Lunch Report, Friday April 2 2010

[darwinohm]

Friday it is! Our weather here has been perfect, about 80 the last two days. You Easterners have had a bad year for weather.

Lunch today will be my Friday afternoon date with Ginny. We will go to Jakes, a local sports watering hole and have some appetizers. and a brew or two. Ginny has something different most weeks but I am a creature of habit and usually have Jakes Wings. They have won a Best Award in the Twin Cities. Now, if I had more than two brews I may try to talk smart and get in trouble. But, you never know. Haven't figured out if I am a risk taker or not too smart.

Before we get into more G&L tech talk, here is a pic. of my final three G&Ls.




On the left is a Mahogany Blues Boy Special Build, then a Legacy with a GOT neck, and a Tribute ASAT Special in Candy Apple Red.

Would anyone be offended if I put a "F" Bigsby on the Mahogany Blues Boy? I think that Leo probably would have approved. I am thinking of doing that.


More G&L wants that we can kick around.

The Zero fret was mentioned yesterday. I have had 2 guitars with this and I like it. What is surprising is that Gretsch has it on some models and not on others. I would think that it would save on the nut and may transfer vibrations even better to the neck. The Brian May I owned also had a Zero Fret. It was mentioned yesterday that the Zero fret is the first fret to wear out. What do you think?

I like the LSR nut. It is only used on a 9.5 radius at this point but I have several and I like them. It is an improvement over the early Wilkerson. I believe that they help tuning stability. And with the LSR nut you do not need string trees . What do you think about the LSR?

Locking Tuners. They are standard on some G&Ls. I have them on each of my G&Ls except for the Tribby. I believe that they also add to tuning stability and certainly make it easier to change strings unless you use a power winder. What are you opinions of locking tuners?

Something I have wondered about: What is the most popular color for Guitars? I have the highest percentage in Reds or shades of transparent Reds but I don't have a clue what is the most popular. Anyone out there know? How about it Craig? G&L must know for their planning.

Does G&L use active electronics in any of their 6 Strings? I don't know. I do know that they use them in many of the Basses. What are your opinions of these?


I haven't talked about acoustics this week but we have a couple that I like and use for recording.




On the left is an Adamas U681T, a Carbon Fiber top, and then an Ovation 6673 Artist LX nylon string. It has a Bearclaw Spruce top.


The State Of Minnesota is known for 10,000 Lakes, cold weather and also the Kensington Rune Stone.




This is a replica made from a mold of the real 202 LB. stone. My Grandfather, Olof Ohman found this artifact on his farm in 1898. He was accused of forging this stone and 110 years later, it has been proven authentic. We, in the family, never had a doubt and knew that he didn't carve it. It has been a high priority in my life the last few years. The KRS has been featured in the film "Holy Grail In America" that has been showing for the last 6 months on the History Channel. If you get to Minnesota, the Rune Stone can be viewed at the Runestone Museum in Alexandria MN.

So, thank you, Jazzrat, for nominating me to this Second Highest Honor as a Lunch Reporter this week, and I thank all of you for hanging in there and putting up with me, and for the comments that you have made to make this a fun week for me as a first time LR. Hope we all had fun. I want to thank Craig for helping me with some system things I needed to learn. He is great! Have a happy Easter. Looking forward to next week Bassman.---- Darwin

[shawn500]

That rune stone is cool! Great story as well.

The zero fret is actually a lobor saving device. It regulates the action at the nut, so you don't have to be as careful in regards to slot depth. The only disadvantage is that the zero fret tends to wear quicker, especially if you have a trem on your guitar.

Most popular color for guitar?.

I see an awful lot of red and sunburst. White seems to be pretty popular.
Not a lot of blue and green (which I happen to like)


As far as acoustics go, I have 3.

A 1978 Aria Pro PWII. It's a Japanese Martin copy. My friend has the exact Martin model, and they are pretty much identical. Solid spruce top and brazillian rosewood back and sides. It's been on many a recording done at my friends studio. Sounds killer!

