G&L Tribute ASAT tuning issue

[Sweet Lou 275]

A little help would be appreciated if anyone has some. Purchased a brand new Tribute ASAT Ash about a month ago from an online retailer. There were issues getting it to hold tune (did the usual, stretched the strings, made sure the nut slots were lubed, nothing hanging up on the nut or saddles, etc). Tuners themselves were the only thing I didn't really touch, so put some Sperzel locking tuners on it. That remedied that portion of it.

After getting my action set (which is the same I've set every other Tele I've owned), I proceeded to intonation. Guitar didn't fight me too much and it was pretty easy. Have everything within 1/2 cent. I used the generally accepted 12th harmonic/12th fretted method. After getting the intonation spot on, that's where I ran into the glaring issue.

The E1, B, and G strings are all FLAT at the first fret by about 7-8 cents. I do not mash strings, and even putting the string to the board hard did not pull it even or sharp. I have always had guitars slightly sharp at the first, so this is already something new to me. The D and A were also flat at the first fret by 3-4 cents. Given even temperament tuning I am fine with it since they will all be close enough. When I got to the E6, I found the string is about 12-13 SHARP at the first.

I immediately tried a new E6 string in the event I got a bad one. No dice.

Since I replaced the tuners, G&L is refusing to honor the warranty. I do not say this to slander, only to state a factual piece of information. I have never had a guitar do this, and have so far been stumped as to a remedy. I took it to a friend of mine (who is a Fender authorized luthier) and we tried several things. We tried compensating at the nut, but that didn't help at all. The guitar can't play a chord anywhere on the neck without massive amounts of standing waves which will be impossible to hide. I am used to some amount of give and take, but as it sits it is unplayable. I'm just trying to keep from having a very expensive door stop. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Aside from thinking the neck itself is garbage and I just need to replace it, I'm out of ideas on what to do.

[cho]

Sorry, I don't have any ideas. If the guitar is in tune with open strings, but not at the first fret, then I would think the only things you could do are (1) use compensated nut and (2) adjust the intonation. It sounds like you did the first and I am assuming you did the second. Beyond that, I don't know what could help....

[Craig]

A little help would be appreciated if anyone has some. Purchased a brand new Tribute ASAT Ash about a month ago from an online retailer. There were issues getting it to hold tune (did the usual, stretched the strings, made sure the nut slots were lubed, nothing hanging up on the nut or saddles, etc). Tuners themselves were the only thing I didn't really touch, so put some Sperzel locking tuners on it. That remedied that portion of it.

After getting my action set (which is the same I've set every other Tele I've owned), I proceeded to intonation. Guitar didn't fight me too much and it was pretty easy. Have everything within 1/2 cent. I used the generally accepted 12th harmonic/12th fretted method. After getting the intonation spot on, that's where I ran into the glaring issue.

The E1, B, and G strings are all FLAT at the first fret by about 7-8 cents. I do not mash strings, and even putting the string to the board hard did not pull it even or sharp. I have always had guitars slightly sharp at the first, so this is already something new to me. The D and A were also flat at the first fret by 3-4 cents. Given even temperament tuning I am fine with it since they will all be close enough. When I got to the E6, I found the string is about 12-13 SHARP at the first.

I immediately tried a new E6 string in the event I got a bad one. No dice.

Since I replaced the tuners, G&L is refusing to honor the warranty. I do not say this to slander, only to state a factual piece of information. I have never had a guitar do this, and have so far been stumped as to a remedy. I took it to a friend of mine (who is a Fender authorized luthier) and we tried several things. We tried compensating at the nut, but that didn't help at all. The guitar can't play a chord anywhere on the neck without massive amounts of standing waves which will be impossible to hide. I am used to some amount of give and take, but as it sits it is unplayable. I'm just trying to keep from having a very expensive door stop. If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Aside from thinking the neck itself is garbage and I just need to replace it, I'm out of ideas on what to do.

Which model Tribute ASAT do you have? There are 7 different models plus one Lefty model, see: July 1, 2015-present Tribute Series Production Models....
Plus 4 more, which are exclusive to Musician's Friend/Guitar Center, see: 2015-present MF/GC Exclusive Tribute Models.

