To me mahogany has the warm lows but it seems to
have a very high end artifact - in other words a scooped
upper mids.
The ash seems to be brighter, punchy and balanced over
its range which is tapered off on the lows.
Does this sound right to more experienced ears than mine?
The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I'm trying
to zero in on the ASAT I want to get. I think I'm getting close
to deciding on an ASAT Deluxe but no sure which configuration
yet (e.g. mahogany/ash, solid/semi-hollow, rosewood/maple).
This one below is beyond my price range but what a beautiful ASAT
Deluxe with DF trem to boot!
http://cgi.ebay.com/G-L-USA-ASAT-DELUXE ... 35b3db295a
ASAT Deluxe - tonal differences between mahogany and ash
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jwebsmall
- Posts: 405
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:13 am
- Location: Reston, Virginia
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sirmyghin
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:30 pm
- Location: Ontario,Canada
Re: ASAT Deluxe - tonal differences between mahogany and ash
In my experience there are 2 types of wood, resonant wood and dead wood. Species, even within themselves are far too variant to pinpoint 'sonic properties' pair that with all the alteration of sound you get from pickups and amp (the 2 most important factors, after you playing it) and you will never be able to distinguish the species of wood by hearing a guitar. Your descriptor of mahogany sounds like the typical 'Les Paul' descriptor for it. But what is a les paul, yes it is made of mahogany, but it is a short scale, set necked, light bridge with sharp string break angles. The short scale is important as the wave form of the vibrating string is then shorter, which plays into how the pickups are disturbed, and contribtures to the sound (effectively the pickups see more difference than on a longer scale, as the pickup coil width is unchanged). A lot of the snap and brightness of ash, is likely a factor of ash being used mostly on 'long scale' guitars. Then you have capacitance of the electronics overall, ever played 5 or 6 of the same guitar, and one is noticeably hotter, more expressive, better, despite identical wood, hardware etc? This is likely the capacitance of the system being at its resonant level through the particular cable and such you are running. This is caused by the tolerances on the electronics we use.
What I am getting at here is, be very careful where you are attributing your tonal properties. Most players make it too simple, and try to place it all on wood, this is nowhere near accurate. Wood may give slight nuance, but it will never define the sound. If your wood is resonant (which most quality builds contain) you won't get much difference. It will effect the feel in your hands, for unfinished the texture, and overall how the wood is responding to some extent. Resonant wood will vibrate on you more, depending which tones are triggering resonance it may meld well with the guitar and 'have it'.
My ash ASAT has inhuman amounts of bass to it, I have it fitted with an aluminum pickguard, and is quite pleasant sounding regardless of which pickup I use. There are many ways to tune these things, in my case the aluminum pickguard seems to enhance the lows, as they were not always there. This would suggest lowing the pickup resonance peak (which is very important to what you hear from a pickup, it is what serious of tones/overtones it will accentuate).
At the end of the day, there is so much you can do, get the wood that looks best to you. The rest is all infinitely mutable.
What I am getting at here is, be very careful where you are attributing your tonal properties. Most players make it too simple, and try to place it all on wood, this is nowhere near accurate. Wood may give slight nuance, but it will never define the sound. If your wood is resonant (which most quality builds contain) you won't get much difference. It will effect the feel in your hands, for unfinished the texture, and overall how the wood is responding to some extent. Resonant wood will vibrate on you more, depending which tones are triggering resonance it may meld well with the guitar and 'have it'.
My ash ASAT has inhuman amounts of bass to it, I have it fitted with an aluminum pickguard, and is quite pleasant sounding regardless of which pickup I use. There are many ways to tune these things, in my case the aluminum pickguard seems to enhance the lows, as they were not always there. This would suggest lowing the pickup resonance peak (which is very important to what you hear from a pickup, it is what serious of tones/overtones it will accentuate).
At the end of the day, there is so much you can do, get the wood that looks best to you. The rest is all infinitely mutable.
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Boogie Bill
- Posts: 793
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:16 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Re: ASAT Deluxe - tonal differences between mahogany and ash
Well, I think mine is a lot prettier than the Lemon Drop.
Yep, got a DF Vibrato, too! And a 12" radius rosewood fingerboard with a birdseye neck,....
And a mahogany back!
One more shot....
The AD model is a great guitar, though I don't use mine that much; and it's hard to put my finger on exactly WHY I don't use the AD more often. Partly it's because I use a Legacy-bodied G&L for my Number One guitar, and much prefer this body shape and control ergonomics over the ASAT model. Another factor: the neck pickup (Duncan '59) is not in the same position as the LP or the 335's neck pickup; good for some folks as the AD has a little clearer tone in that position, while others prefer the thicker tone of having the pickup under the 24th fret harmonic.
For 2HB tones I prefer my Gison Les Pauls; my ES-335 or my Ibanez Artstar AS-120; or my Ibanez GR-520 Ghostriders. One thing I can tell you though--even with the maple-over-mahogany body, don't expect the AD to sound like a Les Paul. With the longer scale and the bolt neck and vibrato, mine actually has an airy tone more reminiscent of my 335.
It is kinda neat for me having a 2HB guitar with a vibrato, so that's the niche this guitar fills for me. The TB-4 in bridge has a nice thick tone that really rocks; and the coil-taps make it easy to go from clean single-coil rhythm tones to in-your-face solo tones.
Mine has the locking tuners and a graphite nut--definitely get those options if you order an AD with either a DF Vibrato or a Bigsby. (Psst! The DF is SO much better than a Bigsby!!!!!)
