NBD - '77 MusicMan StingRay

[KenC]

This bass was absolutely not a planned-out decision. I happened to see it on the wall of my favorite local store three weeks ago, and decided in pretty short order that I would be willing to part with one of my less-played G&Ls and some pedals to make it happen. I've learned never to put an instrument back on the wall while I mull it over, and that paid off in this case. While I was holding it, two other regular customers at the store put their name on a waiting list in case I decided not to buy it.

Anyway, here is it: a very played-in example of a 1977 MusicMan StingRay Bass. I agree with the store owner that it has most likely been refinished, but the refin must have been done very early in the bass's lifetime. There is heavy finish checking on the body and neck, and both have darkened considerably and picked up a lot of patina.















As the photos show, this bass is not a museum piece. I believe the finish is not original, due to the texture and the checking pattern. It's hard to say for sure, though. The dings that go through to the ash body have the same patina as the neck, so I suspect it was played hard and maybe dropped a few times shortly after the finish was applied. There is a finish repair on the headstock that seems more recent, and is just about where somebody would have drilled to attempt a five-string conversion. The headstock wasn't drilled through, so that one will remain a mystery. The strap button on the upper horn is a modern replacement, and it looks like somebody had moved that strap button to the center line of the neck pocket at some point. All in all, it's not the kind of "relic" you can get from a factory!

The real NBD for this was Friday afternoon, but the weekend has been hectic and I've barely had time to play it yet. Comparing this to my '80 L-1000, I would say the MusicMan has a better neck profile for my hands (very similar to a mid-'80s 1 5/8" G&L bass neck, and unlike the wide neck on the early L-1000s) but the L-1000 has a more comfortable body. I won't even try to compare the tone - suffice to say that each of those basses does an exceptional job at what it was designed to do. It will take me a while to figure the 'Ray's controls out, but my first impression running through a '63 B-15 is that it has an incredible array of tones on tap. I don't think it's going to get into the territory of an L-1K's treble cut ("OMG") switch though. I will say that like most early G&Ls, it clearly was not intended to be set with the knobs maxed and left wide open. Like its descendents in the G&L product line, the 'Ray's controls are very interactive and at first glance seems like it will reward some careful exploration.

I ended up trading my '80 F-100 to the store. It was a wonderful guitar and a very early (Oct '80) example of the model, but it just wasn't getting much playing time. My first thought when I was deciding whether to buy the 'Ray was to sell or trade my '98 ASAT Classic, but I discovered that the shop also had a mid-'90s ASAT Classic Custom on the wall and ended up trading my '98 for that one. I thought both of those guitars were keepers, but so far I've felt no remorse about the trades.

Ken

Edited once to correct sloppy typing.

[Elwood]

Dude !
that's killer !!

The trades seem like sound decisions .
Wondering if Fred's finish job is under there. It'll be interesting to see the overspray etc in the neck pocket
and cavities. "Another one bites the Dust" was made with an old MM (new then). I bet you can nail
that fat tone , 'specially with the B-15.

[yowhatsshakin]

Congrats Ken! This one is more up your alley than the F-100 I have to admit. Great looking oldie but a goodie. You think the G-string tuning machine has been moved with the original hole filled? I just cannot figure out the spacing. Seems that hole is a little close to the D-string tuner. And is the board stained too?

- Jos

[Fumble fingers]

that's a pretty cool leo era Bass for sure !!...... it would be nice to hear what Fred has to says about the finish

[KenC]

Dude !
that's killer !!

The trades seem like sound decisions .
Wondering if Fred's finish job is under there. It'll be interesting to see the overspray etc in the neck pocket
and cavities. "Another one bites the Dust" was made with an old MM (new then). I bet you can nail
that fat tone , 'specially with the B-15.

Thanks! I will get into the cavities and neck pocket eventually, but that usually happens with the first string change and I'm not 100% ready for that yet. The bass came with a set of very decent-sounding rounds, and I need to figure out what they are first. The silk at the headstock is red with a slight tinge of orange; I can see whether there's silk at the ball ends. The gauge is a bit light, but if there's a heavier version available I might try them. Otherwise, I'll order some Pyramid Golds and check the cavities when they come in.

