A question for Bigsby trem users >>> NGD

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:23 pm

When you bend a string on a guitar fitted with a Bigsby does it pull the other strings a little flat like on other trems?

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:22 pm

I haven't noticed that Jamie. The Bigsby is a much finer controlled vibrato so that effect would be minimized by design. -- Darwin

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:51 pm

I don't notice either (only had the Bigsby a couple weeks) so I did a little test with my SNARK

if I take a E note on the G string , bend the E to a G (on the G string) while checking the low E string for tuning , the low E drops about two spaces below E on the snark during the G string bend , so it moves a little ... sure doesn't seem to move as much as a DF ..... I'll have to try the same test on a DF

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:54 pm

Fumble fingers wrote:I don't notice either (only had the Bigsby a couple weeks) so I did a little test with my SNARK

if I take a E note on the G string , bend the E to a G (on the G string) while checking the low E string for tuning , the low E drops about two spaces below E on the snark during the G string bend , so it moves a little ... sure doesn't seem to move as much as a DF ..... I'll have to try the same test on a DF

Thanks, thats exactly what I wanted to hear

And how good are those Snarks! I got one a couple of weeks ago, they're so convenient.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:30 pm

lol... I have two SNARK's , the battery went dead so I got another one , they sure are handy , I wouldn't want to be with out it , I have spare batteries now

Salmon · Post by **Salmon** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:09 am

Love my Snark also but I only use it for my acoustic.

If I had to figure on my own I would have thought the Bigsby was the crude design. It looks like the early whammy bars. Maybe it is. I thought those were improved upon with all of the later sleeker whammys that have surfaced.

Post by **gitman001** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:56 am

Hey Jamie,

I was gonna reply that it does affect the tuning.... not nearly as scientific as Eric's method! lol

What are you looking at? If you don't mind me asking

Scott

helle-man · Post by **helle-man** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:29 am

Yes, it will drop the pitch of the other strings slightly.

If you have a hard tail guitar and bend a string, the other's will go out slightly if you measure on a good tuner. The better players know how to use vibrato or other techniques in their playing to minimize the effect.

My 2¢
Will

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:16 am

WR stated the technical answer very well. The Bigsby will have less change than the other vibratos and it is not noticeable to me. Jamie, I am also interested in what you are up to.
I have a Gretsch 6121 Nashville (LP size) with a Bigsby and when I gig doing guitar work, it is one of my favorites to play. -- Darwin

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:23 pm

Scott and Will, is the change as dramatic as on a DF?

The guitar I have my eye on is a PRS Starla. One is going for a good price but its on the other side of the country

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:51 pm

Jamie, I just did a test with my Snark SN-8 (Recent Model) and I measured the d string while being plucked with the guitar laying on my bench. With two fingers I bent the 2 high strings and the 3rd until they almost touched the D string at the 12th fret. It did lower the pitch almost one bar on the Snark. I would consider that minimal for the amount of the bend. I would never come close to bending that much. This was done on my Gretsch Nashville. For what it's worth! -- Darwin

Edit, I just did the same thing on my Asat with the DF. It dropped at least 2 full bars, maybe a bit more. That would indicate the Bigsby has less than 1/2 the effect which is pretty much what I would have guessed.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:23 pm

Cheers Darwin, that sounds like more bend than I'd be doing

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:31 pm

blargfromouterspace wrote:The guitar I have my eye on is a PRS Starla. One is going for a good price but its on the other side of the country

Those are nice guitars, and the price is amazing (for the S2 model, at least). That is the one PRS model that I have seriously considered buying, aside from their older basses. I just noticed they are available in seafoam green, so that ups the likelihood of going after one later this year. The first ones I saw were in terrible colors - lime green being the worst.

Ken

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:06 pm

Ken, the one I'm looking at is one of the originals, but is priced below that of the S2. Pretty good deal

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:04 am

....and its now on layby

should be in my possession in a month or so

Salmon · Post by **Salmon** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:21 am

That is gorgeous!

Is "layby" Austrailian for layaway?

Did you reserve it over the phone or in person?

If in person what does it feel like?

Philby · Post by **Philby** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:21 am

It's like the 3-way love child of a Gretsch, Les Paul and and SG.

I really like the bevelled edges. I played a recent Yamaha something-or-other that had similar bevelling and it was very, very comfortable.

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:59 am

Philby wrote: I played a recent Yamaha something-or-other that had similar bevelling and it was very, very comfortable.

- I totally agree.

That PRS looks nice , cool find!

elwood

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:20 am

Salmon - it was all over the net. And yeah, layby = layaway.

