Sunburst description on early G&L Basses?

[derick]

Hi, I have a few guitars that I have entered in the Registry.

I have noticed that a few early 1980s L-1000 basses that I have selected "Tobacco Sunburst" as the color get edited by someone to become listed as "Three tone sunburst (aka Sunburst)."
I believe that this change is in error.

As evidence, here is a photo of a December '81 3 tone sunburst next to what I consider to be a tobacco sunburst, built May of 1983.



I do understand that the price lists from these years only list one sunburst, called "Sunburst." but I think that the difference between these two treatments is great enough that they should be described separately.

[Craig]

Hi, I have a few guitars that I have entered in the Registry.

I have noticed that a few early 1980s L-1000 basses that I have selected "Tobacco Sunburst" as the color get edited by someone to become listed as "Three tone sunburst (aka Sunburst)."
I believe that this change is in error.

As evidence, here is a photo of a December '81 3 tone sunburst next to what I consider to be a tobacco sunburst, built May of 1983.



I do understand that the price lists from these years only list one sunburst, called "Sunburst." but I think that the difference between these two treatments is great enough that they should be described separately.

That would be me as the Registry Admin.

I see both of your basses as having a 3-tone Sunburst (aka Sunburst) finish and likely each one done by a different painter.
The one on the left has a wider band of Red and the other one has a narrower band of Red.

Tobacco Sunburst was first listed in the 1992-93 G&L Catalog, see Page 1.

Perhaps GbL member and former early G&L painter, Fred Finisher, will see this and comment.

[derick]

I see both of your basses as having a 3-tone Sunburst (aka Sunburst) finish and likely each one done by a different painter.
The one on the left has a wider band of Red and the other one has a narrower band of Red.

HI Craig, thanks for weighing in.

Here is my thought process, and a photo of three other sunburst basses...



The bass on the left is a 2008, and it was ordered as tobacco sunburst which was one of maybe 5 color options on this first run of "reissue" L-1000s. I realize that photos can play tricks but to my eyes and in person, it appears to have more of a third band of color than the 1982 bass next to it, and the 1982 fretless on the far right.

It's not a hugely important detail, they are what they are, but I would like to hear if Fred had any insights about the early sunbursts.

[Its_Him_Again]

The ones you are calling "tobacco sunburst" are just the regular early G&L "sunburst" that was used most of the time G&L sprayed bursts back then. They are not "3TSB," and they are not "tobacco sunburst." You are correct that they should not be called 3TSB, but they also should not be called tobacco sunburst. They are just "sunburst."

I have three original early '80s G&L bursts, with little to no UV effect on their finishes. One is an '82 L-1000, which is "mega clean," and the other is an '84 SB-2, which is merely "incredibly clean." I also have an '84 SC-3 with the same burst as the SB-2, which is "pretty darned clean."

All these bursts appear to be two tone to me (as did most G&L bursts back then). The difference is that the SB-2 and SC-3 are "yellow" (over maple) in the middle, and the L-1000 is "brown" (natural over mahogany) in the middle.

I think of the standard early G&L burst as 2TSB. But occasionally they sprayed 3TSB as well...and I'm not sure how that was differentiated in the catalog (or if it was differentiated at all – maybe they just decided to spray it as a 3-tone sometimes, or maybe a dealer asked for it sometimes).

These "sunburst" finishes were almost always incredibly well applied, such that even if they are 2TSB, the transitional mist is so fine and seamlessly gradated, they can create the optical illusion of a very slight third color in there. I believe that all of your bursts that you are saying "have less red" are actually standard sunbursts that simply have a beautifully applied gradation, creating the optical illusion of a third color. And if they do indeed have a third color in there, it's not red. It's more like brown. All of my early G&L bursts are this way. They are definitely not 3TSB...but they can appear to have a very slight third color in there, because they are so well gradated.

In theory, "tobacco" sunburst replicates a 3TSB on which the red has faded out to anywhere from orange to brown. There should be nothing in a tobacco burst that your average reasonable person would read as "red." And this simulation of faded red was not attempted until later anyhow.

