Low Serial Number Broadcasters

[FZTNT]

I would like to solicit the advice of all the guys on the forum that worked for G&L in the eighties, those that knew Leo, George and Dale personally, the long time collectors and owners of Leo Era G&Ls and Broadcaster enthusiasts and historians.

Just out of interest, We know that BC's 1 through 5 are somewhat accounted for. Only 1, 2, 3 and 5 seem to be registered. I know that Tim lusted after # 4 for a long time and perhaps he knows of its whereabouts.

BC1 was torn up and found in a storage unit and was purchased by a member of the forum last year.
BC2 was made for Dale but I am not sure who is currently in possession of it.
BC3 was made for George and Might still be in his estate, not sure who actually has it.
BC4 Again, not in the registry but might be with a known person.
BC 5 is in the private collection of Dale Hyatt according to the registry.

I have a few questions. Other than some of the one-off (blue) guitars I would assume that these guitars are considered the most valuable Broadcasters out there. Yes/No?

Are there any Leo Broadcasters that he owned?

If one were to come up for sale, which one would be the most sought after / valuable?

What would be a reasonable price to pay for each one?

Please let me know your thoughts, I am just pondering the values compared to other famous guitars both G&L and otherwise.

Thanks, I think it's a very interesting conversation,

Tom

[Katefan]

Hey Tom,

You may want to keep in mind that since the S/N plates were not used sequentially that opinions differ as to which guitars were actually made first. I realise the first 5 or so would be deemed very collectible b/c as you pointed out that Dale & George owned/had ownership so obviously those would be considered by most to be highly collectible.Aas As far as other Broadcasters goes I think newer, older isn't necessarily a factor... what is is that they are authentic and that they have Leo's handwritten signature.
In my book, there are 3 other highly collectible Broadcasters out there - the one Mr. Carl Perkins owned and the two Purple ones that were made for Prince.

My .02.

Cheers,
KF

[FZTNT]

KF,

Absolutely agree, the early numbered Broadcasters were made last. May 1986. So it makes a kind of reverse significance to the actual number. We truly do not know for certain what number was the first to be built.

So, in that case, what is the value of a Broadcaster being owned by Leo, Dale or George? in actual dollars, what would you pay? That is what I am asking. Does the fact that these guys owned it add significantly to the value?

If, let's say, in the case of #1 which was given to Mark St John and somewhat butchered, as the story goes but still a playable instrument, had pictures of him playing it in full Kiss makeup on stage. Would that add to the value? (I wonder if there are such pics, that would be cool).

So what would you pay for one owned by Dale, or George. I am sure that they would be in virtually unplayed condition if they come from the estate so $3K-$4K would probably be a starting price even if not owned by one of the G&L principals. Would the price double, or perhaps more/less? One owned by Leo would be the highest I would think. Did he own any for real? I have never seen a post that mentions what number was his. There are pics of him with Broadcasters but were any made just for him?

Please all, give me your thoughts.

Tom

[y2kc]

FYI- there is a maple fretboard Broadcaster in mint condition for sale on Reverb and the asking price is kinda high. Could this be the future for this model or is he just dreaming?

If anyone would like to buy that for me I would appreciate it,

y2kc

[FZTNT]

FYI- there is a maple fretboard Broadcaster in mint condition for sale on Reverb and the asking price is kinda high. Could this be the future for this model or is he just dreaming?

If anyone would like to buy that for me I would appreciate it,

y2kc

It looks nice but too much on the price. Although the date on the tag is my birthday. Not the year but still the day and month. It's funny, he refers to it as a 1985 G&L Brodcaster Anniversary in Blackfinish.

Tom

[meursault]

and the two Purple ones that were made for Prince.

Are there pics of them ???

[Katefan]

I haven't seen any pics but Fred Finisher mentioned them - that's how I heard about their existence.
Cheers,
KF

[FZTNT]

You guys still are not answering my question in the OP. What would these guitars be worth to you?

Tom

[y2kc]

First of all if you have not played a Broadcaster you are missing a very nice guitar. Of the guitars you mentioned I would only be interested in #1 and #3. How much I would be willing to pay is another story.

It is hard to put a price on these guitars.

y2kc

[Fumble fingers]

when I bought BC829 a mint BC on epay was 2200 to 2500.00 , nothing special just clean and mint ....... lowest BC I saw was a beat up (but all there) 1500.00 ..... I paid 2500 for 829 , like new mint , one of the later one's made but not as late as yours ..... these ( 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 ) would have to be higher in value , how much hard to say

[cho]

I recently paid $2100 (direct sale, not through ebay) for a minty one (#058) with maple fretboard, original case and all the papers

[FZTNT]

And these prices are generally consistent within the constraints of regular Broadcasters. Vintage Bluebook puts a mint Broadcaster at $3.5K. So if it was Dales or Georges, would you pay double that? More perhaps? Is a Dale Broadcaster worth more than a George Broadcaster? Supposed I said I am selling Dale's #2 Broadcaster for $10K, is that a reasonable price? Should I ask for more? What if it were George's #3, is $10K good or too much?

