Lunch Report, Tuesday March 30 2010

[darwinohm]

Thank you all for you answers/pics yesterday. Brock asked the question that Ginny has asked me about 39 times already! I am running out of answers on that one. We are on a roll in Minneapolis with the weather this week. It is going to hit 70 today so don't believe anyone who tells you it is cold in Minnesota.

Lunch totally changed from our plan yesterday as I had to make a run to the shop yesterday. Lunch was at Big Louies in Crystal. Monday is hamburger day and I had a Honey Mustard Burger with fries and an Iced Tea. Not sure what today will bring but it may be Corned Beef and Cabbage left over from the weekend. I have been a nurse mom for a week and am improving on the proficiency of my nurse mom duties each day.

The G&L discussion Today will be Bigsbys.
I have always been a fan of Bigsbys and for years my idea of the perfect guitar was a T type with a Bigsby. Fender Ts with Bigsbys were only available as a Made in Japan or a custom shop model. Neither appealed to me. I purchased a Fender American Deluxe Aged Cherry Burst new and this was going to be my first Bigsby project. Everyone told me I was nuts but I did a lot of measuring for the layout and started the drilling process. I used the F type Bigsby and the Fender Jazzmaster type bridge. This was a beautiful rig and I took it to the GC just after it was finished to try an amp. A local Pro Musician looked at it, played it and wanted to buy it on the spot. Now, this thing was not for sale but it got me thinking. There is a demand out there. This is where G&L enters the picture. GC had a pristine Asat Z3 in Transparent Red on the wall and this was instant love. The tele is now gone. I sold it to the Pro who wanted it and I did another Tele for a bandmate of his. So this is a picture of my Bigsby rigs.



Starting from the right side is my Z3 and she is a great guitar. Next in is my 59 6121 Nashville Gretsch reissue. Then a 58 6122 Country Classic Gretsch reissue and on the left a 52 Tele reissue with a Bigsby that I have added. I am not ready to part with any of these but the Tele could go in the future.

So the questions for today,
What do you like or dislike about a Bigsby? I know about the string changing issues and that has been a post in the past but I am thinking about controlling the dives, looks or whatever you think or have experienced.

What are your opinions on the bridges to use on a T type as this is critical for them to work right? I have used Tune O Matics, Schaller Roller and others and will answer questions if you have any on my experiences. Secondly the follow up on this question it what Bigsby would you use or have used as there are many different types?

Gretsch has had this figured out for years but it is not that simple on ASAT or T types.

Have a great day today folks and looking forward to your responses. Tomorrow will be Lowender Wendesday. Sorry for the misspelling of Monday yesterday. I could not edit it out. ---Darwin

[jazzrat]

Great topic Dar!
I have never owned a guitar with a Bigsby but I think they look great and I've always wanted to try one.
I'm not much of a dive bomber. That pretty, echo'y Chet Atkins kind of wiggle is all I really need.
I've heard that string changes are a pain but it can't be worse than a Floyd Rose can it? Plus I'm an archtop guy so I'm used to bridges shifting and setting
intonation and such.
That pic sure makes me want to get one.

[John_L]

Bigsby's are fun and they are a pain to set up. Tusq or brass nuts can help with tuning issues. The B5 horseshoe type have the effect of adding some mass to the body and can improve the sustain, while the B30 type can add some top end bite. I can't see I'd ever own one but it is amazing how many people you don't think of using a Bigsby do use them. Joey Santiago of The Pixies and The Martinis uses Les Paul's fitted with B30 to get his trademark sound. There is something reassuringly solid about Bigsby's.

[shawn500]

Darwin I love that Country Gent!

I love a Bigsby bridge. They are definately meant for a slight warble, and not dive bombing. I really haven't had all that much trouble restringing my Gretsch. I put a crimp in the string at the ball end, and keep enough pressure on the string that it doesn't fall off the post, and I'm fine. Some folks have drilled those post holes out, and just put the string through the holes. Supposedely it works great. I use a bar bridge on my Gretsch as well. No moving parts, and the sustain from that big hunk of metal is killer. I use a Tru Arc bridge, which is made of aluminum. The stock bridges are brass. The aluminum gives me a much snappier, percussive sound.


I love a Tele with a Bigsby. The roller bridges seem to work well with that setup. The extra mass from the Bigsby really beefs up a Tele.

[jazzrat]

ok...that's it... I gotta get me a Gretsch.
I just dug something out of my foggy memory....used to have one....A Country Gentleman if I think.
I much prefer the fatter single cut ones like the 6120.

[darwinohm]

Jazzrat says:
I have never owned a guitar with a Bigsby but I think they look great and I've always wanted to try one.

A lot have people have never played one. I think the Bigsby has a bad rap because they have to be setup so well, and installed with the correct bridge to work well. I like them because you have a much finer control but they have the least variation range. -- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

John L says:
Bigsby's are fun and they are a pain to set up. Tusq or brass nuts can help with tuning issues. The B5 horseshoe type have the effect of adding some mass to the body and can improve the sustain, while the B30 type can add some top end bite. I can't see I'd ever own one but it is amazing how many people you don't think of using a Bigsby do use them. Joey Santiago of The Pixies and The Martinis uses Les Paul's fitted with B30 to get his trademark sound. There is something reassuringly solid about Bigsby's.