And, it should be noted that bursts are notoriously difficult to render accurately in photographs. I have an extensive training and professional experience in photography, shooting objects for accurate reproduction day in and day out, and I find bursts challenging to downright impossible to render accurately.

As for the two bursts you posted, one is the standard "sunburst" (right), and the other is the more rare 3TSB. The more "drab" one (right) has no red in it, and doesn't look like it ever did. It also doesn't have the yellow in the middle, which most 3TSBs did. The yellow center color, when it is there, does not fade out over time; if anything, it gets more yellow. FWIW, my '82 L-1000 is a ringer for your bass on the right (but in almost untouched condition). It's not 3TSB. The one on the left is, but the one on the right is a standard early G&L burst (which I call 2TSB).

There was no "tobacco sunburst" back then. You either got 2TSB (almost always) or 3TSB (rare)...and the two are very easy to tell apart from each other. You can't reasonably confuse them. IF the ones that I have always considered 2TSBs were indeed three colors after all, then the middle color was a brown, not a red. Whatever the process was, you can definitely tell their standard burst apart from their 3TSB with ease. Standard burst does not appear to have "red" in it at all; it appears to smoothly gradate from the outer color to the inner color. 3TSB makes the red quite obvious, and the center color is usually "quite yellow" as well. It is also pretty rare as an early G&L finish.

Bottom line: Same as the top line. 3TSB of that era is much more rare, and you can't mistake it for anything else. When you have 3TSB, it's obvious. Your "tobacco sunburst" being changed is correct...but it being changed to 3TSB is incorrect. It should have been changed to "sunburst."

[Craig]

The reason I grouped 3-Tone Sunburst with Sunburst is because of Fred Finisher's post:

The following was originally posted by Fred Finisher during his Lunch Reports from June 25-29, 2012.
He was an employee in the finishing department from 1978 (CLF Research/Music Man/G&L) until Dec. 1985.

Today I will touch on the topic of finishing because this seems to be more interesting to most enthusiasts.

There have been questions as to how the finishes were applied and what was used that I would like to touch on.
For starters, let's talk about prep. Sanding is the most thankless job in the shop no matter what field you're in.
A poor sanding job will result in a poor finish and feel. A body or neck is shaped and finish sanded prior to coming
into the finish department. Depending on the species of wood, the next step is to final sand and seal or apply a paste
wood filler ( colored for Mahogany, Natural for Ash ). The filler was applied by brush allowed to dry then wiped off
across the grain with burlap in order to leave as much as possible in the pores of the wood. If this is not done, the
finish will continue to shrink into the grain of the wood and will look like an amateur did it. Once the filler is lightly
sanded the base coats can be applied after a sanding sealer is applied and scuff sanded.This is something that has
to be done very lightly at first or there will be air bubbles and other problems to deal with. Four coats of clear was
applied to create a base coat prior to any color being applied. This might come as a surprise to some but the colors
were applied over the base coats. They were not wipe on stains or sprayed directly on the wood. The base coats
until around 1985 were 100% nitro cellulose lacquer. There were no polyester or polyurethane base coats prior to
that time. After four coats were applied and dry, they had to be smooth sanded before the color ( or in the case of
natural ) and top coats could be applied. I will continue this process breakdown throughout the day. I hope you will
stay tuned.
Fred

Footnote: When I say no polys were used prior to 1985 I mean at G&L. The very first CLF instruments did have
polyester base coats which were discontinued because of check cracking.

To clear things up about what was used, all G&L guitars before around 1985 were 100% nitro cellulose lacquer finishes.
Around '85 we began to shoot a two part polyurethane for base coats only. Bodies that were made of Ash or Mahogany
were filled with a paste wood filler. This was a time consuming process but necessary to get the smooth finish necessary
for these guitars to look right. The mahogany bodies were discontinued early on when Leo became convinced that the
tone of these instruments was not as good as the maple and ash bodies. When this happened, the bodies in production
were pulled and destroyed so any early G&L's that are mahogany are from a small group that were completed prior to this
change. The bodies came into the finish department presanded by the woodshop but not completely sanded. The final
sanding took place in finishing and then they were either filled or sealed right away. A lacquer sanding sealer was used
for this. This was then scuff sanded before four coats of clear lacquer was applied as a base coat. Filled bodies had to be
coated carefully or they would get air bubbles that were hard to remedy. Once the base coats were applied, they would
need to be scuff sanded to remove the orange peel and grain that might show through.