You guys aren't too good at this game, although I am being serious, so you can't just say I bought one for 2500 or that's another story. Tell the story. I have a great Broadcaster that I bought for an excellent price. But what about the top 5, or bottom 5 if you will. Would they be worth significantly more than a mint Broadcaster at $3.5K and by how much?

I know i'm being a pain in the ass but I want specifics, not just anecdotal responses.

Thanks, love you guys,

Tom

[y2kc]

Time to get me one of those Broadcaster guitars you speak of. Going to Guitar Center today to see what they have.

Yes I agree with Tim, they are the kings of G&L's.

y2kc

[yowhatsshakin]

Tom,

FYI, in 2010 I paid $3,700 in total for my 2 Broadcasters, one with ebony board from George Gruhn for $1,800 and a beautiful never played mint Broadcaster from a private collector for $1,900. The amounts are low mainly due to what Tim alluded to. So call me lucky.

In my book, Dale's guitars are worth a little more than guitars previously owned by George or Lloyd. All these gentlemen had at least 1 Broadcaster as well as owning one of the Lacewood Commemoratives. Depending on the model prices will vary but I'd be willing to pay say $1k extra for a Dale guitar over a George guitar, just for the provenance alone. And provided a George guitar comes at least with a Geoff Fullerton signed COA, paying about double market value of the same instrument not owned by one of these people is reasonable.

For a Broadcaster today, I would expect Lloyd's to be in the $5k-$7k range, George's to be in the $6k-$8k, and Dale's in the $7k -$9k range with a little more if you're able to find one of his Kahler equipped Broadcasters (especially the maple board one).

My 2¢.

- Jos

[cho]

For me, personally, I would not pay much more for a low number Broadcaster than a regular one, but I am coming at this more as a player than as a collector. I actually prefer my '86 ASAT to my Broadcaster, so if I had to choose only one, I would keep the ASAT. I bought the Broadcaster out of curiosity, not knowing how it would compare to others, but knowing that I could get my money back if I wanted to sell it. I know this doesn't answer the OP question, but the point I am making is that valuing these guitars is very subjective.

[Katefan]

For me, personally, I would not pay much more for a low number Broadcaster than a regular one, but I am coming at this more as a player than as a collector. I actually prefer my '86 ASAT to my Broadcaster, so if I had to choose only one, I would keep the ASAT. I bought the Broadcaster out of curiosity, not knowing how it would compare to others, but knowing that I could get my money back if I wanted to sell it. I know this doesn't answer the OP question, but the point I am making is that valuing these guitars is very subjective.

+1

Cheers,
KF

[y2kc]

Seriously?

y2kc

[cho]

Seriously?

y2kc

To whom are you addressing, and to which issue?

[Katefan]

To clarify - my +1 is in reference to Cho's last sentence of his post.

Cheers,
KF

[Elwood]

I might be tempted by a purple 'caster but would I play it?

However an ASAT like this that I could actually play alot and let a buddy play
has loads of value if you tweak your definition of valuable a bit



sold ASAT on reverb

[WitSok]

I'm more in line with Cho. I can understand why people would pay more if you are having an investment mode. But as for a piece to play, why not go for the best deal possible? For me I'm more interested in a guitars unique or rare features rather than the past ownership. As such I'm not interested in paying premiums for guitars owned by famous or important people. While I'm not a big fan of Prince , his purple Broadcasters would be of more interest to me because of their unique color.

Broadcasters are definitely cool, but a vintage SC-2 in very good condition in either Viking Blue or Fullerton Red that wasn't owned by anyone famous at a real good deal is way higher on my want list. After all, it was the SC-2 that lead to the Broadcaster.

Dan

[WitSok]

I realize red and blue are not that rare for an SC-2, but I like those better than white or black, even though I hear black guitars sound best.

Would definitely consider Sun Burst due to it being less common...

[meursault]

+1 with cho...

[Katefan]

"I realize red and blue are not that rare for an SC-2, but I like those better than white or black, even though I hear black guitars sound best. "

+1



I've thought the same thing re SC-2's paving the way...

Cheers,
KF

[LeoFThe Champion]

FYI- there is a maple fretboard Broadcaster in mint condition for sale on Reverb and the asking price is kinda high. Could this be the future for this model or is he just dreaming?