A 2007 Gretsch Sychromatic. Spruce top, mahogany back and sides. It was a cheapy that plays and sounds great. My knockaround guitar.


An 80's Yamaha classical. It's my other knockaround guitar. I play this one when I'm hanging outside.







Great job this weekd Darwin!
Hope the wifey is doing well.

[John_L]

Lots here, Zero frets are okay they seem to have fallen out of favour but they can work.
I don't like locking tuners at all. Here is why. I own a 97 Godin LG now the fourth string on the Godin is a long way from the bridge some string brands are too short to get more than a half turn on that forth string. The rest of the strings I have at least four full turns. I could hear that the fourth string is dead sounding and had no crispness. I switched to DR strings which make a string long enough to get five good turns on the fourth string peg and the deadness of the fourth string is gone. Now with locking tuners you don't have any real turns because the strings are pulled tight then pulled to tension. The more of the string there is in contact with the guitar the better. The more winds the more stable the tuning. I hate to say it but locking tuners are basically there for player laziness.
When it comes to nuts I go with tusq every time.
Colour wise I tend to go for black or natural. My nocaster is a natural blond to show off the one piece body. My Bass is a nice reddish see through colour.
G&L offer EMG's on the F 100. I like active pickups they are quiet but have a lot of tone used well they can enrich the tone of the guitar. One myth is that active pick ups are only for metal, but actually the EMG 85 was developed for Larry Carlton. Lindsey Buckingham has used active pickup guitars for years as have many players who you might not suspect. Tuck Andress (who IMHO is perhaps the best guitarist in the world today) uses a Bartolini pickup.

What does the stone say?

[RickT]

I had an ASAT Classic that I converted to a Bluesboy with a Bigsby. I used the authentic one from Bigsby even though it cost a few dollars more. Here's the post from the customizations and mod section:

Here's an ASAT Classic that I had modded. It's a Fralin '57 Humbucker in the neck and a Seymour Duncan Jerry Donohue Special in the bridge. I also had the Bigsby added along with the tune-o-matic bridge.

Because the non-factory equipped Bigsby rides on top of the guitar body instead of being recessed, it will cause some sponginess in the feel of the guitar. I was going to put some heavier gauge strings on the guitar to see if that reduced the sponginess but sold the guitar before I got around to that.

I've got a Mahogany Legacy HB that is just beautiful.


RickT

[bassman]

Zero Frets-

My Gretsch has one and I think they are not used more because they were often used in building cheaper guitars because you could make the fingerboards separate from the rest of the guitar and attach later. Becaseu of that association they imply cheapness although I think the idea has a lot of merit.
I don't see how the zero fret wears out faster although I guess it does wear out. It is only being worn when you tune the instrument, so I think the fret would last a very long time.

The only Bigsby that I had was on my Gretsch guitar when I bought it but I took it off because it was branded Guild and I sold it and the roller bridge back in the 70's. I should've kept it.
Acoustics - I have a Guild D-25C that is one of the older Rhode Island Guilds and it is mahogany with red stained spruce top.

I also have a Sigma D-18 copy and an Alvarez D-18 copy.

I don't have any pictures availble.

Nice story about the Kensington Rhune stone. Its probably legit. How many farmers had the time or energy to make up something like that in the 19th century?

-bassman

[MrRoundel]

Great week Darwinohm:

I say, go for the Bixby. I you like the way they function, and fee that it will add to your guitar-playing experience, do it. Since the Bluesboy is still in production, it can always be replaced if it doesn't work out and you decide to sell it.

My '92 S-500 is the only guitar I have with locking Sperzel (I like the looks better than Schallers) tuners. I suppose if I was playing live somewhere, and needed a quick change, I'd be glad to have them. I don't yet indulge in much public playing. Otherwise, I'm partial to the non-locking Sperzels.

SS frets sound like a great idea for time between refrets, but what does it do to your strings? It would seem that the harder material might actually wear out your strings a bit faster, at least for you heavy Leo Benders out there.

Does your blood relation to the discoverer of the Minnesota Runestone make you a "Runestone Cowboy"? Just curious.