After the sanding was complete, the color coats were done. If a body was to remain natural, it of course was merely
sprayed with clear lacquer. If it was to be colored the process could be as simple as spraying on a solid color such
as black. If it was to be a sunburst for example, you would begin with the yellow base coat over the entire body, followed
by the cherry red perimeter being careful not to get it too dark or light, then the last step would be to apply the dark brown
perimeter burst. The outside edge needed to be opaque but the face and back of the instrument had to have a certain see
through quality to it in order for it not to look like it was "masked off". There were variances in these finishes but most were
pretty consistent. The see through blues and reds were especially touchy because they could come out blotchy or too dark.
After the colors were applied, six coats of clear nitro was sprayed on. Sometime early on we began to make it a bit easier for
the polishing department by stopping before the last coat and sanding the lacquer smooth before spraying on the last coat.
This made it easier for them to remove the orange peel during the wet sanding process. Once the final coat was applied the
bodies were allowed to dry for two weeks. This made it possible to wet sand and polish the bodies to a high gloss without
worrying about the lacquer shrinking prematurely. The necks were sprayed with a total of six coats also but they were buffed
out much sooner because there was less lacquer to dry. Once we began to spray colors on headstocks, there were some
changes on how we got them complete. Although this looked better, there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the
extra effort needed to complete them. We had a base plus bonus per piece system in place so any changes caused a lot of
heartburn with those of us who had to do the extra work.

After the bodies and necks were dry enough, they were wet sanded to a 600 grit paper using a soap and water solution. This
process took some finesse because a little too much water and the cavities and holes would swell. The buffing was done by
machine which required steady hands and focus or you stood a chance of having a high speed neck or body crack you in the
ribs or like one of the guys even worse, right between the eyes. Once the edges were polished, the top and back were polished
by a hand held buffer similar to what you see used for detailing cars. These finishes were scrutinized for defects because
nobody wanted any sub par instruments leaving the factory.

I hope this sheds a little light on what it takes to make a guitar look as good as it does when it leaves the factory.

Here is the section that indicates that the early sunbursts were 3 colors (which I have underlined):

If it was to be a sunburst for example, you would begin with the yellow base coat over the entire body, followed
by the cherry red perimeter being careful not to get it too dark or light, then the last step would be to apply the dark brown
perimeter burst. The outside edge needed to be opaque but the face and back of the instrument had to have a certain see
through quality to it in order for it not to look like it was "masked off". There were variances in these finishes but most were
pretty consistent.

.

Perhaps if I change the description in the G&L Registry to "Three-tone Sunburst (originally known as Sunburst)", that might help.

[Its_Him_Again]

The reason I grouped 3-Tone Sunburst with Sunburst is because of Fred Finisher's post:

The following was originally posted by Fred Finisher during his Lunch Reports from June 25-29, 2012.
He was an employee in the finishing department from 1978 (CLF Research/Music Man/G&L) until Dec. 1985.

Today I will touch on the topic of finishing because this seems to be more interesting to most enthusiasts.