Phil - that's what I think it looks like too! Hopefully it'll sound and feel as good as it looks.

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:58 am

That is a sweet rig Jamie. I have a PRS Johnny Hiland and the PRS quality is great. That thing reminds me of my Gibson Diablo. It has the carved edges like that. Hope you can wait the whole month!-- Darwin

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:57 am

blargfromouterspace wrote:Ken, the one I'm looking at is one of the originals, but is priced below that of the S2. Pretty good deal

That sounds like a sweet deal. Those bird outlines look really good. I prefer them to the regular bird inlays.

Philby wrote:It's like the 3-way love child of a Gretsch, Les Paul and and SG.

I really like the bevelled edges

The beveling turned me off at first, but after falling in love with an old Gibson EB-0 I've come to appreciate the feel.

blargfromouterspace wrote:Hopefully it'll sound and feel as good as it looks.

I'm looking forward to the tone report! If the tone works for you, I'll start saving my money...

Ken

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:32 am

Since we're talking PRS here, I might as well throw in some porn (photo by previous owner):

I would really like to A/B this one against a JB-2.

Ken

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:39 am

KenC wrote:Since we're talking PRS here, I might as well throw in some porn
Ken

Love to see more from the new owner

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:06 pm

Elwood wrote:Love to see more from the new owner

When we get some warmer weather I'll be taking lots of outdoor photos. Everything is still covered with snow...

Salmon · Post by **Salmon** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:12 pm

blargfromouterspace wrote:Salmon - it was all over the net. And yeah, layby = layaway.

So you bought it without playing it?

The Rock Inn is a Tokai dealer, ...hard to find in the USA.

Sweet guitar.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:16 pm

Salmon wrote: So you bought it without playing it?

The Rock Inn is a Tokai dealer, ...hard to find in the [/img]

Yep, without playing it. That's how I've bought G&Ls, and I've played another PRS with the same neck. There are a few Tokai dealers here, they're great guitars, even the Chinese ones. It was looking at the Tokai and Burns guitars on their website that led me to the Starla. I was going to get a Burns Bison or a TokaI SG, and ended up getting this instead as it ticked all the boxes

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:26 pm

Jamie,

I got a couple of minutes playing a recent Starla (not an S-2) unplugged in a store this afternoon. The wide/thin neck felt very comfortable to me, the body felt a lot thinner than it really was, and there was plenty of resonance and unplugged volume. I'll bet you're going to love yours. I'm looking forward to a tone report!

Ken

blargfromouterspace · Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:03 am

KenC wrote:Jamie,

I got a couple of minutes playing a recent Starla (not an S-2) unplugged in a store this afternoon. The wide/thin neck felt very comfortable to me, the body felt a lot thinner than it really was, and there was plenty of resonance and unplugged volume. I'll bet you're going to love yours. I'm looking forward to a tone report!

Ken

Cheers Ken. Do you mean wide/fat neck? Everything I've read has been wide/fat. I can't wait to get mine, I'm not too far from paying it off, but I foolishly forgot to put my extra allowances and travel time on my time card for this fortnight and they would have covered the balance of the layby

so it'll probably be another three weeks until it gets to me, hopefully I'll get it before my next 6-string gig.

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 am

The sales clerk told me it was a wide/thin profile. I could really tell the difference in string spacing compared to my vintage G&Ls - lots of nice space for my oversized bass-playing hand. It was shallow enough front-to-back that I could still have space between my palm and the back of the neck.

Ken

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:03 am

I finally got the Starla today. Initial impressions are very good. The neck - a wide-fat on mine- is in the same ballpark as the G&L #1 in terms of shape, a little more rounded at the back and with a 10" radius fingerboard. The shorter scale (24.5" compared to G&Ls 25.5") and narrower string spacing make it feel considerably different. Overall it feels much more modern and is much easier to play than any of my G&Ls

Build quality is on par with G&L, but the PRS is better in terms of fret finishing. I bought used, and I suspect the previous owner took it to a very good tech for a setup because it plays better than any other guitar I've played in recent memory.

The Bigsby is fun, and behaves like you guys said when bending strings, thanks again for clearing that up for me. I've already learned a valuable lesson - don't take all the strings off at the same time when restringing. Getting the first string back on is a frustrating experience.

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:11 am

Congrats on the PRS, Jamie! I'm glad you like it. How long 'til the pics???

