Vibrato arm different shape and size. Tension spring. Tuners

[Crusher]

Heya there!

Have a G&L Legacy from 2012 and a Legacy NENA 2012 collection, so both are from the same year. Both are USA made but there are some differences between them. Mostly, tuners, dual fulcrum vibrato and whammy bar.

The NENA have a full size arm (diameter, mor chunky), with an angle on it. It really is comfortable, and fits my playing. The regular legacy got somewhat a smaller arm (thinner), and is way more straight angle (almost no angle, straight bar). The hole where to put the arm in the regular legacy is smaller than the NENA. Any idea why? I want to buy another arm, but am afraid it won't fit and I don't really feel like changing the dual fulcrum (though if I have to because there is no options left, I will). I really cannot stand the straight bar, it feels less comfortable and doesn't fit my playing... I know I should adapt, but going from one guitar to the other often cause me headache...

Also, is there any way to modify tension over the dual fulcrum. I've tried to remove a spring from the vibrato, but it really gets less tension and makes it somewhat sloppy. My two other guitars (legacy and S500) have a good tension, FLOATING bridge (2 way). The NENA is locked and can only be moved one way, by pushing down the arm. I prefer the floating 2 way setup, but am a bit lost on how to do it... The S500 got a nice tension to it and doesn't detune even when dive bombing the vibrato. The NENA tends to detune easily, and feels weird because of the 1 way only. I've searched over internet to no avail... maybe I lack the skills to find informations, as I didn't find my answers in the search section (sorry)...

Other difference are the tuners. The NENA got stock G&L while the regular one got Sperzel regular tuners... the certificate says they are original (stock). I would like to put some G&L locking tuners, but wonder if the holes, shaft and "small pins" are the same. In fact, is that a direct swap?

So, to resume, the 3 questions are :

1. a) Vibrato arm size, ordering one on the G&L store would fit my Dual fulcrum?
1. b) Will it be angled or straight?
1. c) Do i have to change the dual fulcrum vibrato to get an angled arm?

2. How can I setup my dual fulcrum to be floating 2 way with a good tension on it (instead of it being too soft or 1 way only)?

3. Direct swap from Sperzel to G&L locking tuners?

Sorry for the novel I am very specific and spoiled a bit over my guitars

[Elwood]

2. How can I setup my dual fulcrum to be floating 2 way with a good tension on it (instead of it being too soft or 1 way only)?

The two screws holding the spring claw in the back cavity should be loosened to
get you to that floating point. You should be able to do that with all 3 springs, unless you are using
really light tension strings.
It takes a little trial and error to dial in just the right point, but you can make it work the way your
S500 does.
If the tuning is still unstable , you'll probably want to caress the nut slots or have someone do that.

[Crusher]

To be perfectly honest, I did try to loosen the screws but even then, it was impossible to make it a 2 way... only way I found was to remove a spring, but the tension was really low, thus making it too light... I know it is just a question of feel but still...

[Elwood]

hmmm..don't give up...that's the way to do it.
Perhaps the screws need to be longer to allow a bit more adjustment.

[Tooslowhand]

Is the bridge height set to specification above the body and the springs adjusted so that the bridge is level?

[Fumble fingers]

the Floating Bridge is just that , if adjusted right the Bridge should "float" level when in tune .... Bar/Vibrato tension is a matter of strings and tuning .... If it feels too loose go up a Gage on Strings and retighten the Trem Springs to get the Bridge back to Level , I tune down a whole step so I increased from 10's to 11's .. But there is no built in center stop

[Crusher]

The thing is, when I compare to my s500, they are setted the exact same way with the same gauge... I really cannot point on why it's different... I am used to these setups, will try again, and will keep i touch!

[Crusher]

Well, I did tried to pull out screws and all. Now, I understand why the last owner made it one way only : it goes out of tune as soon as I touch the vibrato... that is annoying. Removing one spring made the problem more flagrant. I am sort of out of solutions now. Maybe I will bring it to a luthier, but it really annoys me as I usually do great setups. I, for the love of god, don't understand. It is set-up exactly as the S500 i've got, but react way differently. Maybe if I put grease over the nut, it will help. It goes out of tune the moment I bend a string too high. The E seems worst. Maybe I got the screw too stiff or loose on one end. Will try again later, before I get impatient. First time having this problem with a guitar, especially on those G&L. It is not rocket science, why can't I find the problem is beyond me!

Cheers.

[Elwood]

Binding at the nut would be my guess, it's amazing how
a little drag can bind the string. If you take out the files
and sandpaper...just go slow, checking your progress often.
good luck

Can you link to some pics? there's some good eyes around here

elwood

[Crusher]

Yep, here it is in forum size pic :



And Hi-Res pic :

http://imgur.com/maMwVhw

Thanks for the help mate, much appreciated. This is driving me nuts! That guitar is so awesome, it's just a shame. Screws are really not long enough to make the trem floating. So before moving it, I prefer just at least get rid of my tuning problems, then I'll see...