There have been questions as to how the finishes were applied and what was used that I would like to touch on.
For starters, let's talk about prep. Sanding is the most thankless job in the shop no matter what field you're in.
A poor sanding job will result in a poor finish and feel. A body or neck is shaped and finish sanded prior to coming
into the finish department. Depending on the species of wood, the next step is to final sand and seal or apply a paste
wood filler ( colored for Mahogany, Natural for Ash ). The filler was applied by brush allowed to dry then wiped off
across the grain with burlap in order to leave as much as possible in the pores of the wood. If this is not done, the
finish will continue to shrink into the grain of the wood and will look like an amateur did it. Once the filler is lightly
sanded the base coats can be applied after a sanding sealer is applied and scuff sanded.This is something that has
to be done very lightly at first or there will be air bubbles and other problems to deal with. Four coats of clear was
applied to create a base coat prior to any color being applied. This might come as a surprise to some but the colors
were applied over the base coats. They were not wipe on stains or sprayed directly on the wood. The base coats
until around 1985 were 100% nitro cellulose lacquer. There were no polyester or polyurethane base coats prior to
that time. After four coats were applied and dry, they had to be smooth sanded before the color ( or in the case of
natural ) and top coats could be applied. I will continue this process breakdown throughout the day. I hope you will
stay tuned.
Fred

Footnote: When I say no polys were used prior to 1985 I mean at G&L. The very first CLF instruments did have
polyester base coats which were discontinued because of check cracking.

To clear things up about what was used, all G&L guitars before around 1985 were 100% nitro cellulose lacquer finishes.
Around '85 we began to shoot a two part polyurethane for base coats only. Bodies that were made of Ash or Mahogany
were filled with a paste wood filler. This was a time consuming process but necessary to get the smooth finish necessary
for these guitars to look right. The mahogany bodies were discontinued early on when Leo became convinced that the
tone of these instruments was not as good as the maple and ash bodies. When this happened, the bodies in production
were pulled and destroyed so any early G&L's that are mahogany are from a small group that were completed prior to this
change. The bodies came into the finish department presanded by the woodshop but not completely sanded. The final
sanding took place in finishing and then they were either filled or sealed right away. A lacquer sanding sealer was used
for this. This was then scuff sanded before four coats of clear lacquer was applied as a base coat. Filled bodies had to be
coated carefully or they would get air bubbles that were hard to remedy. Once the base coats were applied, they would
need to be scuff sanded to remove the orange peel and grain that might show through.

After the sanding was complete, the color coats were done. If a body was to remain natural, it of course was merely
sprayed with clear lacquer. If it was to be colored the process could be as simple as spraying on a solid color such
as black. If it was to be a sunburst for example, you would begin with the yellow base coat over the entire body, followed
by the cherry red perimeter being careful not to get it too dark or light, then the last step would be to apply the dark brown
perimeter burst. The outside edge needed to be opaque but the face and back of the instrument had to have a certain see
through quality to it in order for it not to look like it was "masked off". There were variances in these finishes but most were
pretty consistent. The see through blues and reds were especially touchy because they could come out blotchy or too dark.
After the colors were applied, six coats of clear nitro was sprayed on. Sometime early on we began to make it a bit easier for
the polishing department by stopping before the last coat and sanding the lacquer smooth before spraying on the last coat.
This made it easier for them to remove the orange peel during the wet sanding process. Once the final coat was applied the
bodies were allowed to dry for two weeks. This made it possible to wet sand and polish the bodies to a high gloss without
worrying about the lacquer shrinking prematurely. The necks were sprayed with a total of six coats also but they were buffed
out much sooner because there was less lacquer to dry. Once we began to spray colors on headstocks, there were some
changes on how we got them complete. Although this looked better, there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the
extra effort needed to complete them. We had a base plus bonus per piece system in place so any changes caused a lot of
heartburn with those of us who had to do the extra work.

After the bodies and necks were dry enough, they were wet sanded to a 600 grit paper using a soap and water solution. This
process took some finesse because a little too much water and the cavities and holes would swell. The buffing was done by
machine which required steady hands and focus or you stood a chance of having a high speed neck or body crack you in the
ribs or like one of the guys even worse, right between the eyes. Once the edges were polished, the top and back were polished
by a hand held buffer similar to what you see used for detailing cars. These finishes were scrutinized for defects because
nobody wanted any sub par instruments leaving the factory.

I hope this sheds a little light on what it takes to make a guitar look as good as it does when it leaves the factory.

