Problem with neck setup

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I have a question about the setup on my 2010 Legacy purchased mid May of 2011.

On the high E string when bending up from the 15th fret to some form of A note the bent string touches a fret which kills the note. This seems like a problem with the setup from the factory if I am correct in thinking this should all be adjusted during the PLEK process or at least at some point before the guitar is released for sale.

From the PLEK website:

"...playability is one of the most important characteristics that determines the quality of a musical instrument. The plek process guarantees the best possible string action for each instrument, matching the individual style of the musician. A guitar with optimized playability just sounds better: the strings do not strike the frets during playing and any intonation problems that may occur due to too low a string action are eliminated.

Regardless of where it was overlooked, this should not be happening and I want to know how this is corrected. It is probably something covered under warranty from where I purchased the guitar which leads to another concern. The guitar supposedly went through the PLEK process. Is this going to be compromised if some local tech starts making manual adjustments? Hopefully they have someone that knows what they are doing yet not all guitars are PLEKed to begin with so I am extra concerned (and annoyed) that it will be necessary to locate a luthier with PLEK knowledge.

[sirmyghin]

Means your high E saddle is too low, or there is a high fret. Most likely it is the saddle.

[Craig]

There is a process to follow on the G&L website. See the Support page.
Please note that the factory will be closed from August 1 through August 12 (their annual shutdown),
so if you need to contact the Service department, you will need to wait until Monday August 15th.
You do need to contact your dealer first anyway and they might be able to resolve this locally.

You might check the high E string distance at the 12th fret, it should measure 4/64" from the top of the fret
to the bottom of the string. This will help identify if the saddle for that string has shifted from the factory spec.

BTW, all USA G&L instruments are Plekked (PLEK Pro) and have since 2006.

Hope this helps.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

...all USA G&L instruments are Plekked (PLEK Pro) and have since 2006.

Thanks for all of the information. I meant that the PLEK process is not commonly performed on every instrument across all brands so it is not necessarily going to be something the average music store technician is trained to deal with. When I said the guitar "supposedly went through the PLEK process" I cannot be certain it was done properly even though each guitar is PLEKed. The shop put a new set of strings on the guitar and removed the protective sheet from the pickguard when I purchased the guitar. Maybe this saddle can be knocked out of adjustment while restringing the guitar or removing the protective sheet? That did involve loosening the pickguard screws to release the plastic they pinched. I have not played it that much since bringing it home and have not replaced those strings. I have been careful when handling the guitar.

I live in a relatively small coastal town. Considering that there is a very large metropolitan area over the hill with only a handful of G&L dealers sparsely scattered about I am surprised to have a G&L dealer here that carries USA models. I will have to see whether their technician is highly skilled or just someone who cleans and strings guitars. At this point I have not read through the information you linked to and I don't have a tool to make that measurement. I hope it just needs an adjustment and that it is not a fret or worse. I'll contact the local shop Monday.

Thanks again Craig and thanks Sirmyghin

[Craig]

and I don't have a tool to make that measurement.

All you need is a ruler with 1/64" or 1/8" markings, or in millimeters, it should measure 3.175mm.

Hope this helps.

[Craig]

The shop put a new set of strings on the guitar and removed the protective sheet from the pickguard when I purchased the guitar. Maybe this saddle can be knocked out of adjustment while restringing the guitar or removing the protective sheet? That did involve loosening the pickguard screws to release the plastic they pinched.

Did they change the string gauge from 10's to 9's or 11's or some other gauge? if so, the saddles might have needed to be reset
to set the intonation on each new string. They should have rechecked the E string heights at the 12th fret to make sure it was
still in spec.

Loosening and tightening the pickguard screws should no impact on this.

Hope this helps.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I am not sure what was on the guitar before they changed the strings. I had them put 9's on but they could have replaced whatever comes stock with from the factory before I handled it. I had not played a guitar in years and could not have sensed the gauge when I was trying it out. I don't think it was more than a set of 10's if not 9's. I just asked for what I used to use automatically.

I have rulers with the proper increments but there is a space on the ends before the ruler lines start. I could measure length just not depth. Plus for something like this I need glasses I have not yet received.

I mentioned the pickguard in case this could have been knocked out of place with a bump while doing some other process like loosening the screws and removing the protective film.

Thanks again

[sirmyghin]

I am not sure what was on the guitar before they changed the strings. I had them put 9's on but they could have replaced whatever comes stock with from the factory before I handled it. I had not played a guitar in years and could not have sensed the gauge when I was trying it out. I don't think it was more than a set of 10's if not 9's. I just asked for what I used to use automatically.

I have rulers with the proper increments but there is a space on the ends before the ruler lines start. I could measure length just not depth. Plus for something like this I need glasses I have not yet received.