[shawn500]

I don't see how the zero fret wears out faster although I guess it does wear out. It is only being worn when you tune the instrument, so I think the fret would last a very long time.

-bassman

Bassman...when you use the Bigsby it saws into the fret a bit. It's not major, but I do notice more wear and tear on the zero fret.

[shawn500]

Does your blood relation to the discoverer of the Minnesota Runestone make you a "Runestone Cowboy"? Just curious.

OUCH!

[darwinohm]

Shawn Writes:

"As far as acoustics go, I have 3.

A 1978 Aria Pro PWII. It's a Japanese Martin copy. My friend has the exact Martin model, and they are pretty much identical. Solid spruce top and brazillian rosewood back and sides. It's been on many a recording done at my friends studio. Sounds killer!

A 2007 Gretsch Sychromatic. Spruce top, mahogany back and sides. It was a cheapy that plays and sounds great. My knockaround guitar.


An 80's Yamaha classical. It's my other knockaround guitar. I play this one when I'm hanging outside."

Shawn, you have a lot of guitars and will be into case and guitar management before long. It is a good idea to have some that you can really use. I do not have any that I can knockaround with. Probably a shame but I know it would be different if I used them for a living. I do not have room for any extras now.


Hope the wifey is doing well.

She is doing very well and will be driving in about 4 weeks. Thanks for asking and thanks for your input. ----Darwin.

[darwinohm]

John L writes:
"Lots here, Zero frets are okay they seem to have fallen out of favour but they can work.
I don't like locking tuners at all."

John, interesting observations here. I'm am thinking through the concept that you have proposed. You may have a point on the locking tuners. I am curious if others have experienced this. Thanks John.------and


What does the stone say?

I will get to you later in a private post as it will be fairly lengthy. Thanks again for the input.

[darwinohm]

Rick writes:
"I had an ASAT Classic that I converted to a Bluesboy with a Bigsby. I used the authentic one from Bigsby even though it cost a few dollars more. Here's the post from the customizations and mod section:

Because the non-factory equipped Bigsby rides on top of the guitar body instead of being recessed, it will cause some sponginess in the feel of the guitar. I was going to put some heavier gauge strings on the guitar to see if that reduced the sponginess but sold the guitar before I got around to that.

I've got a Mahogany Legacy HB that is just beautiful."

Rick, is that ever a beauty!

Nice conversion on the Asat. Did the tune-o-matic work okay for you and did you have to trim the bottom of the guard for the bridgeplate?

As far as the Bigsby, the one that you used is very similar to the F type but is a bit shorter and allows you to mount it further from the bridge, thus reducing the string/bridge angle. The Fender Tele is very similar in dimensions to the Bluesboy and they do not recess the Bigsby. I will do some serious measuring before converting and I believe that the sponginess may have to do with bridge as much as the strings. I do use 10s with a Bigsby. That is a project that I will document, take pictures and post here if it happens.
My Z3 has the tune-o-matic and if I lift up the trem, it doesn't always return tune. I experimented with a Schaller Roller and it was better but still not perfect. I am going to make cup adapters and use a Jassmaster type. I know that will work but this is not a big issue to me as I never pull up on the handle anyway. On a push it always return correctly. Great input Rick, thanks------Darwin

[jazzrat]

The Zero fret was mentioned yesterday. I have had 2 guitars with this and I like it. What is surprising is that Gretsch has it on some models and not on others. I would think that it would save on the nut and may transfer vibrations even better to the neck. The Brian May I owned also had a Zero Fret. It was mentioned yesterday that the Zero fret is the first fret to wear out. What do you think?

I like the LSR nut. It is only used on a 9.5 radius at this point but I have several and I like them. It is an improvement over the early Wilkerson. I believe that they help tuning stability. And with the LSR nut you do not need string trees . What do you think about the LSR?

Locking Tuners. They are standard on some G&Ls. I have them on each of my G&Ls except for the Tribby. I believe that they also add to tuning stability and certainly make it easier to change strings unless you use a power winder. What are you opinions of locking tuners?

