Shaller locking tuners need string tree?

[cbm]

I have a Comanche that has the Shaller locking tuners on it. It came with a string tree on the B & high E string, but it was binding enough to cause tuning problems, so I removed it. Removing it doesn't seem to have cause any issues, but I was wondering what the conventional wisdom was here. I guess if I'm not noticing any problem, I should be happy, but maybe there's some issue I'm not seeing.

FWIW, my Legacy Special came from the factory with Sperzel lockers, and no string tree, but it looks like the Sperzels might have a slightly greater break angle. The Shaller lockers look to have very moderate staggering on the top three tuners.

[DanDoulogos]

My understanding is that you can buy "staggered" tuners (nomenclature may be off, it's been a while) -the idea is that the tuning pegs are taller toward the end, so that you don't need string tree...

Take a peek and see if this is the case - the difference isn't "crazy" obvious, but if you're looking for it, you should be able to note the difference (when you're looking for it) if this is the case.

Let me know if this helped - I'm talking with the forgetfulness of age here, and wouldn't want to lead anyone astray.

[cbm]

Yeah, the Shaller lockers are staggered, in that the hole for the string is lower on the post for the top three tuners. On my Legacy Special, the Sperzels are slightly more staggered, but I guess there's only so much you can do with the post height.

I'm not seeing a downside to having removed it yet, but I wonder why G&L put one on my Comanche w/Shallers, and didn't put one on my Legacy w/Sperzels.

[DanDoulogos]

Well, I've looked around a bit online for pics of Comanches with locking Shallers, and of those that I've found , all of them have what looks to be a dark (graphite?) tree. So I don't think it was a post-factory add-on.

The question about whether it is necessary may have more to do with personal tolerance/preference than what is "right" or "proper".

When you pluck an open string, the amount of vibration in the string that is lost to "leakage" on the other side of the nut, is directly proportional to the angle of the string as it comes over the nut. This is because the nut serves as an (imperfect) terminal point for the string. The greater the angle of the string, the more pressure that string exerts on the nut. The greater the pressure on the nut, the more likely that point will act as a terminus for the string's vibration. As the angle decreases, the pressure on the nut decreases and the more string vibration will pass through the nut.

When the pressure is sufficiently weak, open strings can rattle around in the channel cut through the nut. If there is no rattle, less bend at the nut means you'll still be losing some tone (i.e. vibration) through the nut - which will make the string sound less bright. The difference is going to more noticeable on openly plucked strings rather than on fretted strings - so the place to test isn't while you're running leads through a distorted amp - but rather plucking open strings while playing as cleanly as possible.

If a guitar has a tremolo system, I'd rather use a string tree that employs a round fulcrum, over and against the flatter style trees. The reason being that as the tension on the string changes with the use of the tremelo, the tension isn't as likely to snap the string at the tree because of the knife-like angle the string meets the tree. It's not really a concern of mind unless there is a tremelo system involved.

Bottom line (or as the Internet savvy crowd would say, TL;DR...) you're not going to break your guitar or twist your neck or anything by leaving the string trees off. If you aren't experiencing any rattle in the nut, and you cannot hear any appreciable tone loss, then that's that. I'd try a round string tree first because even if I can't personally hear a difference in tone, knowing that there is one - even if only my dog can hear it - would irritate my latent OCD tendancies to "make it right".

There. I've said more than anyone ever needed to say about that. lol.

[Craig]

I have a Comanche that has the Shaller locking tuners on it. It came with a string tree on the B & high E string, but it was binding enough to cause tuning problems, so I removed it. Removing it doesn't seem to have cause any issues, but I was wondering what the conventional wisdom was here. I guess if I'm not noticing any problem, I should be happy, but maybe there's some issue I'm not seeing.

FWIW, my Legacy Special came from the factory with Sperzel lockers, and no string tree, but it looks like the Sperzels might have a slightly greater break angle. The Shaller lockers look to have very moderate staggering on the top three tuners.

The Legacy Special was the first model to come stock with the Graph-Tech graphite nut in it's introduction in 1993.
G&L had been using Graph-Tech string trees (black) on their guitars for quite awhile. See: 1993-94 G&L Catalog in the Ad Slicks and Memorabilia section of our Gallery.
They also came stock with Sperzel Locking tuners and the black string tree.

When the Comanche returned to production in 1998, it, too, was fitted with Graph-Tech graphite nut, black string tree, but with Schaller Locking tuners.
See this page from the 1998 G&L Catalog:

See this page from the 1998 Dealer Price List:


Perhaps the Legacy Special was ordered with the string tree deleted by the dealer/customer.

To see the differences between the Sperzel and Schaller Locking tuners, see this post: Locking tuners question.

I've emailed your question to one of my contacts at the factory and also asked if the current G&L locking tuners need a string tree.

Hope this helps.

[Craig]

Here is Spencer Brown's reply:

Hi Craig,

We put a tree on all our instruments regardless of key type. With the staggered tuners it is often not necessary to have it there.
But the increased break angle from the tree can help sometimes with over-ringing at the nut. If anything it just makes the nut a little more forgiving.
If they aren’t experiencing over-ringing then there is no other reason the tree would need to be there.

Hope that helps,

Spencer

[cbm]

This is terrific information, thanks.

I was having tuning problems with the string tree, and haven't noticed any problems without it, so I'll leave it off.