Modern Classic necks, string spacing, USA Doheny issue

[guitar1580]

Hi folks. I have the new mermaid Doheny that I just got, and is pictured on the other thread in this sub forum recently. I have an issue, and wanted to see what some of you all have to say, regarding the Modern Classic neck profile (with 9.5 radius). I have this same neck on my 2015 USA Bluesboy, and it has become my favorite neck, out of 6 G&Ls that I own.

First I want to say that my dealer has been great with the issue, and they got in contact with G&L with no problems, and everyone is in agreement that if I have to get a new nut cut, it will be covered under warranty, so I have ZERO complaints regarding customer service with either of them.

My semi-local well trusted luthier is going to get some accurate measurements of the neck and string spacing, but he's just opening back up after the pandemic, and had a death in the family, and I may have to wait a week to see him, so I wanted to describe this issue and see what any other Modern Classic or Doheny owners may have to say.

So when I got the new Doheny, it's mostly great, but I notice that the E strings are way closer to the edge of the board than my Bluesboy, and easily drop off the edge of the fret. On the Bluesboy, and even on my Slim C Legacy, this is not an issue. I know from my spec sheet that the Modern Classic is 1 11/16" nut width and 1 5/8" string spacing, which gives that extra space on the edges to eliminate the string being to close to the fret edge as it was on some older Fender guitars.

At first I thought that the neck was cut too narrow, but I really think that it is just the way the nut slots are cut. There seems to be extra space between the B and high E strings, causing the issue. As I said, my guy is going to get accurate measurements of the neck and assess the nut to see if that is the problem ... and compare the measurements to my Bluesboy as well, which is listed as the exact same specs on the sheets. I do realize that there is a +/- .015" tolerance.

I'm wondering if any other Doheny owners, or owners of the Modern Classic necks have ran into variances like this. I love that neck, and was expecting the Doheny to feel much like the Bluesboy that I like so much, and was surprised at the string spacing. I wouldn't think this would be done on purpose because of the Doheny pickups being different or wider, since both instruments are listed with the same specs.

I was able to get some decent pics to show the difference to my dealer, and he was able to see it. I'll try to get them onto my image hosting site a little later if anyone here wants to see them. At this point I'm just looking to see what the experiences you all have had, while I'm waiting to get this looked at more closely.

Thanks, JT

[john o]

here's a few recent pictures of my nuts

2017 asat special, modern classic neck


2015 asat classic, vintage V neck, same bone nut and 9.5 radius


2015 bluesboy, modern classic neck

on the bluesboy, i had to realign the neck a bit as the 1st E string was too close to the edge from 12th fret on up, loosened the neck plate screws a bit, pulled the neck toward the upper bout and held it, re-tightened the neck plate screws, and have been mostly happy with how that came out, but at the nut end, it was good to begin with.

[guitar1580]

Hey John. Thank you very much for the pics. Your first two pics look more like my Bluesboy, which has lots of extra room on the edges. My first impression of your third pic was that the high E was a little closer to the edge than the others, but overall, when I look at the nut, the spacing looks like what I'd expect. My new one seems to have extra space between the high E and the B.

Here are the pics of my two examples, from directly above the fretboard. It's hard to see real well in the pic, but the E strings on the Doheny are right above the top edges of the fret bevels. You can see it more up on the higher frets in pic #4. There is clearly a lot more room between the strings and the fretboard edge on the ASAT.

[Craig]

You mentioned this in your other post:

The dealer was great to work with, and put on the .011 gauge strings that I use and made the necessary adjustments.

Did the dealer replace the factory nut (which is cut by the Plek machine for .010 gauge strings) with a new nut cut for 1 5/8" spacing for
the .011 gauge strings? Or did they re-cut the existing nut to fit the .011 gauge strings? I think the dealer should re-do the nut since they
modified or changed the factory nut.

Here is a high res photo of the Photo guitar from G&L (click on the photo to see the full size photo):


Just my $0.02.