Something I have wondered about: What is the most popular color for Guitars? I have the highest percentage in Reds or shades of transparent Reds but I don't have a clue what is the most popular. Anyone out there know? How about it Craig? G&L must know for their planning.

Does G&L use active electronics in any of their 6 Strings? I don't know. I do know that they use them in many of the Basses. What are your opinions of these?

I haven't talked about acoustics this week but we have a couple that I like and use for recording.

I had a roller nut (I think a Wilkie) on a Strat Ultra. The guitar stayed in tune nicely though I never did get the darn thing to play worth a hoot.

Colors....I'm guessing plain 'ol sunburst is still the most popular. I've had a bunch of red guitars but I'm like Shawn...I really like greens and blues not so much
pure blue but leaning toward teal, like G & L's emerald blue. Love that color.

I have had active electronics in guitars going back to a Gibson RD Artist Custom with Moog electronics in the late 70's. More recently I had a couple sets in some
Carvin guitars. I'm sure they are not all the same but I'm generally not a fan. Maybe just my ears but I always seem to hear a high end "sizzle" in the treble that is not musical. Plus I like to keep it simple...no batteries. That being said I do have a Parker Fly that I love but it's not actually active electronics but rather just has a preamp for the piezo.
What I did like about the Carvin system was that it had a push/pull switch to go to passive. Great if the battery died or for a little different tone. Here's the Tl60 I had it in. With active mags that would split, as well as in phase/out of phase and the piezo, you could get about any tone you wanted.
So much for keeping it simple though.

Acoustics....not so much. I have a Takemine classical that I have had for years. Nice guitar. I just generally prefer to play electric though I sure can appreciate
a nice acoustic. I really like Seagull guitars for the money and would probably go that route if I bought one.....or a guild...I'm a fan from way back.

[darwinohm]

Bassman writes:

"My Gretsch has one and I think they are not used more because they were often used in building cheaper guitars because you could make the fingerboards separate from the rest of the guitar and attach later.
Nice story about the Kensington Rhune stone. Its probably legit. How many farmers had the time or energy to make up something like that in the 19th century?"

Bassman, that is an interesting thought to save money. I do like the Zero fret because I think it should improve tone transfer to the neck in theory. Theory sometimes doesn,t work.

As for the Runestone you make a perfect point. My grandfather was a poor farmer in 1898 and had a large family to support, eventually 9 kids. The new evidence to support it as an authentic artifact is overwhelming but that it a whole story in itself. It was carved in 1362. Thanks for your input. -- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

Mr Rounded writes:

"Does your blood relation to the discoverer of the Minnesota Runestone make you a "Runestone Cowboy"?"

Thank you for the idea Mr Rounded. I am going to put that on my resume and the next resumes that are handed out will be at my retirement party when I fully retire. We will have a cold one on that! Thank you for the other input today and I loved you input on Wednesday. Thanks again.---Darwin.

[darwinohm]

Jazzrat writes:

" Have had active electronics in guitars going back to a Gibson RD Artist Custom with Moog electronics in the late 70's. Plus I like to keep it simple...no batteries. That being said I do have a Parker Fly that I love but it's not actually active electronics but rather just has a preamp for the piezo.
really like Seagull guitars for the money and would probably go that route if I bought one.....or a guild...I'm a fan from way back."

First of all Jazzrat , thanks for the opportunity this week. I am still intrigued by a Parker and both my Piezos have active electronics for the Piezo only. As for the Seagull, that was my Daughters first and she still has it. They are an excellent bang for the buck. Thanks again.---Darwin

[MrRoundel]

Mr Rounded

I'm glad you enjoyed my small contributions. As you may have surmised, I do have a rather sick sense of humor.

FYI: My moniker here on G&LDP is actually MrRoundel. A "Roundel" is the badge for BMW automobiles and motorcycles, like my avatar dude is holding. I use the name because my initials are BMW.

Again, great job this week.

[Boogie Bill]

Haven't been able to participate much; it's tax season and we're really busy.

