SC-2 tremolo (vibrato) won't stay in tune

[cporro]

hi. i've tried a few things that haven't worked. maybe i'm missing something.

i used used some wax (synthetic candle) on the nut and bit of string. no difference.

then i adjusted the trem plate parallel with body. also no difference.

strings are settled in. they are over a month old. i tune and then use the trem as i typically would. a bit of down action. nothing dramatic. i bend some strings. again, nothing dramatic. whole step max.

it goes out of tune (mostly the low E) immediately. can't figure it out. the E typically goes about 50cernts sharp. then if i bend it it will return to almost in tune. to me this indicates it's sticking at the nut. but i think i've given it an adequate lube there with waxy stuff.

any ideas?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9Fa3KAhkEkA61Wsc6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uZaK1Ro1mBReU6nWA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hzgd6kmKBocbiWwd9

[Craig]

Check this post out which is located in the G&L Technical Questions & Tips sub-forum of the Knowledgebase: What can I do when my Legacy Trem Won't Stay in Tune?.
You might look at the trem springs cavity for any binding in the there by the trem block or springs. Perhaps post a photo of this too.

Hope this helps.

[cporro]

thx craig. i read that post you gave link to.

i had to familiarize myself with some of those terms.

i took apart my guitar and there was some play in the posts. i happened to have some plumbers tape handy. so will be wrapping posts with it when i put it back together. i also noticed (or disconnected) what i think is a grounding wire. need to fix that now. oops maybe. there were some felt washers that are falling apart. will replace those. hopefully hardware store carries them.

knife edge of trem plate is mentioned. i think that is where the trem plate contacts the posts. attached pic with my thumb near. that doesn't seem to have any wear so i'm leaving alone.

saw that you wanted a pic of the spring cavity. unfortunately took it after it was apart . i didn't notice anything obvious rubbing. but being this is the first time having this issue not sure how to look.

i still don't get how those loose posts could effect tuning. seems they would always be tilting toward the headstock not matter what. hmmm. would love to record this guitar.

here are the pics.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EyR5eyHwCGJSpbV97
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oYNwR1ifM42kEa2bA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uCPP2umz5BVHbLv87
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sSLUhCbQszqWcJDK7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NetvwYZhRKYQNiR3A

[Craig]

i still don't get how those loose posts could effect tuning.

Here is the first photo you posted:



It looks to me that the bridge plate is not seated correctly on the left pivot bolt. If that bolt is loose it can bind on the knife edge, which
would cause the bridge to not to return the full neutral floating position. BTW, there should be two felt washer on each pivot bolt. I recommend cleaning the bolt heads and the bridge plate where each bolt rests on. Get replacement felt washers and wrap plumber's tape around the loose pivot bolt threads. In our Gallery you will find copies of the two G&L Owner's Manuals: either Album: Owner's Manual, Version 1 (1980-1987) or Album: Owner's Manual, Version 2 (1988-2008).
Use the one for the build year of your guitar and do a setup. Let us know if this helps.

[cporro]

thanks. i'll give it a shot and let you know. fingers crossed.

[Katefan]

How many wraps do you have on the low E string tuner post? And do you use the stock tuners as there were designed? Meaning, cut the string length 2 tuners posts longer than the designated one (in this case the low E so cut the string at the D tuner post) insert the end straight down in the tuner shaft hole and then using your hand or a string winder, wind the excess length while creating tension with your free hand by pulling up (away from the fingerboard). You should have 2 full wraps or so on the low E post when done.

Lastly, you mentioned that the strings are a month old tho unless you stretched each string the entire length several times (from the bridge to the nut) after installing them there's a good chance the low E string has some 'slack' for lack of a better term in it. IME, wound strings require much more stretching than the non wound ones. Since strings bend s generally don't occur on the low strings, there won't be any apparent issues tho a trem bridge will quikcly reveal them. I'm not ruling out a possible bridge post issue or a nut slot that's creating binding (lube doesn't really address this) just suggesting you might want to eliminate these other possibly contributing factors...

[cporro]

i contacted G&L repair. he mentioned possible binding at the bridge. i took a look and noticed the winding was worn into the saddles. see pic. we think this is the culprit now. i ordered new saddles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bvvDVGVgyV6PakS4A

will wind posts with teflon. maybe replace trem posts.

what makes the most sense to me is the worn saddles causing some binding. i can easily understand how that would effect the tuning. hope this solves it.

i don't think it's new strings still breaking in. they were way older then a month. more like several years it turns out. but still in good shape. i restrung it and put in the case.

also don't think it's the way i wound the strings. the way it was coming out of tune and then going mostly back into tune pointed to binding imo. if the tuners slipped....it would have been a one way slide flat. right?

the nut. maybe. can explore if the above fails. we'll see.

thx, chris

[Elwood]

Good call on the saddle, those are sorta hashed.
My first thought was a burr in the nut slot, or it's catching on the back edge of the nut,
but I can see how a string might not slide smoothly over those wear marks.

Keep us posted

[Danley]

The saddles look bad, but in total honesty most of the severe issues I've experienced with vibrato systems have to do with the pivots and baseplates being worn. Hoping this solves your issue, but I would definitely inspect those.

[cporro]

just a follow up. the thing that had the most impact on the trem staying in tune was graphite from a pencil on the nut.

the replacement posts send from g&l took about 2 weeks to get to me. maybe more. in the meantime i got impatient and put the old posts back in with some Teflon to deal with the play. old posts did not look wore at all.

guitar tech said my nut was toast. i knew it was worn low. quoted me 100 to replace with bone. since the guitar is prob worth $500 and not even sure i love the tone i passed on that. pulled the nut myself and looking for a replacement. prob be another post.

in short. the graphite helped but still not record worthy. will try and update this after new nut in.