Here is the section that indicates that the early sunbursts were 3 colors (which I have underlined):

If it was to be a sunburst for example, you would begin with the yellow base coat over the entire body, followed
by the cherry red perimeter being careful not to get it too dark or light, then the last step would be to apply the dark brown
perimeter burst. The outside edge needed to be opaque but the face and back of the instrument had to have a certain see
through quality to it in order for it not to look like it was "masked off". There were variances in these finishes but most were
pretty consistent.

.

Perhaps if I change the description in the G&L Registry to "3-Tone Sunburst (originally known as Sunburst)", that might help.

That Fred description is referring to 3TSB finishes. Look at 90 percent of the early G&L bursts out there, and you can clearly see that they were not painted with THAT process as described. That process describes a typical 3TSB. Maybe it takes some experience actually painting to know this...but have an understanding of finishing, and hold them in your hands, and it's plain as day that there's no red in most of them.

3TSB, with red and yellow, was the exception in the world of early G&L bursts, not the rule. Very few of them have any red in them. As for yellow, it appeared to be used sometimes, and not other times (e.g. not on the OP's or my '82 Wunkays). Pick 100 randomly selected early G&L bursts, line them up in person (not photos), and I'll bet you only 10 (if that) have a red transitional ring, while 90 do a simple gradation from outer color to inner color. It's not a matter of 90 percent of them fading out, and 10 percent being kept in closets. These were actually two different finishes – one with red, and one without.

I personally own museum quality examples of early G&L bursts. None of them have a lick of red in them. The fine mist of very dark brown beautifully gradating over yellow creates the illusion of an "orangey" third color. It's the mark of an impeccably sprayed burst. No visible "mist" like with the [usually] crappy paint jobs on old Fenders – just a seamless transition from outer to inner color, creating the appearance of several transitional colors. And, again, photos cannot capture this. They either make those beautiful transitionary tones disappear completely, creating a stark transition from outer to inner colors, or else they exaggerate them, making them appear more warm and orangey-red than they actually are.

FWIW, here's a thread I dug up on another forum, with a guy who was thrilled to get a rare 3TSB one. THAT is what 3TSB looked like. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nbd-pa ... t-20078555

Here is another thread by the same guy, with even more pix of the same bass: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nbw-ne ... s.1286183/

And here is a thread with a standard burst, to which that same guy above replied with pix of his 3TSB. This allows you to see standard burst and 3TSB, of the same era, on the same page of the same thread: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nbd-in ... l.1494833/

Photos only, of course, and photos are flawed. But they can at least illustrate the coarsest of differences between the two.

[derick]

I agree that most early G&L basses have a two-tone sunburst, that I believed could be called "tobacco sunburst." All of these that I own were mahogany bodies, so I suppose they could be clear finish with the dark-brown perimeter. A sort of "one-tone sunburst." My 1981 3-tone sunburst which is pictured in the original post, definitely got the yellow center treatment. Also my 2008 BABP L-1000 "Tobacco Sunburst" got a yellow center as well, but it is alder.

Prior to selling Fender to CBS, Leo kept a vat of yellow dye for the base coat of color, since most bodies would get the three-tone sunburst finish.

[Craig]

I have decided to change the color list in the G&L Registry to have a separate entries for Sunburst and Three-tone Sunburst.
They are listed as:
$this->color[54] = "Sunburst (1980-1991)";
$this->color[55] = "Sparkle Silver";
$this->color[56] = "Three-tone Sunburst (1992-present)";
Note that Sunburst did not change to Three-tone Sunburst in the Catalogs and Dealer Price Lists until 2001, however the representation image of Sunburst
in the 1992-1999 G&L Catalogs clearly shows it to be Three-Tone Sunburst.

I hope that this change will help in members choosing the correct name for the early Sunbursts when registering 1980-1991 instruments with a sunburst finish.

Derick, I changed the recent color change you made to your '83 L-1000 in the G&L Registry from "Tobacco Sunburst Nitrocellulose Lacquer" to "Sunburst (1980-1991)".

[yowhatsshakin]

Thanks for the update Craig. However, except for my L-1000, now it seems many of my pre-1992 Sunburst instruments (ASAT, F-100, F-150, S-500, SB basses) are labeled with the post-1992 Three-Tone. Should I update my entries myself? Or do you want to script it?