If anyone would like to buy that for me I would appreciate it,


y2kc

What price was this bloke trying for ?

[y2kc]

I think it is 6k

Casey

[FZTNT]

Yes, $6K and it's in very good condition. I doubt he will get that much for it though. It does look like someone bought the one that was asking $2K for and that was in well played shape. Makes me feel like I got a hell of a deal on mine though.

Tom

[BrockLee]

No added value to me. I see no significance in which neckplate got stamped in a particular part of the sequence. That is all it means. Most of the really low numbers were used in 1986. Of the first 10 serial numbers, only #2 is missing from the 1986 production logs.

1- 5/2/86
3-5/2/86
4-3/25/86
5-5/2/86
6-5/2/86
7-5/5/86
8-5/5/86
9-5/20/86
10-5/20/86

[yowhatsshakin]

No added value to me. I see no significance in which neckplate got stamped in a particular part of the sequence. That is all it means. Most of the really low numbers were used in 1986. Of the first 10 serial numbers, only #2 is missing from the 1986 production logs.

1- 5/2/86
3-5/2/86
4-3/25/86
5-5/2/86
6-5/2/86
7-5/5/86
8-5/5/86
9-5/20/86
10-5/20/86

From pics sent to me a long time ago, BC000002 was owned by Dale Hyatt, has an ebony board, and a date of 3-18-1986 on the hang tag. Why it is not filled out in the sales log I do not know, but maybe Dale didn't bother keeping the guitar himself.

- Jos

[FZTNT]

No added value to me. I see no significance in which neckplate got stamped in a particular part of the sequence. That is all it means. Most of the really low numbers were used in 1986. Of the first 10 serial numbers, only #2 is missing from the 1986 production logs.

1- 5/2/86
3-5/2/86
4-3/25/86
5-5/2/86
6-5/2/86
7-5/5/86
8-5/5/86
9-5/20/86
10-5/20/86

From pics sent to me a long time ago, BC000002 was owned by Dale Hyatt, has an ebony board, and a date of 3-18-1986 on the hang tag. Why it is not filled out in the sales log I do not know, but maybe Dale didn't bother keeping the guitar himself.

- Jos

Brock, We know most of this. It's posted in the registry. It's written in more than one book and spoken about quite freely on several web sites. I still have not seen one after 876 or May 23rd 1986. But thanks for the unsubstantiated information.

I have personally spoken to the current owner of #2 in the last few weeks several times. He's a wonderful chap and helped me out in my recent endeavors. #2 came to him through a third party directly from Dale's estate.

Jos, IDK...would Dale have entered it in the sales log if he knew he was taking it for himself? After all, it was not sold, nor, in his mind, was it supposed to be. The others could have ended up being sold so who knows. Although, it is reported that #5 is still in his estate.

Tom

[yowhatsshakin]

Jos, IDK...would Dale have entered it in the sales log if he knew he was taking it for himself? After all, it was not sold, nor, in his mind, was it supposed to be. The others could have ended up being sold so who knows. Although, it is reported that #5 is still in his estate.

Tom

Tom,

Many of the instruments that Dale kept were entered in the sales log. But apparently this BC000002 was not entered in the Broadcaster log and I know personally of another instrument he kept in his office which was not entered in the (ordinary) sales log. I have no solid information when Dale would enter an instrument, or have it entered, and when not.

- Jos

[Elwood]

To add what might be a data point... my '90 SkyHawk, with "Dale" scribblings inside, wasn't entered into
log books.

[KenC]

I own two (that I know of) that aren't in the sales log. One is clearly an employee build (a fretless L-2000 with off-menu finish, fingerboard, neck finish and neck profile). The other is an ASAT Classic Sig with some of the very earliest documented neck and body dates, which I bought from GC near Nashville. That GC had a matching ASAT Sig right afterward. Dale was known to have taken samples to session players in Nashville right about that time, so I've assumed my ASAT Classic Sig was one of them.

My understanding is that instruments were entered in the log when they were "sold" from the factory to G&L Sales. Anything that didn't go through this process, including employee guitars and instruments Dale used for player feedback or marketing, would not have gone into the log unless Dale wanted to make a point of documenting it. That's my understanding, anyway.

Ken

[Katefan]

That makes sense Ken. I imagine there are quite a few instruments out there like you say that were considered test mules. My ASAT Classic "Blues Boy Prototype" is another one that's not in the log book either. I was in contact with the original owner a couple of years ago who said he bought it direct from Dale back in the early 90's.
Yo Elwood - I never knew your '90 Skyhawk had 'Dale' Scribblings - too cool!

Cheers,
KF