body finish
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tedkirkendall
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 10:56 am
body finish
I've heard Will Ray among others say that the thick poly finish like what's on my ASAT classic and my Legacy affect the tone in a negative way. Has anyone ever removed the finish? How'd you do it? How'd it affect the sound? Thanks a lot.
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suave eddie
- Posts: 787
- Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:12 pm
- Location: B.C.
Re: body finish
You will find as many different opinions on this as there are members on this board. My personal opinion is that the type of finish on a solid body electric guitar affects the tone just as much as the color does.
Read what Ron Kirn has to say about the "quest for tone":
http://www.ronkirn.com/quest.htm
Here is a quote from the above article:
"And yes Poly and/or Nitro will indeed alter the “voice” or resonant acoustic characteristics of an instrument, but I submit, those variances are so slight that in a blind test, with similar guitars, virtually no one would be able to tell."
He has probably built more guitars than the entire membership of this board combined, and I think he speaks a refreshing amount of common sense.
When all is said and done, whatever it is about your guitar that excites you and makes you want to play it is the best factor in your tone quest. If stripping off the thick poly on your guitar will make you want to play and practice more, then there is value in it.
I tend to to follow the immortal words of Frank Zappa: "Shut up 'n play yer guitar". I love my ASAT Classic and the tones I can produce with it (and several people who have heard it seem to agree). For me it would be a complete waste of time and/or money to strip the finish.
Your Mileage May Vary as they say.
Read what Ron Kirn has to say about the "quest for tone":
http://www.ronkirn.com/quest.htm
Here is a quote from the above article:
"And yes Poly and/or Nitro will indeed alter the “voice” or resonant acoustic characteristics of an instrument, but I submit, those variances are so slight that in a blind test, with similar guitars, virtually no one would be able to tell."
He has probably built more guitars than the entire membership of this board combined, and I think he speaks a refreshing amount of common sense.
When all is said and done, whatever it is about your guitar that excites you and makes you want to play it is the best factor in your tone quest. If stripping off the thick poly on your guitar will make you want to play and practice more, then there is value in it.
I tend to to follow the immortal words of Frank Zappa: "Shut up 'n play yer guitar". I love my ASAT Classic and the tones I can produce with it (and several people who have heard it seem to agree). For me it would be a complete waste of time and/or money to strip the finish.
Your Mileage May Vary as they say.
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NickHorne
- Posts: 785
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: England
Re: body finish
As I recall it, Will's perception was that metalflake finish caused a slight brightening of tone, perhaps due to extra mass and / or rigidity.
Will, please correct this if I've remembered you wrongly here!
My perception, for its 2c worth, is that if a guitar is solid, and made of something stiff like most solids are, then the finish will be the tiniest part of the sum that defines the guitar's tone. So tiny that it really won't be the least bit important.
The lighter / less rigid / less solid one makes the wood structure, the more influence the finish could have, although the structure would have to be approaching an actual acoustic instrument before the effect of the finish would become measurable or reliably audible.
My BS detector goes off whenever I hear this nitro / poly thing on solid guitars. It's resting against a substantial, acoustic-damping, closely-coupled mass the whole time, and that's my stomach... and there's my forearm on the top, too...
PLEASE think calmly before tearing the finish off a guitar. The dust is v. bad for you, and the sound will almost certainly remain 99% the same. Some of this "information" runs on the insecurity that the poor play-out / hobby guitar player has been force-fed by marketing folk, they want you to not know where the heck you are, so they can sell you a fix.
The paint is not the problem. On a 330 or a Gretsch I might just possibly hear something, but not a G&L, except in the tiniest degree, they're just not thin / hollow enough.
Will, please correct this if I've remembered you wrongly here!
My perception, for its 2c worth, is that if a guitar is solid, and made of something stiff like most solids are, then the finish will be the tiniest part of the sum that defines the guitar's tone. So tiny that it really won't be the least bit important.
The lighter / less rigid / less solid one makes the wood structure, the more influence the finish could have, although the structure would have to be approaching an actual acoustic instrument before the effect of the finish would become measurable or reliably audible.
My BS detector goes off whenever I hear this nitro / poly thing on solid guitars. It's resting against a substantial, acoustic-damping, closely-coupled mass the whole time, and that's my stomach... and there's my forearm on the top, too...
PLEASE think calmly before tearing the finish off a guitar. The dust is v. bad for you, and the sound will almost certainly remain 99% the same. Some of this "information" runs on the insecurity that the poor play-out / hobby guitar player has been force-fed by marketing folk, they want you to not know where the heck you are, so they can sell you a fix.
The paint is not the problem. On a 330 or a Gretsch I might just possibly hear something, but not a G&L, except in the tiniest degree, they're just not thin / hollow enough.
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KenC
- Posts: 2344
- Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:18 pm
- Location: None of the above
Re: body finish
If there is any effect from the finish (and I'm not suggesting there is!), my guess is that it would stem from friction with the hand. The most obvious example would be tackiness on the back of the neck, but I suppose there could conceivably be some effect on the picking/plucking hand for players who don't firmly anchor that hand on some bit of hardware.
I may have been living under a rock, but the first time I remember really hearing about the tonal benefits of a thin finish was right about the same time that new air quality standards were making finishing operations in the US much more expensive. Fewer coats of finish on US-built instruments meant lower manufacturing costs. Was it coincidence that the marketing writers realized at the exact same time that fewer coats meant better tone? I was doing graduate work in sustainable production and use reduction at the time, so it really jumped out at me. I can't remember seeing the big manufacturers move toward thin finishes on their import lines. It seemed to be limited to US-built instruments. Somebody correct me if I've missed something along the way...
Ken
I may have been living under a rock, but the first time I remember really hearing about the tonal benefits of a thin finish was right about the same time that new air quality standards were making finishing operations in the US much more expensive. Fewer coats of finish on US-built instruments meant lower manufacturing costs. Was it coincidence that the marketing writers realized at the exact same time that fewer coats meant better tone? I was doing graduate work in sustainable production and use reduction at the time, so it really jumped out at me. I can't remember seeing the big manufacturers move toward thin finishes on their import lines. It seemed to be limited to US-built instruments. Somebody correct me if I've missed something along the way...
Ken
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bloodied_fingers
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Seattle
Re: body finish
I don't think the finish has any effect on a solid body electric guitar sound.
Now if you want to do it 'just because' then that is worth it, just please don't do it because some 'tone freak' advised it..
Now if you want to do it 'just because' then that is worth it, just please don't do it because some 'tone freak' advised it..