- Jos

[Craig]

Thanks for the update Craig. However, except for my L-1000, now it seems many of my pre-1992 Sunburst instruments (ASAT, F-100, F-150, S-500, SB basses) are labeled with the post-1992 Three-Tone. Should I update my entries myself? Or do you want to script it?

- Jos

I am in the process of doing the updates, I see I forget to mention that, sorry for the confusion.
I should be all done some time tomorrow. I'll post once I am done and you can check your entries affected.

[Its_Him_Again]

I agree that most early G&L basses have a two-tone sunburst, that I believed could be called "tobacco sunburst." All of these that I own were mahogany bodies, so I suppose they could be clear finish with the dark-brown perimeter. A sort of "one-tone sunburst." My 1981 3-tone sunburst which is pictured in the original post, definitely got the yellow center treatment. Also my 2008 BABP L-1000 "Tobacco Sunburst" got a yellow center as well, but it is alder.

Prior to selling Fender to CBS, Leo kept a vat of yellow dye for the base coat of color, since most bodies would get the three-tone sunburst finish.

Yes, indeed, yellow seems to have been used sometimes, and not other times.

That said, I don't recall ever seeing a standard burst (the 2TSB) over mahogany that used yellow in the middle. It's usually a golden-brown color in the middle (clear coat over brown mahogany, with the clear having warmed up a bit over the decades).

I have seen plenty of standard (2TSB) bursts with yellow in the middle...but on maple bodies, not mahogany. Only mahogany bodies I've seen with yellow laid down first are the rarer 3TSBs (like yours).

Yes, Fender's yellow was dyed into the wood before sealing. Like you said, whole bodies were dunked into a barrel of alcohol based aniline dye (very vivid, and dries very fast – and alder really soaks it up). However, around '64, while they continued the pre-sealer dyeing, they started spraying translucent yellow lacquer AS WELL, over the sealer, before bursting with the other two colors. This results in the nearly opaque yellow in the center of "target bursts." Most people find the target bursts hideous. Others love them.

The very early '54 Strats, maybe the first 100 or so, were bursted pretty much just like the mahogany G&Ls we are talking about. They are natural ash (slightly warm from the sealer coats, and even warmer after years of aging), bursting out to very dark brown.

After those, they started spraying the yellow in the middle, like G&L did on the maple bodied standard bursts.

Then they started dyeing the yellow instead, at (or "around," as everything was at Fender) the same time that they switched to alder (circa 1956).

That carried through into the late '60s, even as they transitioned through several different processes for applying 3TSB.

P.S. It just occurred to me that in many cases, the wood selection might have determined which style of burst was used. Perhaps 3TSB was used to "jazz up" relatively plain woods like alder and poplar, while the slightly more attractive maple and mahogany looked jazzy enough with standard 2TSB. I know that two of my 2TSBs are over figured maple (and the third is over very attractively grained mahogany)...and the 3TSB in those threads I linked to above looks to be very plain grained – possibly not maple at all.

[Craig]

Thanks for the update Craig. However, except for my L-1000, now it seems many of my pre-1992 Sunburst instruments (ASAT, F-100, F-150, S-500, SB basses) are labeled with the post-1992 Three-Tone. Should I update my entries myself? Or do you want to script it?

- Jos

I am in the process of doing the updates, I see I forget to mention that, sorry for the confusion.
I should be all done some time tomorrow. I'll post once I am done and you can check your entries affected.

I have now completed the updates.

[yowhatsshakin]

Thanks for the update Craig. However, except for my L-1000, now it seems many of my pre-1992 Sunburst instruments (ASAT, F-100, F-150, S-500, SB basses) are labeled with the post-1992 Three-Tone. Should I update my entries myself? Or do you want to script it?

- Jos

I am in the process of doing the updates, I see I forget to mention that, sorry for the confusion.
I should be all done some time tomorrow. I'll post once I am done and you can check your entries affected.

I have now completed the updates.

All of mine are correct. Thanks Craig!

[gbrooding]

Mine look good as well. Thank you!

