G&L USA Legacy vs USA Legacy Rustic

[mrsmitty]

I sat down with both of these the other day and the Rustic smoked the standard Legacy. The standard Legacy was $1000, the Rustic was $2000. Other than the finish and style, I could not tell why they sounded so different. Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks. -Mike

[yowhatsshakin]

Hi Mike,

Well, $2k always sound better than $1K, doesn't it?

All kidding aside, most likely it is a bit of a fluke and could easily been the other way around. The build quality of any G&L is extraordinary. So unlike for instance comparing a production Fender with a Custom Shop instrument, all G&L should be pretty similar construction wise. The only difference is that the neck of the Rustic is quarter-sawn. Beyond that, I am not aware that, besides the artificial aging of body and hardware, there is any other special attention going into a Rustic model. Sometimes the right piece of wood is running into the right set of pups and magic is created,

More data is needed to verify that Rustic are consistently smoking ordinary production models. Hope others can chime in too or correct my assessment.

- Jos

P.S. Do you know whether there was a difference in body wood between the 2 guitars? The body wood for the Rustic is easy to deduce from the finish: swamp ash for the Blonde, alder for the Lake Placid Blue.

[blargfromouterspace]

I agree with Jos.

I'll add that the Rustic may have had a better setup - if they were in the same shop then I'd guess that the more expensive guitar would have received more attention from the on site tech, hence sounded better. Mind you, seeing as they come off of a Plek machine his job would be limited to adjusting pickup heights...

There hasn't been much posted at all about the Rustic line here, let us know if you decide to buy it.

[sirmyghin]

Rustics also have nitro not poly finish no? Sticky, nasty, fragile nitro.

[mrsmitty]

Rustics are nitro, both guitars were Alder. The standard Legacy was the solid color (blue) which indicates alder. The Rustic was the placid blue which also indicates alder (see note below from site). My guess is the pickups...I had to turn the volume down on the Rustic because it was ripping hot!

From G&L website (I played the exact ones shown on the site...)
Legacy: Alder on Standard and all solid finishes, Swamp Ash on all Premier finishes
Rustic: Swamp Ash Blonde, Alder on Lake Placid Blue

[zapcosongs]

Never tried a Rustic, but if it moved you I might start poking around in search of a used one. The pickups on the two models you tried are the same, so perhaps there was a difference in adjustment relative to the strings? Hmmm. As George Clinton once proclaimed: "Free your mind and your a** will follow." Good luck, and welcome. - ed

[mrsmitty]

Let's hope so, I don't want any funny Fender business entering the G&L realm...Made in Mexico, Made in Korea, Made in Your Mom's House with American parts....!

[zapcosongs]

Well, the Tributes are actually of remarkable quality and a great value.... - ed

[mrsmitty]

Thanks for the reply Tim. I showed this same issue to a local store and left them completely baffled. He said he was going to talk to the rep so hopefully he'll have something to say. The price difference is just too great on the guitar for some cosmetic tweaks.... Unfortunately, this blows the whole look for the best deal online idea. It seems you have to have it in your hand to really know what you're getting. Thanks again, I'll post a reply when I hear from the rep.

[Lazer]

It seems you have to have it in your hand to really know what you're getting.

Yep, this is the way with ALL guitars all makes all models.
Thats why I never ever buy anything unseen over the net
except if I know and trust the seller.

As much as I hate the concept of "rustics and road worn" I can tell You it takes lot more
than a few cosmetic tweaks. Compared to the work involved the price is right.
I have stripped a few gutars over the years and my experience is that the finnish
makes a difference, but it is very small.

Cheers
L.zr

[pico peachy]

To echo what others had said-After playing a Rustic at my local dealer, I left the shop feeling that it was a really nice Legacy that just had a softer feel on the body because of the nitro finish. (And the aged hardware which I am indifferent to) It didn't play any better than most of the Legacies that I have owned or played (~a dozen or so). But I really liked the feel of nitro finish. In fact, I tried to get it when I ordered my recently obtained Asat Classic custom. My dealer made a phone call and the short answer was that it wasn't going to happen because G&L outsources the nitro paint work on the bodies.

[willross]

I'd consider one if it came non-distressed. I'll make my own damage thank you very much...