I'd love to hear Fred's thoughts on the finish. As I look more closely at the dings through the finish, I think this gold topcoat may have been shot over a natural finish (there's a grey primer coat in between).

I read your post about 15 minutes ago, and have been working very hard to get Another One Bites the Dust out of my head. It's a great song, but I really don't want to wake up humming it at 2am . I think I may go try to figure out the bass line to Joe Tex's classic "Ain't Gonna Bump No More (With No Big Fat Woman)".

Ken

[KenC]

Congrats Ken! This one is more up your alley than the F-100 I have to admit. Great looking oldie but a goodie. You think the G-string tuning machine has been moved with the original hole filled? I just cannot figure out the spacing. Seems that hole is a little close to the D-string tuner. And is the board stained too?

- Jos

Thanks Jos! The G tuner definitely wasn't moved. There are no scars on the back of the headstock. I looked more closely at the round mark on the headstock, and it appears to be some sort of adhesive. I don't know what would have been stuck there - maybe a pick holder or a tuner? The spot is perfectly round and raised slightly above the surrounding finish. It has a rubbery feel, and I think I was able to scratch a bit off the edge.

My first impression in the shop was that the neck had been refinished, but the owner (who handles an amazing number of vintage instruments) was sure that it's the original finish. I'm inclined to agree with him. The back of the neck is down to bare maple (see the last photo - that rough looking area is perfectly smooth to the touch). The back of the neck from the headstock to around the fifth fret is shiny and a bit tacky, but it reminds me of some very early G&L basses I've played. There's a bit of sticky gloss right where the neck meets the fingerboard up past the fifth fret, but it blends into the worn finish on the back of the neck. It's a gradually progression from finish to bare wood, with no abrupt changes that I can see or feel.

The dark outline around the headstock had me puzzled, but I think it's natural staining of the finish. There are quite a few dings through the finish on the edges, which show clean maple underneath. They seem a lot newer than the big dings on the body.

The board seems to be the same lacquer that's on the rest of the neck. It has just darkened to a warm amber. In person, it comes close to the appearance of the roasted maple necks that I've seen.

Ken

[KenC]

that's a pretty cool leo era Bass for sure !!...... it would be nice to hear what Fred has to says about the finish

Thanks! I do hope that Fred will see this thread and comment!

Ken

[Case24]

Congratulations Ken! That is quite a score. I like how you said no factory can age an instrument like that!

Greg.

[darwinohm]

Ken, congrats. I'll bet that one has a history. MM makes a nice bass. I still like to use the Pink Lady. It is always along for backup. Hope that you get everything sorted out. -- Darwin

[KenC]

Thanks guys! I carefully scratched at the round mark on the headstock last night, and it turned out to be a round piece of cellophane tape that peeled right off. I have no idea what it could have been for, unless the previous owner thought about modding the bass to a 5-er and put that on as mark for drilling. When it came off it lifted quite a bit of surface residue from the finish, so now there is a light spot there. Seeing how it contrasts with the darker area around it, I'm sure now that the neck was not refinished.

Ken

[fianoman]

That thing has been rode hard and put up wet!

Nice find Ken!

[Boogie Bill]

That's a beautiful bass. I've always liked Leo's Music Man guitars and basses--I still have my two Sabre IIs.

Just FYI, a good example of Sting Ray tones can be found on Chuck Mangione's "Feels So Good" album, a classic jazz album. That's Charles Meeks on the bass, using a Sting Ray. I saw them in concert in Seattle shortly after the album came out....Meeks did a fantastic solo on one of the songs. Grant Geissman is still one of my favorite jazz guitarists. He used a mid '60s Sunburst Gibson L-5 with the sharp Florentine cutaway, and an Ovation acoustic. I think his amp was a Music Man 212 HD130. It was a great show.

Enjoy!

Bill

[KenC]

Thanks for the tip Bill! I'll check that album out tonight.