I mentioned the pickguard in case this could have been knocked out of place with a bump while doing some other process like loosening the screws and removing the protective film.

Thanks again

10s are stock from the factory, if they put 9s on for you, you are going to need to adjust the intonation also. Most stores just put the strings on and tune it, well beyond insufficient. Same happened to me when I told them string it with 9s (as I didn't want to bother setting up my new guitar immediately, alas I had to regardless ). Fortunately I like doing setups, but I really just wanted to kick back with the new axe immediately.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

So I just returned from the local dealer after having their tech look at my Legacy. He ended up raising the string height of the high E. I do not know much about the PLEK process. I think it is safe to conclude this problem would be detected and corrected. The way the conversation infolded I am not sure if the tech considered the guitar had been PLEKed at the factory until I mentioned it. He seemed to present information that discounted that process as having any bearing on the problem. IOW, a PLEKed guitar can develop neck problems like this.

*Can weather effect the PLEK adjustments enough to cause, what he termed, "fretting out"? I am thinking the PLEK process brought the guitar up to a precise level of adjustment. It should have been given an inspection when sold. If a problem like this can occur within 2 1/2 months chances are it would have shown up within the year or less that the store had it on display. It is a 2010 and I bought it in the 5th month of 2011. Apparently in this case it was just a saddle that was out of adjustment but the conversation included other possibilities that could produce the fretting out.

The guitar was out on display exposed to identical weather conditions as anyone living in the same town......... well, not exactly, I could live right off a shoreline where there would be substantially more humidity from the ocean. It would be a stretch to think someone buying a $1000+ guitar would expose it to worse conditions than what the store had done. Granted I could be a gigging musician playing in dive bars bumping elbows with drunken patrons and so on. It can be humid anywhere let alone on the coast with the heat of several people with beer breath locked in a small room yet that is not constant. I guess this becomes more or less of a factor depending on what causes the problem in the first place. If weather can effect the guitar like this it might happen if you never played the guitar after taking possession of it, hence my question.*

He made the adjustment on the house but this adjustment was not considered under warranty according to him. It was beyond 30 days. After that, unknowns are considered such as storage, weather, the possibility that I attempted adjustments, etc. IMO, unless it is an obvious owner blunder and requires a significant effort to correct there is no reason to charge for something like this so soon. He didn't charge me but he could have and might have. I looked around and this shop carries a lot of expensive finely crafted instruments. My guitar sold for 1/3 their average prices, roughly estimating. I would think of it as even less tasteful charging anyone for such an adjustment.

They all seem like nice people and I don't mean to cast suspicion.

[sirmyghin]

Your neck will move in weather, it is possible the action was set higher than it currently was and the only detectable change was on that particular string. If you like the rest, but want to get rid of the now 'problem' feature, you correct it as he did. The rounder a radius, the higher the action required to prevent fretting out may also come into the picture. If it was a fret issue, it would likely be a bit more predominant/would have been noticed the entire time.

Necks move, with changes in moisture mostly, we are afterall working with wood here. Saddle screws can move a bit too. Learning to do your own setups is a valuable thing for anyone who really likes to play as no one can do a setup better than you can do it youself. The process is dead simple, just takes time and patience to get it 'perfect'. The time obviously drops with experience. It is something green guitarists overlook, there is no magic to it however. I have been setting up instruments just as long as I have been playing them.

Such adjustments would very rarely be considered waranty, nothing is broken, once again this is part of owning a guitar. Complaining he could charge you for giving you time and service is silly. I certainly don't work for free.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

...Complaining he could charge you for giving you time and service is silly. I certainly don't work for free.

It is defining the realm of doing business and cultivating future business.


EDIT: Something had been at the back of my mind that I could not pin down. I know what it is now. I believe this falls under a break-in period. It is not a part failure. It is not wear from prolonged use. It is something that seems to have come out of adjustment in a short period of time or it never was correct to begin with and slipped through. It is what can happen when a new owner/player is getting to know the product/instrument and the adjustments that are required as the instrument grows accustomed to being used/played.

I purchased a high-end road bike, a bicycle that people use in the Tour de France though not nearly that high-end. For the first year I was able to drop by the shop for adjustments as I broke it in. This is not having special modifications done or even fixing a flat tire. You use something new and things react to being used for the first time and need readjusting or tightening up or even need to be fitted to the user (seat height, angle of handle bars, braking tension, etc.)

I expected this to come with a nice guitar purchase and was surprised that it didn't (at this shop at least).

I am not complaining. I have nothing to complain about, though I was annoyed at the potential degree of problem to resolve in the beginning, I was not charged anything.

This is a forum for discussion so I mentioned how I felt about it in the context of everything that happened from beginning to end.

I am a little irked at the idea that this was perceived as complaining.

All of this said, I am grateful for the experience and information shared.

M