I love the look of the ASAt, but I would pass on the double-roller Bigsby. They are a pain in ass to re-string. Ask Emmitt O. I had one on my c.'69 Tele Thinline and swore I'd never own another one. Next time, order your ASAT with a DF Vibrato. And adding a Bigsby to a tele can involve some routing. It's not an easy thing. Me, I'd leave it be.

I'm not a big fan of LSR nuts or zero frets. Just give me a well cut bone or graphite nut and I'm good to go. I do like locking tuners, though I don't find them to be any more stable than properly strung non locking tuners. They are easier to string than split-post tuners, but done right, a split post is very stable.

I would say sunburst, black and red are the most popular colors, though I have no statistics. I don't care for natural finished electrics, but acoustics are fine. I tend to like warm colors, but I have four blue guitars, a couple in Bel Air Green and my two Takamine 12-strings in black. I was definitely a SB guy before I met Miss Leslie, but she has expanded my color palette.

I have two Music Man Sabre II electrics with Leo's preamp. I really like it, wondered why it didn't catch on. Very low noise if any, and buffered, so I can drive 45 efx boxes and 100ft of cable. Great flexibility and incredible tones.

I have a bunch of acoustics:

1975 Martin D-28
1996 Martin MTV-1
2002 Martin D-28
2003 Martin D-35
2004 Martin D-18
2008 Martin DC Aura
1999 Ibanez Artwood AW50CENT
Two Takamine EF381SC 12-strings

They are really all great guitars. I'm very fortunate to have such a nice collection.

Good week; sorry I haven't been able to participate.

Bill

[Sprinter 92]

I've spent some time in Alexandria, Minnesota and seen the KRS several times! Fishing in the Alexandria area is great. Alexandria, has a couple of nice music stores and one is a G&L dealer. Hopefully, I'll be in Alexandria for a week of fishing in June.

Sprinter 92

[darwinohm]

Haven't been able to participate much; it's tax season and we're really busy.

I love the look of the ASAt, but I would pass on the double-roller Bigsby. They are a pain in ass to re-string. Ask Emmitt O. I had one on my c.'69 Tele Thinline and swore I'd never own another one. Next time, order your ASAT with a DF Vibrato. And adding a Bigsby to a tele can involve some routing. It's not an easy thing. Me, I'd leave it be.

I'm not a big fan of LSR nuts or zero frets. Just give me a well cut bone or graphite nut and I'm good to go. I do like locking tuners, though I don't find them to be any more stable than properly strung non locking tuners. They are easier to string than split-post tuners, but done right, a split post is very stable.

I would say sunburst, black and red are the most popular colors, though I have no statistics. I don't care for natural finished electrics, but acoustics are fine. I tend to like warm colors, but I have four blue guitars, a couple in Bel Air Green and my two Takamine 12-strings in black. I was definitely a SB guy before I met Miss Leslie, but she has expanded my color palette.

I have two Music Man Sabre II electrics with Leo's preamp. I really like it, wondered why it didn't catch on. Very low noise if any, and buffered, so I can drive 45 efx boxes and 100ft of cable. Great flexibility and incredible tones.

I have a bunch of acoustics:

1975 Martin D-28
1996 Martin MTV-1
2002 Martin D-28
2003 Martin D-35
2004 Martin D-18
2008 Martin DC Aura
1999 Ibanez Artwood AW50CENT
Two Takamine EF381SC 12-strings

They are really all great guitars. I'm very fortunate to have such a nice collection.

Good week; sorry I haven't been able to participate.

Bill

Thanks for your post Bill, I will answer in more detail after I take some pics and that will probably be Sunday evening as I am the Lone Ranger in preparing for our family for Easter. Indeed , that is one fine collection that you have!! Later--- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

I've spent some time in Alexandria, Minnesota and seen the KRS several times! Fishing in the Alexandria area is great. Alexandria, has a couple of nice music stores and one is a G&L dealer. Hopefully, I'll be in Alexandria for a week of fishing in June.