As for woods, I don't think you can go wrong with the maple/mahogany body. If weight is an issue, go for the semi-hollow--my AD is 9.8 lbs., even with that big chunk of wood carved out of the body for the vibrato. (BTW that's more than any of the Gibson Les Pauls I own.) If you play at high volume or with tons of gain and want the semi-hollow, I'd suspect that the solid top (no f-hole) version would minimize the potential for feedback.
The AD is a gorgeous guitar, no doubt about it. Mine definitely ranks as not only one of the prettiest, but also among the best made of the 48 guitars I own. I sometimes think I should sell it, since I don't use it much; but then I pull it out and the love-affair starts all over again.
Oh, but I do know where there is one for sale at a pretty good price--check the Seattle Craigslist!
Good luck!
Bill
Yep, got a DF Vibrato, too! And a 12" radius rosewood fingerboard with a birdseye neck,....
And a mahogany back!
One more shot....
The AD model is a great guitar, though I don't use mine that much; and it's hard to put my finger on exactly WHY I don't use the AD more often. Partly it's because I use a Legacy-bodied G&L for my Number One guitar, and much prefer this body shape and control ergonomics over the ASAT model. Another factor: the neck pickup (Duncan '59) is not in the same position as the LP or the 335's neck pickup; good for some folks as the AD has a little clearer tone in that position, while others prefer the thicker tone of having the pickup under the 24th fret harmonic.
For 2HB tones I prefer my Gison Les Pauls; my ES-335 or my Ibanez Artstar AS-120; or my Ibanez GR-520 Ghostriders. One thing I can tell you though--even with the maple-over-mahogany body, don't expect the AD to sound like a Les Paul. With the longer scale and the bolt neck and vibrato, mine actually has an airy tone more reminiscent of my 335.
It is kinda neat for me having a 2HB guitar with a vibrato, so that's the niche this guitar fills for me. The TB-4 in bridge has a nice thick tone that really rocks; and the coil-taps make it easy to go from clean single-coil rhythm tones to in-your-face solo tones.
Mine has the locking tuners and a graphite nut--definitely get those options if you order an AD with either a DF Vibrato or a Bigsby. (Psst! The DF is SO much better than a Bigsby!!!!!)
As for woods, I don't think you can go wrong with the maple/mahogany body. If weight is an issue, go for the semi-hollow--my AD is 9.8 lbs., even with that big chunk of wood carved out of the body for the vibrato. (BTW that's more than any of the Gibson Les Pauls I own.) If you play at high volume or with tons of gain and want the semi-hollow, I'd suspect that the solid top (no f-hole) version would minimize the potential for feedback.
The AD is a gorgeous guitar, no doubt about it. Mine definitely ranks as not only one of the prettiest, but also among the best made of the 48 guitars I own. I sometimes think I should sell it, since I don't use it much; but then I pull it out and the love-affair starts all over again.
Oh, but I do know where there is one for sale at a pretty good price--check the Seattle Craigslist!
Good luck!
Bill
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jwebsmall
- Posts: 405
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:13 am
- Location: Reston, Virginia
Re: ASAT Deluxe - tonal differences between mahogany and ash
Thanks for all the information on the AD.
I'm having a tough time deciding what I want to get.
It seems to be changing every day. I'm going to wait
until my desire settles on one before committing. Today
I'm hot on the ASAT classic again. Yesterday it was the ASAT
Special and before that the ASAT Deluxe (I've heard some
AD's with a lot of twang). I guess I can't go wrong with
any ASAT but I only want to buy one and not multiply them.
I even thought about buying used ASAT tributes one by one,
play them for a while before flipping them on ebay and then sell
off the last one and wait to see which one I miss the most and
can't live without. Once miss right surfaces I'll go buy her in
the USA model ASAT and call it quits. Has anybody gone that route?
I have a rule - a quota actually - I only allow myself to own
two electric guitars at one time. This way you finally arrive
at your destiny. Right now my only electric is a USA G&L legacy
and that's not going anywhere. It took a long time to arrive
at this guitar and it's a keeper for life. So I have one slot left
to fill. Without the quota I'd eat myself to death.
I'm having a tough time deciding what I want to get.
It seems to be changing every day. I'm going to wait
until my desire settles on one before committing. Today
I'm hot on the ASAT classic again. Yesterday it was the ASAT
Special and before that the ASAT Deluxe (I've heard some
AD's with a lot of twang). I guess I can't go wrong with
any ASAT but I only want to buy one and not multiply them.
I even thought about buying used ASAT tributes one by one,
play them for a while before flipping them on ebay and then sell
off the last one and wait to see which one I miss the most and
can't live without. Once miss right surfaces I'll go buy her in
the USA model ASAT and call it quits. Has anybody gone that route?
I have a rule - a quota actually - I only allow myself to own
two electric guitars at one time. This way you finally arrive
at your destiny. Right now my only electric is a USA G&L legacy
and that's not going anywhere. It took a long time to arrive
at this guitar and it's a keeper for life. So I have one slot left
to fill. Without the quota I'd eat myself to death.
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sirmyghin
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:30 pm
- Location: Ontario,Canada
Re: ASAT Deluxe - tonal differences between mahogany and ash
I only own 2, but my rule is if it provides a unique sonic oppurtunity I do not have I can acquire it. I stress unique heavily. If you are torn between buckers and single,s I recommend the special, it really is a swiss army knife but sounds amazing. It can do high gain, and country spank in my experience silently at that.