Cheers,

Will

[sickbutnottired]

I'd consider one if it came non-distressed. I'll make my own damage thank you very much...


Cheers,

Will

Right on. The nicer a guitar I buy, the sooner I turn around and whack it on the headstock of the base players gibson ripper.

Also, I am with Jos. Guitars are just different. It's the magic of the whole mess, pickups, wood, setup. That's part of the fun!

[yowhatsshakin]

I'd consider one if it came non-distressed. I'll make my own damage thank you very much...

+1

[mrsmitty]

My local dealer spoke with the rep and there is still some comparisons that need to be made. The rep indicated that:

1. The nitro finish is highly specialized attributing to the increased cost.
2. The tremelo block is larger on the relic (more mass) contributing to a different tone.
3. The strings on the standard Legacy were so shot that they need to be replaced before the comparison can be made (I should've recognized this ).

So, the dealer is restringing them for me and I'll go to town on them tomorrow to hopefully solve this mystery. Stay tuned...

[zapcosongs]

Interesting. The this really is the first I've heard of a difference in trem block. Hmmmm. Tim? Craig? - ed

[yowhatsshakin]

Are they using the Stainless Steel DFV on the Rustic? Just wondering.

I only have one (1) nitro finished guitar in my collection: the PRS Sunburst 245 which was the first 'production' model with the marvelous 57/08 buckers. I love the sound, but the stickiness of the nitro does take getting used to. But the sound is heavenly. And again, I would love a nitro finished Butterscotch ASAT Classic but wouldn't know why you would distress it. Fully supporting Will there!

Anyway, love your updates on this worthwhile experiment.

- Jos

[blargfromouterspace]

Mrs. Mitty: based on what the rep has said then the thing causing the better tone in the Rustic is likely to be that trem block (and the strings of course). You can pick them up for $30 from GFS. A friend of mine just installed one in his strat and it sounds noticeably better. Bear that in mind when you're trying them out.

[Craig]

My local dealer spoke with the rep and there is still some comparisons that need to be made. The rep indicated that:

1. The nitro finish is highly specialized attributing to the increased cost.
2. The tremelo block is larger on the relic (more mass) contributing to a different tone.
3. The strings on the standard Legacy were so shot that they need to be replaced before the comparison can be made (I should've recognized this ).

So, the dealer is restringing them for me and I'll go to town on them tomorrow to hopefully solve this mystery. Stay tuned...

Interesting. The this really is the first I've heard of a difference in trem block. Hmmmm. Tim? Craig? - ed

I contacted Steve Grom (Director of Manufacturing) about the Legacy Rustic vs standard Legacy and whether the trem block is the same as used on the 30th Anniversary Legacy. Here is he reply:

The increased cost of any G&L Rustic model is related to both the nitrocellulose finish and the additional factory labor required to create the "rustic" look of the neck, body, metal and plastic parts. The time required to age all the components correctly is significant and we have a group of 3 people who work on different elements of each instrument.

Regarding the tremolo, all standard Legacy models (non-Rustic) and a Rustic version use exactly the same bridge. The block is the same on both.

The only upgrade available for the G&L Dual Fulcrum Bridge is the new DFS version (Dual Fulcrum Steel) that incorporates stainless steel bridge saddles and a "cold rolled" steel trem block. This is the bridge used on the 30th Anniversary version of the Legacy and F-100

I hope this information is helpful

Best regards

Steve Grom

Hope this helps.

[mrsmitty]

Last post...I went down to the shop today for another test. The Rustic was still hotter than the standard with the brand new strings (although noticeable difference). So, it looks like I just got a hold of a really good Rustic. I think I'll continue to play the standards until I find the one that hits me. The nitro finish feels like butter if you can swing the extra money. Thanks for all the advice.

[sirmyghin]

Last post...I went down to the shop today for another test. The Rustic was still hotter than the standard with the brand new strings (although noticeable difference). So, it looks like I just got a hold of a really good Rustic. I think I'll continue to play the standards until I find the one that hits me. The nitro finish feels like butter if you can swing the extra money. Thanks for all the advice.

Did you look at the pickup height setup on these when evaluating whether one was 'hotter'?

[mrsmitty]

Good point and yes I did. So did the other 5 people around me...shaking their heads.