John you are right on. I have never changed the nut on any of them but I always use locking tuners with a Bigsby. I also believe they add sustain to a tele. My ASAT Z3 came with locking tuners.-- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

Shawn says:

I love a Bigsby bridge. They are definately meant for a slight warble, and not dive bombing. I really haven't had all that much trouble restringing my Gretsch.

Shawn, this is true and I like the ability to control the warble so precisely. You folks have covered the restringing trick well on this forum.


I love a Tele with a Bigsby. The roller bridges seem to work well with that setup. The extra mass from the Bigsby really beefs up a Tele.


I have tried the Schaller Roller bridge and it did not work well. The Jazzmaster setup has worked best for me. You can lift the handle , let go and it returns to tune perfectly.

That 6120 you have with the clear guard is a beauty. Is that a Brian Setzer?

[darwinohm]

Jazzrat says:

ok...that's it... I gotta get me a Gretsch.

I much prefer the fatter single cut ones like the 6120.

I have been watching a 2007 Country Club in Cadillac Green locally that is in perfect condition. If it had a Bigsby on it would have been on the wall. It is such a classic. What is the procurement process at your house? I have to get approval from the Pres here before I can pull the trigger!--- Darwin

[jazzrat]

What is the procurement process at your house?

With a pay cut at work and at my wife's school I don't dare bring up the subject right now. Generally, these days I'm self regulating....one out before one comes in.
Problem is, the four I have are perfect examples and I like them all. The only one I might let go is my Eastman archtop. It's a one trick pony(does that one trick really well), but something like a Gretsch might be just jazzy enough but offer more versatility.

[shawn500]

Jazzrat says:

ok...that's it... I gotta get me a Gretsch.

I much prefer the fatter single cut ones like the 6120.

I have been watching a 2007 Country Club in Cadillac Green locally that is in perfect condition. If it had a Bigsby on it would have been on the wall. It is such a classic. What is the procurement process at your house? I have to get approval from the Pres here before I can pull the trigger!--- Darwin

I've been jonseing for a Country Club myself. Definately need a Gretsch with Dynasonics.

[shawn500]

That 6120 you have with the clear guard is a beauty. Is that a Brian Setzer?

Darwin, it's a 2003 6120-60. It's a model that no longer exists. It was replaced by the 6120-1959. The only real difference is that the 1959 hasa 9.5" radius like the Brian Setzer Gretches have. I prefer the 12" radius myself.

I've replaced the tuners, pickups (it now has TV Jones Classics), bridge (TruArc aluminum bar bridge), and the Bigsby handle. It's a sweet playing guitar, and it's suprising light. If the money situation ever lightens up a bit, Ill hopefully be getting a Country Club or Duo Jet. I really want a Gretsch with Dynasonics to complement my 6120 with Filtertrons.

[bassman]

I don't have any Bigsby equipped guitars.

I would love to try one out sometime.

I guess that I have been jaded by the notion that a Bigsby can't really be used for extreme vibrato because it will knock the guitar out of tune.

I am not a big vibrato/ tremelo user when I play guitar anyway, so I have never had the urge to invest in a Bigsby.

Your Bigsby's look very cool on those guitars.

[darwinohm]

Bassman Said:

I guess that I have been jaded by the notion that a Bigsby can't really be used for extreme vibrato because it will knock the guitar out of tune.

Bassman, that is the most common issue. A Bigsby should perform its full range without going out of tune. Arched top guitars have a very low bridge/tailpiece angle. They generally use rocker type bridges that are not secured to the body. They are generally quite stable. The bridge can move and intonation will change. The bridge is held in place by string pressure. On Tele/ASAT type guitars a different Bigsby is used and the bridge/Tailpiece angle becomes much higher creating more tension at the bridge. This is where the type of bridge becomes critical. I, and others have found that the stoptail bridges do not always work well. If you raise the vibrato arm they will not return to tune when you let it go. I experimented with a Schaller Roller bridge and found that because of the pressure on the rollers it did not work well either. It was an improvement but did not solve the problem. By using the Jazzmaster type bridge which is a two point bridge sitting in cone shaped holders, the bridge is free to rock in either direction and they return to tune. So the bottom line is that this is a system that is not very forgiving. I usually have to shim the neck or adjust the neck tilt screw as part of the installation. This was probably more than most people care to know. Thanks for your post Bassman. I will have a report on my new to me L2000 Fretless tomorrow. --- Darwin.

[Brock]

Brock asked the question that Ginny has asked me about 39 times already!