[guitar1580]

Hi Craig. Thanks for the pic. There was no mention of the nut being completely replaced, and it doesn't look to me like it has been. In the past with my other new G&Ls, I believe my local luthier just filed the slots a little to make the 11s work. I haven't had a full nut replacement on any of them. The action is all good, and there are no buzzes or string pinching, etc. I just felt that the spacing was different from my other guitar, and you can probably see that in my pics.

We discussed that the trem had to be adjusted a little with the string change, and it is now perfectly level. He mentioned that a cord did not want to plug into the jack, and he took care of that. I've heard of this issue before on these types of jacks.

The dealer did very well to make sure I was a satisfied customer. He is 7 hours away, so the guitar was shipped to me. When I got it and felt the issue of the string spacing was different from my other guitar, we discussed letting my local guy check it out instead of re-shipping it back to the dealer or to G&L. I'm not really very experienced with packaging guitars for shipment, and I didn't particularly want to have to package it up and ship it. It would seem cost prohibitive to me to ship it there and back again, possibly more than what my guy would charge to do the nut or whatever it needs. The dealer assured me that he would make sure I'm happy with the guitar, and has been stellar. I did have a local premiere dealer that was 20 min. away who just retired, and I'm hoping to make this dealer my new connection for future G&L orders.

My local luthier is very well respected and has been doing great re-frets and nut work on my other vintage electric guitars and several Martin acoustics for 26 years. I trust him more than anyone with my best instruments. It was me who thought it must be the nut, if everything else is equal, but I'm not an expert, and don't do any of my own guitar repairs. We agreed to let him check it out, measure, and compare to my other Modern Classic neck, and make a recommendation from there before doing any work. I'm confident it will be fully resolved. It's a great instrument.

JT

[mutts]

If you really don't want to wait entry level digital calipers only run about $20.00. Then you could take some measurements while you wait.

[guitar1580]

Thanks Mutts. Turns out that he's going to let me bring it in tomorrow afternoon, so I'll know what's going on after that.

I do need a set of those though, as many guitars as I have around here. Would come in handy. Thx again.

[john o]

Your first two pics look more like my Bluesboy, which has lots of extra room on the edges. My first impression of your third pic was that the high E was a little closer to the edge than the others, but overall, when I look at the nut, the spacing looks like what I'd expect. My new one seems to have extra space between the high E and the B.

Here are the pics of my two examples, from directly above the fretboard. It's hard to see real well in the pic, but the E strings on the Doheny are right above the top edges of the fret bevels. You can see it more up on the higher frets in pic #4. There is clearly a lot more room between the strings and the fretboard edge on the ASAT.

yup i see what you mean, for whatever reason, the width of the doheny neck seems too narrow, strings at the bevels of the frets, easy to slip off in either direction. this would annoy me. may want to push for a neck replacement if a nut change does not remedy this.

[johnnyqb]

I’ve had that same issue with several Modern Classic necks/nuts, which is quite ironic, since the point of the wider neck was supposedly to prevent string fall-off. So why do so many of these guitars have this problem? The high e string has to be hit precisely to keep it on the board. I just bought a Bluesboy with the Modern Classic that thankfully does not have the issue. I can’t understand: 1) how these guitars are getting through QC at G&L; and 2) how this can even be an issue, given that necks and nuts are all cut with computer-controlled precision.

I love G&Ls so much that I keep buying them, but these Modern Classic necks have almost driven me to buy only units without that neck. The 12” radius, 1/5-8” necks never seem to have that problem. I really wish G&Lwould diagnose and fix this issue.

[Craig]

I’ve had that same issue with several Modern Classic necks/nuts, which is quite ironic, since the point of the wider neck was supposedly to prevent string fall-off. So why do so many of these guitars have this problem? The high e string has to be hit precisely to keep it on the board. I just bought a Bluesboy with the Modern Classic that thankfully does not have the issue. I can’t understand: 1) how these guitars are getting through QC at G&L; and 2) how this can even be an issue, given that necks and nuts are all cut with computer-controlled precision.

I love G&Ls so much that I keep buying them, but these Modern Classic necks have almost driven me to buy only units without that neck. The 12” radius, 1/5-8” necks never seem to have that problem. I really wish G&Lwould diagnose and fix this issue.