Ken

[Fred Finisher]

Hello Ken etc.,
This is a classic example of a well played bass. This bass was made the year before I started at CLF. I was probably around the block at CBS when it was made. The finish is either original or it was refinished when it was very young. The cracks look like polyester check cracks. This was around the time ( the only time ) that polyester was being used at CLF. There is something going on with the body neck pocket that would not have been original though. I would like to see the overspray pattern in there when you get around to doing a thorough cleaning. The neck also seems to be original except for the strange border around the head stock. Hopefully, the frets are in good shape because those were not pressed in. Back then, the frets were pulled into the slots from the side so removing them for a refret requires special care so that you don't shred the fingerboard. There is a good chance that the neck will come out several shades lighter after a good buffing. It looks like that bass has a bad case of second hand smoke discoloration.
Please post pictures of the progress.
By the way, Louis Johnson of The Brothers Johnson helped put that bass on the map. He was known as Thunder Thumbs and when he would come into the shop, they would plug him in in final assembly and you could hear him all through the departments.
Fred

[fianoman]

Are you guys "diggin'" through my old vinyl??

I have always thought the guitar solo on 'feels so good' is one of the most well crafted clean solos ever. Great album when it came out and still think it is a great album along with his Bellavia number. Inspired.

And Thunder Thumbs - I'll have to pull the old vinyl out for a spin - Strawberry Letter maybe? Picking through some cobwebs now.

Good stuff!

[KenC]

I have a set of Pyramid Gold flats on the way from Strings and Beyond. They should be here in time for a weekend string change and neck pocket photos.

Ken

[KenC]

Well, the Pyramid Golds arrived and I attempted a string change today. Unfortunately, the Pyramids are about 1/2" too short for this bass and the silk sits in the nut slots. On the bright side, I have wanted to string another one of my basses with Pyramids for a while now, so I I can make that happen.

Meanwhile, the hunt for the perfect set of flats for this bass continues. I've been through most of the major brands on my other basses, and none of the sets I love with neck-position MFDs will be just right for the MM. I'm thinking that finally trying a set of TI Jazz Flats may be inevitable, but everything I've heard about them suggests that I'll find them too soft for my playing style. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

I would like to see the overspray pattern in there when you get around to doing a thorough cleaning.

I did have a sunny afternoon for photos, so here they are:







The last of those three photos shows where the strap button had been moved to behind the neck by a previous owner.

Here are a few more showing details of the checking and dings that went through to primer or bare wood:









Here are a couple of the neck:







Here's a close-up of the bridge, sans strings. It's interesting to me how the entire design was scrapped when they designed the L-1000:



Ken

[yowhatsshakin]

Ken,

That is a beauty, checking or not! Nice pics. These 4 posts in front of the saddles had felt dampers or something? (I seem to recall you mentioned something like this but I'm not entirely sure).

- Jos

[KenC]

Yes, they would originally have had foam string mutes. You could turn the knobs in front of them to adjust the height/amount of contact with the strings. That's one idea that didn't carry over to the G&L days.

Ken

[Fred Finisher]

KenC,
Here is my opinion. Based on the neck pocket, the primer and the orange peel, I believe you have a body that was painted over. It appears that the original finish was probably natural and an early owner painted over it. Although the front looks like a decent job in the pictures, the back close ups show too much orange peel to have been acceptable for production. The neck pocket also has been scraped but it is still possible to see that the primer and finish were applied where the handle would have covered the pocket. This is typical of someone painting the body with another means of holding it while spraying it. The primer also appears to be gray not silver which is typical of car paint, not what was used at CLF. This would also lead me to believe that the headstock modification was done at the same time to tie the finish together without painting over the sticker.
The neck finish looks original except for the trim color around the head stock. I would try to clean and buff the finish to see if it clarifies the clear coat. You should also be able to remove the trim paint if you are careful. Be very careful around the sticker because there is only a few coats of lacquer over it. The pre amp should be dipped in black insulation unlike the later models that were left with the PC boards exposed. The magnets on the pickup might also be extra long. the original basses had very long magnets that were changed to shorter lengths eventually.
I hope this helps,
Fred

[KenC]

Fred,

Thank you for all of the information on this. I'm going to keep everything the way it is. I figure that if the headstock outline has survived 37 years or so of hard playing, I should let it remain...all part of the charm of older instruments...

Ken

[Fred Finisher]

KenC,
I have to agree. Leave it alone after a thorough cleaning and play the heck out of it. The sad truth is that some of the finest instruments ever made are never heard because of the possibility of damage etc. That bass was made to crank out some funk!