Ken

darwinohm · Post by **darwinohm** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:15 am

Jamie, I'm glad that you finally have it. Bigsbys are very nice to control. You mentioned that the string spacing it closer. I have a Johnny Hiland Prs with the wide thin neck and the string spacing at the nut is wider and I have more fingering room. Hope you get some pics! -- Darwin

guitar_ed · Post by **guitar_ed** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:57 pm

Hi Jaimie,

As the owner of several guitars with a Bigsby

, perhaps I might mention a few things I have learned about restringing them.

1) I always start from the low E, with the neck pointing to my left. The low E is closest to my body.
2) Bend the ball end of the string.
3) Depending on my mood, and memory, I attach the ball end, and then I use a capo to hold it tight while I work at the tuner end of things. If I don't have my capo, I use my elbow.
4) Because of spacing reasons, I remove the B and high E strings together. Then I put on the high E string before the B string. (I have fat fingers some times.)

Hope this might help.

edg

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:38 pm

guitar_ed wrote:3) Depending on my mood, and memory, I attach the ball end, and then I use a capo to hold it tight while I work at the tuner end of things. If I don't have my capo, I use my elbow

A capo! Why didn't I think of that! Thanks Ed.

Salmon · Post by **Salmon** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:07 pm

Good to hear that you are happy with the new guitar.

Those are fine pictures from the dealer but I would like to see it in its new home.

blargfromouterspace · Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:22 am

As requested, some pics in its new home.
By the (ornamental-only) fireplace

On the window sill

There are a couple of things that I like better on this guitar as compared to my G&Ls
1) Strap buttons. The ones on a G&L are great, but these are even better. However, they might look out of place on a more spartan guitar

2) Input jack mount plate. This is a dead simple design and is, IMO, nicer looking than the football jack currently on use on ASATs. The jack itself is a good quality one and holds the end of the cable very firmly.

After reading Ken and Darwin's comments about the string spacing being wider I took out my measuring stick. The PRS is exactly the same as a G&L #1, 43mm. I think it must be the shorter scale fooling me into thinking they're closer together. Whatever the case, it's very easy to play. I need to get the nut slots widened as the larger strings I put on it are sticking a bit and throwing the guitar out of tune when the Bigsby is put into use.

As I expected the coil split sounds are very thin and far lower in volume in comparison to a regular single coil let alone the full sized humbucker. I will make better use of the push-pull tone knob by adding a Bill Lawrence Q-filter and getting rid of the coil splitting.

Philby · Post by **Philby** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:56 am

I love the look of this one Jamie.

The colour of that mahogany makes me want to pour a glass of Port.

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:31 am

Philby wrote:I love the look of this one Jamie.

The colour of that mahogany makes me want to pour a glass of Port.

Good idea. I have a bottle of Rutherglen's finest here and will pour myself one presently!

A couple of other observations. This guitar is solid mahogany, has a hefty Bigsby on it, and weighs 0.1lb less than my semi-hollow Bluesboy. The bodies are about the same size, but the PRS is 5mm thinner. I think this thinner body is a good thing for a guitar. SC2s have a body the same thickness and I think it works well, possibly making for a more resonant insturment.

Price. I got this for $2200 less than the price they sold when they came out here. $2200. And I still paid $1700 for it. Thats a lot of money for a guitar, and I don't think it's all that much better than a G&L. The only areas where I think a G&L loses - the fret job and setup - could be fixed by a trip to a good tech. Looking at their respective new prices, a G&L is much better bang for the buck.

And has anyone else noticed this - almost every PRS I've played has had rusty strings and frets that felt almost sticky with disuse. This one was no exception when it got here, the strings were ancient and the frets needed a steel-wool buffing to get them nice and slick again.

Salmon · Post by **Salmon** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:08 am

The very convincing ornamental fireplace has a lot of character.

The guitar does not show any use blemishes in the typical places judging by the photos.

So G&L has started using the football jack plates on standard models? I knew they had announced them informally at least but I saw a thread here from enough time following it where people were wondering why theirs had come with the old style. Until this week I had thought my newest ASAT was a 2013 but it turned out to be a 2011. It has the old style. When were the football jacks on standard models debuted?

I would feel confident relying on those PRS strap lock buttons. I do not trust the ones that come on G&L's. The lip is not large enough IMO.

I have been reading a lot about Gibson Les Pauls lately and it seems like your piece of mahogany would have received a nod for use. The Gibson often seems to weigh more than the same mass of mahogany in the better made copies, (meaning from the manufacturers of the better copies out there not suggesting that the copies are better than the Gibsons).

The rusty sticky strings and frets: Any thoughts on what is behind this? Coincidental neglect? Something about them attracts players with sweaty palms? The guitars are so hot they induce sweaty palms?