Pics might not be in the right angle though, took some I had on my computer. My camera's battery is dead and can hadle 1 picture per charge (I know, it's old). Seems like I prefer having guitars than a new camera

Cheers!

[Crusher]

Well, after fiddling with it a lot, found why it was out of tune like that. Couldn't really take care of it except I've locked it in place...

When bending or playing a bit, noticed the trem moved by itself. I figured out the screws were not screwed enough in the wood. So I corrected the problem.
2 springs wasn't good enough either, as it allowed the bridge to move too easily. So I've put back the 3rd spring.
After that, I also screwed a bit the tuners, to make em harder to move. So far so good.
I've put some pencil on the nut slot to help, and it seems to have lowered the problem a bit.

Problem is probably withing the nut, it wouldn't make sense if it wasnt : it shouldn't come out of tune even when dive bombing. My two other G&L are rock solid. I like the feel of this guitar a lot, a real shame I encouter problems like that...

At first, my thought was because the strings were too light (have some hands problems that doesn't allow me to play normal gauge). It's on 9-42, which is probably why the tension of the springs are too much for it to stay 2 way (floating). But then I remembered I did the same with my S500, and it really have no tuning problem nor vibrato and it stays floating no problem...

On that note, I do wonder why my S500 would be hardcore for me to play with the exact same setting as my HH legacy, when the HH is on 10-46... I've dropped to 9-42 on the S500 because it was hard for me to play more than 1 hour (and my rehearsal usually lasts 3 to 4 hours). Anyway... anyone can chime in? I'm out of solutions, except locking the vibrato, which is a real shame since they are really nice and useful...

Cheers!

[Elwood]

If the nut slots are cut too high, that'll make a guitar feel 'tight'.

If you adjust the bridge post level, be sure to release the string tension by a good amount
so you don't dull the knife edge on the bridge plate.

Can you take a couple close up pics of the nut and bridge assembly?

[Crusher]

Heya!

Well, here are some pics. Be wary I just resetted everything huh, so it won't tell much... It was like that when I bought it, and, for the love of me, cannot set it up like my other ones...

Pics are uploading as of right now, it might take 2 minutes or so as they are Hi-Resolution. It's on dropbox so you need to open it in another tab :

Code: Select all

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/79mnp5handj6u1k/AAA8Cy6PXkJKScTgpd-iLe07a?dl=0

[Admin note: see PLEASE READ: links from dropbox.com are failing link checks.]

Thanks. Any help is appreciated, and I don't feel like spending 200$ at my local luthier and wait two weeks for it (I want to make it ready for new pickups installation, probably blades humbuckers like legacy special).

[Al Evans]

Thanks. Any help is appreciated, and I don't feel like spending 200$ at my local luthier and wait two weeks for it (I want to make it ready for new pickups installation, probably blades humbuckers like legacy special).

I Am Not A Luthier, but...

Looking at the pictures, it seems offhand that everything is in good position except the tremolo plate, which is against the body but should stand about 3/16" clear. The next thing I would try is to shim the neck a little, which should make the neck angle greater, allow the trem plate to be at its proper height, and generally improve the geometry. If it still wasn't right, it would be time to look to look hard at the nut. Maybe there's not enough of a break over the front end?

I guarantee this advice is worth every cent you paid for it!

--Al Evans

[Crusher]

Thanks Al for the hints. As for the trem plate, as soon as I posted the pics, I decided to go right back and raise it (I noticed it with pics but especially while playing). I ain't luthier either, but usually do awesome setups (trust me, I have to be doing good ones, or my hands wouldn't be able to remain in one piece). But really, I think I will have to go see a competent luthier later on anyway, to have the blade buckers installed along new electronics and all, so might as well wait a bit. A shame, as it will make the guitar wait a bit, but well, it's driving me nut (I cannot find why it's wacko)...

Well, at the price I paid for your advice, I am pretty sure it's gonna be a good bargain

Thanks again!

[Crusher]

Well, I'll be damned! Seems like the bridge height was at fault. Friend of mine checked it and said it was the problem. Probably getting stuck on the pickguard he said. By that time, I had little fun with a cutter and handywork... never, ever, do something while talking to someone else. My thumb is at rest for a whole month (been 3 weeks now and it still is really stiff). Lesson learned : when you play guitar or bass, don't cut yourself - hardtime!

[Craig]

Well, I'll be damned! Seems like the bridge height was at fault. Friend of mine checked it and said it was the problem. Probably getting stuck on the pickguard he said. By that time, I had little fun with a cutter and handywork... never, ever, do something while talking to someone else. My thumb is at rest for a whole month (been 3 weeks now and it still is really stiff). Lesson learned : when you play guitar or bass, don't cut yourself - hardtime!

Check out these posts in our G&L Knowledgebase, G&L Technical Questions & Tips:
G&L's DF Vibrato System
Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges

Hope this helps.