Did you contact the dealer(s) from whom you bought the guitars with the Modern Classic necks having this issue?
If not, you need to contact them so that they can let the factory know about this issue and they can fix your guitars under Warranty.
If you and others are experiencing this issue, the best way that the factory can address this is to hear it from the dealers.

Please post photos showing the nut and full length of the neck on those guitars you have with Modern Classic neck and
indicate the ones which have the issue.

Here is one thing you might check for: String alignment issues and a simple cure.

Looking forward to see photos of your guitars.

PS It's too bad that the OP did not follow up on his last post in this thread to hear what his tech had to say about this.

[johnnyqb]

Craig, thanks for the tip. I returned the guitars that had that issue, so don’t have any pictures. I could have tried that string alignment idea, but it does seem odd that it happened on multiple instruments. I do really like the Modern Classic neck otherwise, and the one on the Bluesboy I just picked up is perfect

[guitar1580]

Hey, OP here. Just saw that this thread had some action again, so I thought I'd give the details. I had mentioned in my other thread about this issue that I had gotten a different guitar, but forgot to update this thread. Sorry about that.

Yes, when my luthier took the width measurements, they were way off. Well outside the +/- .015" tolerance listed on the spec sheet. We took measurements at 4 locations going up the neck, and the further up you went, the worse it got. I documented the measurements, and the amount that it was out of tolerance, to give to my dealer, and for them to give to G&L if needed. We also found areas where the edge of the neck dipped inward when you lay a straight edge on it, as if areas of the edge were hand sanded. You could see daylight between the neck edge and the straight edge. I also documented this with close up photos.

My dealer was cool with me returning the guitar under warranty, and G&L was cool with them, as far as I know.

I got spooked out of getting another brand new G&L for the moment. My dealer happened to have a beautiful new old stock clear orange ASAT Special with / Bigsby that was made in 2016. It has an ebony fingerboard, which is what I was wanting, and the neck specs are as they should be. I loved it when I tried it out, so the decision was easy to swap the Doheny back for the ASAT. I love G&L guitars and may try a different Doheny later at some point.

Here is the orange and black ASAT Special, assembled on Halloween day. It is a great instrument. The G&L Modern Classic neck with an ebony fingerboard with 9.5" radius is one of my favorite neck combinations ever to be produced.

JT

[Muleya]

I haven't been on the forum in a while, but was back to ask a question about the neck on my '98 Legacy and found this thread. A while back I had the new Modern Classic neck put on my 2011 Legacy. I love everything about the new neck EXCEPT the string spacing! I struggle to some extent with string fall off, on both the high and low E strings. While I love the rolled edges, I think they are perhaps rolled a bit too much. Either that, or they should have kept the narrower string spacing. I don't have this issue on any of my other guitars.

I actually e-mailed G&L to see if it was possible to get a nut with the narrower spacing...they just offered to send me a nut blank, which I took them up on. But I have never slotted a nut, so I'm not going to do it myself, and I've not decided if it's worth taking it to someone to do. There used to be a local guy who did that kind of thing and was good at it, but he moved about 30 minutes away and honestly that feels like too much effort!

But in all other respects, I love the neck...the width and profile are about perfect, the bone nut is awesome, and the finish on the back of the neck it is literally the smoothest of any of my guitars!

[guitar1580]

Sorry to hear about your issue. Strings falling off of the edge is an issue that I can't really deal with with for long. That is likely a bone nut blank they sent you. I would say it is certainly worth the 30 min. drive to get it installed & cut properly, if your guy is good. That, along with a good setup, should make a big difference. I drive an hour and 15 min. one way to my luthier, and usually have to go back the next week to pick up. I'm down there around a half dozen times per year. It's worth the drive to avoid inexperienced techs at local music stores.

You may have your guy take precice measurements to make sure the neck was cut properly. I believe that was part of the idea of the Modern Classic neck - to make it a little wider, but keep the old string spacing, which puts the extra width at the edges, and thus helping to prevent the strings from falling off.

If you look at my photos up in the third post, you can see the big difference in the two necks. Even re-cutting the nut was not going to help that Doheny, so that is something to evaluate. That's a nice guitar you have. It should play like a dream. Hope you get it worked out.

JT