Sprinter 92

Hey Sprinter, thanks for your post and I am delighted that you have seen the KRS in Alexandria. I will look for the G&L dealer in Alex. I'm not sure who it is. I usually stop at Carlson Music if I have time and he has a beautiful stock of Taylors. Thanks for tour post. --- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

Mr Rounded

I'm glad you enjoyed my small contributions. As you may have surmised, I do have a rather sick sense of humor.

FYI: My moniker here on G&LDP is actually MrRoundel. A "Roundel" is the badge for BMW automobiles and motorcycles, like my avatar dude is holding. I use the name because my initials are BMW.

Again, great job this week.

MrRounded, sometimes it takes a while for me to get it right!. Craig could attest to that earlier this week. Now it all makes sense and yes, I do appreciate your humor. Have a fine day and weekend. --- Darwin.

[bassman]

[quote="shawn500
Bassman...when you use the Bigsby it saws into the fret a bit. It's not major, but I do notice more wear and tear on the zero fret.[/quote]

I can see your point with the Bigsby trem. wearing out the zero fret, but have you ever had to replace one?
The strings are always in full contact with the zero fret and it is more of a fulcrum than a nut. No accounting for nut material because the fret is the end point. I haven't had enough experience with one for it to wear out but it is possible.

[shawn500]

I can see your point with the Bigsby trem. wearing out the zero fret, but have you ever had to replace one?
The strings are always in full contact with the zero fret and it is more of a fulcrum than a nut. No accounting for nut material because the fret is the end point. I haven't had enough experience with one for it to wear out but it is possible.

Hey Bassman....not yet. I probably will need a refret this year though.
I have filed a fre rough spots on the zero fret where it was starting to wear, but it's still in pretty good shape.

[MrRoundel]

MrRounded, sometimes it takes a while for me to get it right!.

No problem, darwinmhos.

[darwinohm]

Haven't been able to participate much; it's tax season and we're really busy.

I love the look of the ASAt, but I would pass on the double-roller Bigsby. They are a pain in ass to re-string. Ask Emmitt O. I had one on my c.'69 Tele Thinline and swore I'd never own another one. Next time, order your ASAT with a DF Vibrato. And adding a Bigsby to a tele can involve some routing. It's not an easy thing. Me, I'd leave it be.

Bill

Bill, this is a busy season for tax people. I wanted to get back with some more complete information on the Bigsbys. First of all I already have the Blues Boy and I do like the DF but I like the control of a Bigsby better. Here is a picture that will clarify some things about Bigsbys on T type guitars.



The Z3 on the left has a B5 Bigsby and is routed and uses a Tune-O-Matic bridge. The Fender on the right uses a F Bigsby and does not use routing. Fender uses the F Type and Jazzmaster/Jaguar type bridges on their Teles including the Custom Shop versions. I can assure you that you will not have tuning stability problems with this configuration if set up properly. Many people have had the B5 and a TOM bridge installed on their Teles only to have tuning stability problems and ultimately disappointed. The pictures will show the difference between the Two Bigsbys. Both Bigsbys are the same height. The F Bigsby is longer and puts the rollers closer to the bridge. Also the Jazzmaster bridge pivots on two sharp points and alows the strings to return based on true tension and not tension with binding from the bridge induced. I would not put a B5 on a T type body and would put the F type on the Blues Boy with the Jazzmaster bridge. I know that they work well. It is rare to hear of someone complaining about the tuning issues on Gretsches and archtop Gibsons. They use a B6 or B7. I am not trying to convince anyone to use a Bigsby, but am only trying to explain why people have problems with them. Stringing issues are something else. It takes experience and patience. This is probably more information than most care to have, but if anyone is having problems I will answer questions by e-mail. Hope everyone had a happy Easter!--- Darwin

[darwinohm]

What does the stone say?

John, I have been trying to send you a private message but it will not go through. Why don't you Google the Kensington Rune Stone as there is a lot of information. It is a lengthy inscription about and expedition to America in 1362. I had posted a lot of information in the PM. You can also Google my name and you will find some things.Thanks--- Darwin