.

I could, should and will spend some time comparing necks in the local store. I just want to learn what I can outside of that as well. I have looked over the available inventory here and would either end up buying something online or special ordering it. Also, I am not comfortable with my ability after not playing for years. It can be a hindrance when judging. The instruments are expensive and even though store personnel are probably fine with people handling them, my rusty condition makes me feel like I have no business touching the merchandise. I am not dangerous-to-equipment bad I just don't feel comfortable with how other people may react.