[Sweet Lou 275]

It's the Limited Edition Tribute ASAT Classic Ash, righty model. Have it strung with 10's since 9's feel light. If anything a heavier string should help, so not sure what to think. Made sure the strings weren't binding anywhere and were sitting correctly at the saddles and nut.

[Al Evans]

I'd be interested to know what kind of results you get from your Teles, under the same conditions. I quickly checked my (USA) ASAT (Classic Bluesboy 90), and thought I didn't quantify the results, they varied a bit from string to string, and they weren't all that accurate (except open and at the twelfth fret). And even open, it matters whether I have my left hand on the neck or not.

As I'm sure you know, a lot of factors go into making guitars hard to tune....

--Al Evans

[NickHorne]

Based on your info, the issue would seem to be confined to the nut.
Before trying any further compensations, I would suggest re-setting your bridge intonation adjustments so as to get agreement between the 1st and 13th frets, so as to keep the nut out of the equation. Not with a harmonic (as you would need a capo for that, which would be fairly sure to introduce errors of its own) but just by gently, normally fingering at the frets. Now you should have a guitar that plays properly everywhere except for flat open strings (and a sharp E6).

If the top five are flat and the E6 is sharp at fret 1, the only conclusion I can draw is that the E6 nut slot does not come all the way to the front (fingerboard-side) of the nut, i.e. the string is taking-off at a point inside the nut instead of at the edge. An experienced nut-making tech may be able to correct this with very careful filing, but this is bound to lower the slot slightly, at the least. If this lowering doesn't cause open-E6 buzzing, then you're ok (and probably lucky).

Then it might be possible to compensate, in the manner of a MusicMan nut for example, by removing material from the fronts of the other slots such that the speaking-length of the string, from nut to fret 1, is increased a little.

But perhaps it's worth asking your tech, before committing to all the above, whether it's in fact more cost-effective to remove the nut, determine its proper position, widen the slot towards the tuners to enable a new nut to be in the right place, and filling the resulting small gap, on the fingerboard side of the nut, with some hardwood veneer. Would be neater, and just possibly actually cheaper.

Pick you person for the job wisely; not all rock'n'roll stores care enough to do proper tech-ing really well.

[Sweet Lou 275]

I'd be interested to know what kind of results you get from your Teles, under the same conditions. I quickly checked my (USA) ASAT (Classic Bluesboy 90), and thought I didn't quantify the results, they varied a bit from string to string, and they weren't all that accurate (except open and at the twelfth fret). And even open, it matters whether I have my left hand on the neck or not.

As I'm sure you know, a lot of factors go into making guitars hard to tune....

--Al Evans

Typically, I can fret anywhere on the neck or play any chord and all the strings are at least close enough in tune that it doesn't assault the ears and goes unnoticed. At the first fret I almost always see every string sharp, but only 3-4 cents at most. Since they all are in even temperament, it still sounds fine. This one is just an exception.

I broke out my scales and the frets are off. Distance from nut to center of every fret is off by 1/16 or more. The nut does not appear to be square to the frets either. I think this one just shifted in the cnc or something.

I got an email back from Benjamin at G&L. It says he is general foreman/factory manager at G&L USA. He started by reiterating they wouldn't cover it since I changed the tuners, then insulted me (20 years experience) and my luthier (40+ years). Here's a direct quote:

"I could go on and on writing a book about the stupid things self-aggrandizing “luthiers” say to customers but the bottom line is nothing you said couldn’t be fixed and fixed quickly with the right skills and knowledge."

I might just be taking it too hard, but I don't understand the need to say ANYTHING like that, especially to a customer. Our combined 60 years experience has been unable to find a solution to this problem without MAJOR work to the neck. No one on this forum or tdpri has had a solution either. I find a comment like that insulting to pretty much any guitar player out there. Benjamin finished by saying he would override the warranty department and take it in himself, but too late. I will never own another G&L. I'm not spending another dime on this thing shipping it back, probably only to have it sit in a corner at G&L until they send it back and say nothing's wrong with it. He could have just said no we're not covering it and it would have been fine. I don't see the need to make the statements he did. Thanks to all for the help, but I'm moving on. G&L has next to nothing for ways to get a hold of them, otherwise I would find someone higher to complain to. No recourse but to wash my hands of it. G&L sure seems to have.