[sirmyghin]

Good point and yes I did. So did the other 5 people around me...shaking their heads.

Very odd. Maybe something in the wiring was a little up. Who knows. Maybe a slight oddity in the winding was causing either one to be exceptionally damped, or the other to effectively resonante electronically.

[Boogie Bill]

I haven't notieced a lot of difference in the tone of my nine Legacys. Sure, the rosewood boards sound slightly warmer; the alder bodied guitars sound a little softer, slower and woodier than the ash. The difference between the CLF-100s and the older Duncan SSL-2s is insignificant, at least to my ear. No real major difforences, as far as I'm concerned.

But I do think the nitro vs. poly is a valid issue to many players, even if it's only marketing! LOL!

Heads up for you guys that find nitro sticky--use a couple of treatments of the Virtuoso Cleaner, followed by the Virtuoso Polish. I used this technique on several of my Les Pauls and it ended the sticky neck syndrome. I apply the Cleaner, leave it on for 15-20 minutes and buff it off. Repeat, and then two coats of the Polish. I did this on my two 1960 VOS Historic Plaintops and it left a beautiful shine. My full Gloss '58 Historic had a really sticky neck when I got it, but has not had any stickiness--even in 90F weather at an outdoor festival last summer. Great stuff, and STRONGLY recommended.

Bill

[offplanetfilms]

I have two legacy's : a 2005 ash body with maple neck, and a 2006 alder body with rosewood neck. Very different animals those two... the alder is more resonant, louder & darker toned (hotter pickups it seems), and the ash is snappy, firmer & brighter. (alder one weight about 8 pounds & the ash is 9.2)
I don't know if there's a difference with the pickups between 2005 & 2006... I notice the Knowlegebase mentions that the pickups were hand wound till 2005, then I assume machine would from 2006 onwards. Regardless, the 2006 pickups definitely seem have more drive & sends my tube amp into distortion easier. The 2005 has a ton more clean headroom on the same amp. (Hence I tend to play sparkly cleans on the 2005 & nasty-dirty on the 2006!)

[leprof31]

My Rustic 2009 had always be a bit ordinary, boring, not special as she should. I decided to bring her to my luthier in Quebec (St-Jean-sur-Richelieu)... He is a Fender master-lutihier. He found some issues with my Rustic, issues from the factory... First, a lot of metal pieces are to much rusted, and mechanical parts are almost stuck by the rust. They just did not neutralized the effect of the acid on the moving gear after aging that parts at the factory. Then a cluster of fresh nitrocellulose from the wet neck (when the guitar was assembly at the factory) get under the neck and dry there gluing the neck and the body together... They put the neck and the body too soon together. This problem get the neck just a little bit offset and make the tremolo very hard to use... and the ajustement of the touch a bit too high... He has been obliged to cut the nitro and had to remove all the stickers with date and serial number because they where swollen... Now, the guitar is amazing... but why the factory did not care about a Rustic top of the line.???? They almost made a very great guitar...a little piece of sh***. This is ashame! I think Leo would have been really upset about that.

[yowhatsshakin]

My Rustic 2009 had always be a bit ordinary, boring, not special as she should. I decided to bring her to my luthier in Quebec (St-Jean-sur-Richelieu)... He is a Fender master-lutihier. He found some issues with my Rustic, issues from the factory... First, a lot of metal pieces are to much rusted, and mechanical parts are almost stuck by the rust. They just did not neutralized the effect of the acid on the moving gear after aging that parts at the factory. Then a cluster of fresh nitrocellulose from the wet neck (when the guitar was assembly at the factory) get under the neck and dry there gluing the neck and the body together... They put the neck and the body too soon together. This problem get the neck just a little bit offset and make the tremolo very hard to use... and the ajustement of the touch a bit too high... He has been obliged to cut the nitro and had to remove all the stickers with date and serial number because they where swollen... Now, the guitar is amazing... but why the factory did not care about a Rustic top of the line.???? They almost made a very great guitar...a little piece of sh***. This is ashame! I think Leo would have been really upset about that.

Good info!

