Decking the DFV.

[surfco]

I have a USA S-500 that I love the sound of it. The guitar doesn't stay in tune when using the vibrato. It didn't matter how much I lubed contact points it just wouldn't stay in tune. Anyway, I tightened the screws in the claw to deck it and it did the trick staying in tune. Now, the two studs were left untouched. I noticed the action was kinda high, neck is straight, but when I tightened the two studs I noticed the action was lower and started to buzz everywhere. I raised the saddles but it didn't have any effect, it still buzzes. Is this how the DFV works? The studs need to be kind of raised to raise the action? Is raising/lowering the studs part of setting the action in a two point vibrato bridge? The guitar now stays in tune better after decking the claw. Raising/lowering the studs didn't seem to affect running stability. I just don't want the studs too high... Am I missing something or is this just the nature of the beast?

[Craig]

I have a USA S-500 that I love the sound of it. The guitar doesn't stay in tune when using the vibrato. It didn't matter how much I lubed contact points it just wouldn't stay in tune. Anyway, I tightened the screws in the claw to deck it and it did the trick staying in tune. Now, the two studs were left untouched. I noticed the action was kinda high, neck is straight, but when I tightened the two studs I noticed the action was lower and started to buzz everywhere. I raised the saddles but it didn't have any effect, it still buzzes. Is this how the DFV works? The studs need to be kind of raised to raise the action? Is raising/lowering the studs part of setting the action in a two point vibrato bridge? The guitar now stays in tune better after decking the claw. Raising/lowering the studs didn't seem to affect running stability. I just don't want the studs too high... Am I missing something or is this just the nature of the beast?

See: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges.
If you want to block the trem, see: Dual Fulcrum Lock Down.

Also check the G&L Knowledgebase for additional information and suggestions on setups.

Hope this helps.

[surfco]

That didnot answer my question but thanks.

[Challenger]

The Dual Fulcrum Vibrato is designed to be parallel to the body and float. You don't want to deck it the same as you would on a Strat. Block it in the back of the guitar, but leave it parallel to the body. Did you check the nut? Make sure the nut is cut properly for the strings. That could be the problem instead of the DFV.

[surfco]

The nut is properly setup.

[Danley]

Really you don't want to deck a DFV like that, for the reasons you discovered. I would say you probably have worn pivots or posts on your DFV; I'd probably just replace the whole DFV at this point, unless you're comfortable knowing what to look for when you physically inspect the unit and taking a file to the posts and/or pivots.

I'd get a tech/luthier to make the diagnosis. Also- never turn the posts under pressure from the strings. If that's happened, that's the likely cause of the tuning issues. I'd say if you bother to own a guitar as nice as a US G&L with the DFV, you owe it to yourself to get it working properly

[surfco]

The title I chose was wrong.
My main question was is raising/lowering the 2 posts part of setting up the action on the guitar besides the saddles. I tightened the springs and that's way better for tuning stability.

[Danley]

How many springs are on your DFV? If you want more tension/tighter feel with a level bridge, you should add springs (rather than tighten the claw.) Is your goal to keep the bridge plate level?

The two pivot posts will increase or decrease your action, but they won't affect the degree to which your bridge pitches forward or back when you adjust the claw (in case that's the question.)

You wouldn't necessarily adjust the claw to influence tension. Select the appropriate number of springs to dictate tension, then tune up and set the claw to where the bridge is level, then determine the correct post height for overall action from there. Perform minor re-tweaks and repeat.

The claw position shouldn't dictate or drive the rest of your setup. Adjustments to the claw have the primary purpose of compensating for different string gauges; so if you absolutely didn't want to add a spring it's possible you could use a heavier string guage to lift the bridge back up but that's a really roundabout approach.

[GVDub]

I tend to play with the bar in my hand much of the time (a'la guys like Scott Henderson, Jeff Beck, and Carl Verheyen), and just swapped in a couple of the high tension springs from FU-Tone to stiffen it up a little. Now to get that bar shortened a little.

[Danley]

For sure- higher tension springs have the same effect as adding springs give or take. There are certain vibratos (Fender Mustang Dynamic Vib.) that really need more tension to work properly, but IIRC the DFV was designed for two springs, or three with a copper low-tension middle spring. I'd still say there's a problem with OP's DFV if it requires greater than normal tension to stay in tune.

TLDR - I'd disassemble the whole thing to inspect the pivots, rectify either through careful filing or replacement, then if stiffer action is still desired add springs or swap to stiff springs rather than have the claw tightened down; doing so will permit the bridge to stay level.

[neutralomen]

Yeah My DFV has been a bullet proof tone master for TEN years. Beat the hell out of it. Abuse the whammy. Sucker will not go out of tune. locking tuners help as well. Something's up with your setup.