[derick]

Craig, I understand and appreciate the desire to organize the Registry.

It is then, your opinion that the different versions of pre-1991 sunburst as shown in the Original Post of this thread, should not be differentiated in any way in the Registry? The three-tone sunbursts in this era are rare but they certainly do exist.

[Craig]

Craig, I understand and appreciate the desire to organize the Registry.

It is then, your opinion that the different versions of pre-1991 sunburst as shown in the Original Post of this thread, should not be differentiated in any way in the Registry? The three-tone sunbursts in this era are rare but they certainly do exist.

Because the G&L factory log books for pre-1992 list the sunburst instruments as "Sunburst", just as all catalogs and dealer price lists do for 1980-1991,
it makes sense to use the official naming. Members who registered their pre-1992 sunburst instruments can alway describe the sunburst in more detail,
like you have done on one of your L-1000 registry entries.

As I mentioned before, I grouped Three-tone Sunburst and Sunburst together earlier as Three-tone Sunburst (aka Sunburst) because of Fred Finisher's
detailed description of Sunburst as being Yellow, Cherry Red, and Dark Brown.

I hope this clarifies why I made this change.

[derick]

Well, I would take issue with the assumption that the details of all instruments as built corresponded to the official pricelists.

I special ordered a white bass in October 1981, when white wasn't on the pricelist. Leo told the store owner that he had been thinking about offering white and would build the bass. On the February 1982 pricelist, white had replaced green as a color option.

Also, I have entered two early basses that have rosewood boards, and those entries were changed to ebony. I am confident that rosewood has been entered in error in many instances, but the details that I enter are correct. If there is uncertainty, I note that in the comments.

Say, I was just looking through my comments in the registry and noticed that you (RA) had added the completion date to one of my basses. "Completion date is May 26th, 1983." That is actually the plain sunburst bass pictured on my Original Post. Do you have access to Dale Hyatt's production logs?

[Craig]

Well, I would take issue with the assumption that the details of all instruments as built corresponded to the official pricelists.

I special ordered a white bass in October 1981, when white wasn't on the pricelist. Leo told the store owner that he had been thinking about offering white and would build the bass. On the February 1982 pricelist, white replaced green as a color option.

Also, I have entered two early basses that have rosewood boards, and those entries magically change to ebony. I am confident that rosewood has been entered in error in many instances, but the details that I enter are correct. If there is uncertainty, I note that in the comments.

Since the topic of your post is "Sunburst description on early G&L Basses" i was addressing only that topic. Since you are now discussing other color options, that
is covered generally in the early catalogs as "or custom colors", and also in the disclaimer on the price lists "prices and specification subject to change without notice".

Yes, in the past have made some assumptions based on incomplete information and made incorrect corrections to some entries in our G&L Registry. In the last few years I have been given access, via some of my contacts at the factory, to the factory log books. I do realize that mistakes in the log book could have occurred and if a member feels that that information is in error, I will ask for photos of the item which is considered in error to determine if it is in error. As have been pointed out in another poster's comments that Sunburst finishes are very difficult to photograph, and going back to the photo of the two sunburst basses you posted, I have looked at that photo on different monitors and devices and still stand by my comments. However, if you want to detail what you see, then please add that to the Other Featurs field in the registry entry.

As the Registry Admin for the G&L Registry, I have been trying to correct and update the past and present entries based upon this access to the factory logs.
However, I will make sure that I will leave your registry entries as they now stand and any others you enter going forward.

[derick]

I do appreciate what you are doing, and recognize how thankless it can be.

Strictly for reference, here are some G&L bursts, sorry the photos aren't better. The '83 bass on the right on the Original Post is not in these photos.
I do now believe that the bass 3rd from the left does have a red layer, which I did not think so originally.







I acquired the 2008 LE bass on the right before any of the others shown. It was ordered as a tobacco sunburst and it seems to have an additional color band other than the yellow and dark brown. This is why I believed that the other, earlier bursts could also be described as "tobacco sunburst."
In person, I do not see evidence of a red layer on the far left fretless bass.