My Aunt asked me "Why some many guitars?" once, so I took down a few and she noticed that I have quite the range of sound available. Not that that there isn't some redundancy (I have too many bass guitars... ...oh wait, can that be done?) but many do something different. Here's most of what I own:

• Martin solidbody bass guitar (all mahogany)
• G&L SB-2 bass guitar (all maple)
• G&L L-5000 (tuned with a high C)
• G&L El Toro fretless
• 30 inch scale Regal "Turd Bass"
• Danelectro Mod 7 (in 4 string configuration)
• Dean Martini (converted to a 4)
• USA Hamer 8 string bass
• Carlo Robelli 8 string bass
• DeArmond Ashbory Bass
• Ashbory Mark II Bass
• Guild Ashbory Bass
• Seagull 12 string acoustic (modified)
• J Reynolds Banjitar (now a 4 string)

I have a few that probably belong in the collector category (the Guild and Mark II Ashbory). The Carlo Robelli was my first 8 string and I guess I could sell it since I have the Hamer, and the SB-2 and Martin are a bit redundant but both are really nice, and there is some sound difference. The two 4 string guitars are reasonably different, but mostly I have both because the Dano came first and the Dean is largely an improvement.

So yeah, the casual listener won't have too hard of a time making out the sound differences in much of the flock. We're not talking "This Strat has a bridge humbucker", but rather "This bass has octave strings, that one has no frets, that one over there has rubber strings, and that one has an extra higher pitch string on it." ...and that's just the bass end. Throw in a banjitar, a 12 string acoustic, and the 4 string electric guitars, and it's quite a range of sound while remaining guitar based.

We all have different approaches to gear, and there's no one right answer. I like to diversify, and I run cheap. The most expensive instrument was the $800 Ashbory Mark II.

I need to take up Sousaphone at some point, and I have a Godin A4 bass in my future I bet, along with a 4 string fretless guitar.

-Brock

[zapcosongs]

Hey darwinohm -
Great of you to step up. Love having you here. I've been lurking mostly of late. The kids are on break, and the wife has an office job plus is a CPA doing taxes, so things have been crazy around here. But I've been reading.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), I have little to add today. Not only have I never tried a bigsby and never have tried to modify a guitar significantly, I really don't use a wiggle stick of any sort. Except for my SC-3, all my bridges are of the fixed variety.

I guess I'm just writing to check in, and to touch on the tele bridge issue that you raise. In your (significant) experience, do you have a preference for the three or six saddle bridge? Also, I find that the sides of the traditional ashtray get in my way. Do these bother you? I know that there are some newer designs that do away with this problem.

Anyway, cheers! Best of everything to you and your fine lady. - ed

PS: Amazing collection, btw!!! I too am now very interested in checking out a Gretch. What's a good entry into that universe? Fixed bridge, of course ;+)

[darwinohm]

Brock wrote:

My Aunt asked me "Why some many guitars?" once, so I took down a few and she noticed that I have quite the range of sound available.

I need to take up Sousaphone at some point, and I have a Godin A4 bass in my future I bet, along with a 4 string fretless guitar.

Brock, you have an impressive list of different basses. On the 8 string are the 2 highest strings tuned to octaves? I have never seen one. I would bet that you are quite a bass player. It was a stretch for me to try fretless. Thanks for you interesting post. --Darwin

[darwinohm]

Zapcosongs writes:"

I guess I'm just writing to check in, and to touch on the tele bridge issue that you raise. In your (significant) experience, do you have a preference for the three or six saddle bridge? Also, I find that the sides of the traditional ashtray get in my way. Do these bother you? I know that there are some newer designs that do away with this problem.

Ed , good to hear from you. I like the saddles and bridge from the American Deluxe Tele series. The intonation is dead on and they are chrome plated brass. That bridge plate also doesn't have sides to get in the way.



btw!!! I too am now very interested in checking out a Gretch. What's a good entry into that universe? Fixed bridge, of course.

The Gretschs have the most unique tone unplugged. Even in the solid bodies and that carries into when they are amplified. Most of the hollow body Gretschs come in either fixed or Bigsby versions. They also have good choices in pickups. I mentioned today that I would like to have a Cadillac Green Country Club or who wouldn't want a White Falcon. If you are near a dealer they may give a Gretsch catalog. It is a piece of art in itself. Thanks for your input today Ed.-- Darwin

[shawn500]

. I mentioned today that I would like to have a Cadillac Green Country Club or who wouldn't want a White Falcon.

Who indeed? I would love a White Falcon. One of the sexiest, flashiest guitars ever!

[Brock]

Brock, you have an impressive list of different basses. On the 8 string are the 2 highest strings tuned to octaves? I have never seen one. I would bet that you are quite a bass player.

1. Bass stash: I like options.

2. The 8 strings are in octave pairs, so the strings are eE aA dD gG with the lower case letters being guitar pitch, and the caps being at bass pitch. Here's my Hamer Chaparral 8:


3. Equipment doesn't equal talent! Equipment can equal options though, which is why mine are scattered from bass guitar to electric guitar to banjitar to Ashbory Bass to the 12 string acoustic. My friend Bob and I were talking about figuring out how to scrap a bass banjitar together. It'd be big but I think it would sound awesome. I also have a Godin A4 in my future I bet. I'll have to try the new midi ones and see if they sound as nice as the old Baggs ones. I'm probably done with G&Ls. I have a fretless, a fretted, and a 5 string, and that's plenty. If I had to have only one bass guitar though, it'd be a mahogany bodied L-1000.