HNGD HB

[FZTNT]

Hi All...

Since I was unable to secure the Comm Lacewood recently sold on Ebay I lined up a consolation prize of some interest. It's another 2004 ASAT Spacial Build HB of which only 35 were made. There are some interesting things I noticed when comparing these two guitars side by side and wanted to get some thoughts and professional opinions about what I have found. The two guitars are basically the same but have some differences that raise interest. I did speak with G&L and confirmed that the second one is completely legit so no worries, just food for thought as well as perhaps documentation and if any of you have one of these HBs what do you find on yours that may even raise additional interest.

First some basic pics:

Here's the new HB, in virtually unplayed condition. There is dust on some of the pics that really looks bad but I assure you, it's just dust in the flash.


The two together


Now here is the Headstock of the new HB That does not have "Guitars by Leo" on the decal.........And it's there on the first one.


On the new HB the serial Number decal is black and thousands of numbers away from the first HB which has the expected white decal.


Now here is another odd thing that I have not seen on any of my other ASAT's. Look closely and you will see a small circle to the left of the neck plate that looks like the ones you see on almost every headstock of every G&L guitar. It's a dowel that has been cut off and finished with the rest of the body. Does anyone know what this is for? Even the ones on the back of the headstocks, What are they for? Perhaps those of you that have worked for G&L in the past could shed some light on this.

Heres the new one.........................................................................................................................................And here's the old one.


One more thing for now. The case that came with this new guitar was stated as the original Tolex case but it's brown. Is this something they did in 2004 or any year for that matter?


So as usual, I continue to be amazed at the different variations with these incredible guitars and would like to open up a discussion about what I have found. What do you all think? Great history lesson to be sure.

Thanks for the input and I remain most grateful for all your knowledge, excitement and inside.

Tom

[Tooslowhand]

My understanding is that the "Birthmark" on the back of the older G&L headstocks is where a hole was that was part of the forming / finishing process. It was filled in with a dowel and finished with the neck. I've never seen one on the body before.

[yowhatsshakin]

Tom,

Congrats with your new purchase!

Indeed, either a body or a neck is secured in any fixture (old or new) with 2 dowel pins on the fixture. This means holes in either body of neck. When these get filled, you get the birth marks.

My 2004 ASAT HB, also came in a brown case, white S/N and "Guitars by Leo" decal under the logo. Funnily enough, if the case of the first one is NOT brown, that to me looks a little weird (but you can swap them ). These guitars kind of fall in the CCD Special Edition category, although they are not advertised as such on the G&L web site. But it basically means they are abe to make them at any time provided materials are available. My theory would be that there was a (small) batch made at a later date, and you have one. Take of the neck Tom!

Hope this helps,

- Jos

[FZTNT]

I do need to do some work on the neck, there's a bit of a bow in it, not too bad just very slight and the truss rod should take care of that. the action is real high, this is because the saddles are almost at the top of their travel. So, I will take the neck off at some time and check out what that reveals. Is this why these guitars are not in the rare bird list?

I will have to scrutinize my other guitars a bit more to see if they have this birthmark on the back of the body. I once asked them at G&L what this was on the headstock and he was a bit vague but said they still do it out of some sort of homage to the old ways but that it is no longer really necessary.

I'll report what I find when I take the neck off.

Tom

[yowhatsshakin]

Tom,

There were a slew of mahogany body guitars that were build in 2004: ASAT HB, "hog" ASAT Bluesboy, "hog" Comanche, "hog" S-500, and "hog" Legacy. Although all built in limited number, they never made it into the Rarebird list because they weren't called out as such. Even if they were marked as Special Build instruments, they would still not be Rarebirds; only low production pre-BBE instruments, BBE-era Limited Editions, and Buffalo Borthers Special Editions have made it into that list. But if you browse the List of Special Edition & Non-Production ASAT-style guitars and/or Production List of G&L Instruments (USA), you'll see how limited they were (less than about 140 combined).

- Jos

[Fumble fingers]

I saw a Hog build Legacy HB that was all green on epay .... even the neck was green ... you don't see them for sale very often

[FZTNT]

OK, so I took the neck off today and found some odd stuff, as usual.

Here are pics of the neck and neck pocket. Can anyone decipher these markings?

[yowhatsshakin]

Tom,

Looks like a 2008 guitar, maybe even with a completion date in very early 2009, which jibes with the S/N. That number with a "#" in front of it might be the invoice number for this special order.

- Jos

[FZTNT]

Actually, I solved the mystery. The question now is, how does what I found effect the value.

I spoke with Ben in the G&L repair department and sent him these photos. He informed me that this guitar is a 2004 HB without a doubt. However, it was sold to a dealer in Canada who did not take very good environmental care of it. The neck warped so it was sent back under warranty for replacement. The body date is 2004 but there is no real neck date. The number on the neck is the RA number for the repair. John Toner was an employee that, according to Ben, always signed every guitar he came into contact with, much to the disapproval of G&L. Apparently he was not well liked. That's just rumor and has little to do with this guitar.

The good news is that this neck was Plek'ed whereas the original ones were not. They got the Plek machine in 2008 I believe and did not provide build sheets until 2011.

So it's kind of a weird thing really because it is not "original" as described in the sale. What do you think I should do? Do you think this replaced neck significantly reduces the value? I checked the pickups and they are correct and match my other HB. So, it's still a great guitar to play once I get the setup done.

I would appreciate any input as to the value of this guitar and if you think I should challenge the seller on it's "originality".

Tom

PS...there is also a "birthmark" on the back down near the back strap button...

[yowhatsshakin]

Tom,

It is still an ASAT HB for all intents and purposes, so I would use the same value.

- Jos

[Craig]

The good news is that this neck was Plek'ed whereas the original ones were not. They got the Plek machine in 2008 I believe and did not provide build sheets until 2011.

Actually, they started using the PLEK machine in 2006 and yes, the inclusion of the Custom Build Specification sheet started in February 2011.

[Craig]

Tom,

It is still an ASAT HB for all intents and purposes, so I would use the same value.

- Jos

Since the neck repair was done by the factory under Warranty, I agree with Jos.

[Fumble fingers]

done at the factory and documented before sold from the store ..... can't get much better than that ! , my 2000 Comanche received a factory replacement neck with all the options I wanted including stainless steel frets , not planning on selling it but with a factory stainless frets (in my case) factory replacement neck sure can't devalue much IMHO