[Al Evans]

I broke out my scales and the frets are off. Distance from nut to center of every fret is off by 1/16 or more. The nut does not appear to be square to the frets either. I think this one just shifted in the cnc or something.

Wow, yeah, that would certainly do it. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

"I could go on and on writing a book about the stupid things self-aggrandizing “luthiers” say to customers but the bottom line is nothing you said couldn’t be fixed and fixed quickly with the right skills and knowledge."

Although it's probably a true statement, I agree that this is completely out of line. He has no idea of your capabilities, or those of your luthier.

--Al Evans

[NickHorne]

I would just like to reiterate that, if you're still minded to fix this issue, it's overwhelmingly likely to be the nut position that's the issue, not the frets!
Don't let anyone start filling / recutting FRET slots prematurely. I really do doubt that "the frets are off".

You probably have enough fingerboard wood behind the nut to stand moving it in that direction by 1/16 or so.

[Sweet Lou 275]

The 2nd, 7th, 13, and 16th are 'off'. They are not spaced correctly to the rest. Nut is certainly the main culprit, I agree.

[andy_tchp]

The 2nd, 7th, 13, and 16th are 'off'. They are not spaced correctly to the rest. Nut is certainly the main culprit, I agree.

Yikes! This is disappointing on many levels.

- Sounds like QC has gone right down the toilet. I mean, the neck is basically firewood for the effort it would require to remedy the situation. Then again, they're made in Cort's Indonesian factory now aren't they so perhaps unsurprising...

- The response from a G&L employee was totally unwarranted, and I don't think would pass muster with consumer protection laws over here in .au.


I'd be most interested to hear the result if you did decide to send it in to Benjamin to be fixed and fixed quickly with the right skills and knowledge. Good to know he's not one of those 'self-aggrandizing' types, too

[Tooslowhand]

I don't see how changing the tuning machines can void the warranty on the guitar unless the issue can be shown to be related to the tuner change; which seems unlikely in this case. I would not try to justify the kind of behavior you got from G&L, but I have only had positive experiences with Ben. Maybe he was having a bad day. Hopefully you can send the guitar to them and get it taken care of.

[geoff douglas]

Hi Lou,,,I understand your frustration but might I suggest that when the red mist has cleared a little and a calmed approach to this issue is considered, that it would be wise to take Ben up on his offer of taking the instrument back for his assessment. There is truly nothing but the return delivery cost to loose and every warranty case has that condition i think. You might be surprised with the guitar on its return, I think you should consider it anyway,,
Cheers and merry Christmas to you and all

[Asat1]

setting up a guitar to your liking seems to me a normal step after buying a guitar and does not influences waranty
in this case you tried all you could do but don't get it right and changing tuners has nothing to do with this problem.
if frets don 't line up, if the nut is not lining up with the frets, you could possible make a photo of it by putting a, i think you call it ruler, over the fretboard on high E and low e position and it will show on the photo's because the frets give different reading with the frets.

but in the Netherland the seller has to solve this kind of problems, so the shop has to provide you a good product without flaws.
what do ore did they do for you?

[Sweet Lou 275]

Thanks, geoff, but I took care of it myself. The red mist is somewhat persistent with someone like myself. The nut slot wasn't square on the bottom and was not square to the bass side. I had to flatten the bottom of the slot and widen it to move it to the right position. Had to make a new nut with a wider base to fit the new slot. Also had to file back slightly the nut slot on the E1, B, and G. It's fixed, not to my liking, but for someone not as discerning as myself it will work fine. I got it primarily for recording, but I can't do much more without adjusting a few fret locations. I'm just dumping it and building one. I hate making them and keeping them, but even on my worst day they're better than this. Appreciate the replies.

[geoff douglas]

Hi again Lou. I guess what this issue has proved is that even the most modern robotic loaded CNC controlled machines can have a bad day. You were just unlucky to get the lemon that slipped through the QC checks it seems and that is most unfortunate for sure. I have no doubt that G&L would have put a new neck on for you if given the chance, but as you say, the mist is quite persistent so there is little they can do about that. Maybe in time you could look at G&L again and hopefully have a better experience the second time around.