- Jos

[Craig]

My Rustic 2009 had always be a bit ordinary, boring, not special as she should. I decided to bring her to my luthier in Quebec (St-Jean-sur-Richelieu)... He is a Fender master-lutihier. He found some issues with my Rustic, issues from the factory... First, a lot of metal pieces are to much rusted, and mechanical parts are almost stuck by the rust. They just did not neutralized the effect of the acid on the moving gear after aging that parts at the factory. Then a cluster of fresh nitrocellulose from the wet neck (when the guitar was assembly at the factory) get under the neck and dry there gluing the neck and the body together... They put the neck and the body too soon together. This problem get the neck just a little bit offset and make the tremolo very hard to use... and the ajustement of the touch a bit too high... He has been obliged to cut the nitro and had to remove all the stickers with date and serial number because they where swollen... Now, the guitar is amazing... but why the factory did not care about a Rustic top of the line.???? They almost made a very great guitar...a little piece of sh***. This is ashame! I think Leo would have been really upset about that.

If you bought it new from a G&L dealer or distributor, you could have had this handled by the G&L under warranty.
FYI: 2009 was the first year of the Rustic models and was discontinued in June 2015. G&L has since been doing special build runs of Nitro finished instruments and some of them have been relic'd

[Crusher]

A lot of time, I've played guitars in store, where magic wasn't there, for the exact same guitars (even a great guitar a day can become a dog 3 months later). You have to take consideration of two (or four) things :

1) the time the guitar's been on the rack
2) the setup
3) the player, how he plays
4) how the player feel that day (optional )

1 and 2 are interdependant. When a guitar is in a shop, a lot of time the place is unproper for them... temperature change, setup moves... I've played dogs, a lot of them, because the setup was really poor. Had friends in music shops in the past (they all moved elsewhere with time and I've stopped GAS-ing a lot so...) and they often let me do some setups along with them. From a dog to a killer guitar (or a cool guitar, but they rarely stay dog). Bow/release, intonation, pickup height, tuning (yeah, some people listen with their eyes only), it's all about the setup. It influences the equation a lot. They are not always setted to our liking - I love high output stuff, pickups close to the strings, but some people absolutely hate that. I play rough, some are soft... Also, I am not a consistent player, or it's more about the way I feel about my playing - one day, I am really really bad, and some days, I am less bad. You know!

Life slice : my main bass, and my best one, was bought in a store, fretboard dried up as the desert. The rosewood was close to white (really, it wasn't really brown anymore, it was more of a washed brown, close to a 10 milk 30 sugar cofee, first time I saw that in my life), action was so high it was nearly unplayable, dead strings - all in all, nothing was done correctly. It was a great reasonant bass though, really awesome when unplugged, but not so crazy plugged in - sounded, well, like crap. I knew something was to happen though, because it was so reasonant and really comfortable to play (take out the action factor). Bough it because it was a looker and because of it's feel and the price was low for a limited edition (was due to the poor setup making the thing less than desirable). Was hesitant but still, there was something telling me to walk out the store with it... At home, I did a great setup, hydrated the fretboard, did it so it could be played properly. The "well-d'uh-ok" bass became "aweeeeee-heheheeeeee!!!" bass. The same place had a 7k bass, with a poor setup. Had I not know the brand, I would have thought it was a low end bass... clerk said : "well, we cannot keep our stuff set-up, it would cost too much, and it's not revelant)... yeah yeah. SO!

Yes, there are gems though (magic does happens), even amongst low end stuff - I've been surprised in the past! But price is not always a factor, and setup can change a lot, making the exact same guitar sound different... All in all, not a guitar sound the same, but a dog can become a gem, so you have to be careful when judging an instrument

My 2 cent, sorry for the long post!

[jageya]

by rustic do you mean distressed at the factory??? I have a new one from years ago still in the case..distressed from factory and it DOES play better then any usa i have...its awesome for sure. But sadly i have too many guitars so may be selling it...if i can get 2k i would for sure. lol

[yowhatsshakin]

by rustic do you mean distressed at the factory??? I have a new one from years ago still in the case..distressed from factory and it DOES play better then any usa i have...its awesome for sure. But sadly i have too many guitars so may be selling it...if i can get 2k i would for sure. lol

Yes. If you download the 2009 Catalog, you will find several instruments available in a Rustic version where the hardware has been oxidized and a nitro finish has been applied. The distressing of the finish is not that extreme but still giving these instruments worn-in appearance. I reckon you have one of them then.

- Jos