Electrical Wiring and Connections

[FZTNT]

OK all electronics guys. When I look at a guitar control board, or actually multiple guitars wiring systems, I see a lot of systems where the output jack is a typical tip, ring , sleeve connector. But the wires are only connected to the sleeve (usually ground) and ring terminals leaving the tip unconnected. Typically we use mono or tip, ring connectors for guitar cables. Wouldn't this cause a direct short because the wires only come into contact with the one connection. What happens if you use TRS cables? Here are two different examples of output jack wiring and regardless of what other paths the signal is taking in either diagram, what really is the difference and why doesn't it get electrically ugly at the other end (amp, console etc) when ground and signal are combined in the first example>



You will have to click the link below as the image is too wide.

http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/GALLERY2/ma ... lNumber=12

Anyway, just interested in how/why this works, thanks,

Tom

[Craig]

OK all electronics guys. When I look at a guitar control board, or actually multiple guitars wiring systems, I see a lot of systems where the output jack is a typical tip, ring , sleeve connector. But the wires are only connected to the sleeve (usually ground) and ring terminals leaving the tip unconnected. Typically we use mono or tip, ring connectors for guitar cables. Wouldn't this cause a direct short because the wires only come into contact with the one connection. What happens if you use TRS cables? Here are two different examples of output jack wiring and regardless of what other paths the signal is taking in either diagram, what really is the difference and why doesn't it get electrically ugly at the other end (amp, console etc) when ground and signal are combined in the first example>



You will have to click the link below as the image is too wide.

http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/GALLERY2/ma ... ewsIndex=1

Anyway, just interested in how/why this works, thanks,

Tom

I resized the images of the Climax wiring diagrams in the Gallery, so they will fit in forum posts.

Here is the resized one for this post:



Perhaps Paul will see this post and provide some help. Or try contacting him, see: RESOURCE: Paul's Technicalities sub-forum on bassesbyleo.com.

Hope this helps.

[Elwood]

But the wires are only connected to the sleeve (usually ground) and ring terminals leaving the tip unconnected.

I don't see that ever. Can you cite an example?
Sometimes an active circuit will use the ring and sleeve connections to connect the negative
side of the power. I haven't seen the hot signal run on the ring connection as best as I can remember.

[FZTNT]

But the wires are only connected to the sleeve (usually ground) and ring terminals leaving the tip unconnected.

I don't see that ever. Can you cite an example?
Sometimes an active circuit will use the ring and sleeve connections to connect the negative
side of the power. I haven't seen the hot signal run on the ring connection as best as I can remember.

Well, the first example does just that. No connection to the tip and the ring and sleeve are the connections to the amp, or whatever the down signal device is.
Here's a picture of the control board on my G-200 showing the yellow (presumably the hot) on the ring and the black on the sleeve going to the ground plate.



So if I am using a typical guitar cable with only a tip and sleeve, why does it not send the signal to ground and make a giant ground loop and hum. With a TRS cable I could see it working but wouldn't the amp expect the signal to be on the tip? It could be on the tip or ring in a balanced circuit but I did not think that amps are a balanced input and having signal and ground on the sleeve doesn't make sense in my mind. Then again, I should know this stuff and once upon a time I did, but old age and illness have robbed my mind of a lot of things. I think I filled my brain up and a lot of stuff just kind of spilled out cause there was no more room.

Anyone have any additional thoughts?

Tom

[DanDoulogos]

Okay, I think I can settle this for you. Let me know.

What is pictured in your photo is a mono/[T]ip-[S]leeve/"TS"/"unbalanced" output jack. The black wire is connected to the ground post (a metal tab with a drilled in "solder here" hole running through it at its end), and the yellow wire is connected to the VCC or "Tip" post. You don't solder wire to the metal arm that physically connects to the male jack when it is plugged in. You solder to the post (as in your photo) which is connected to that arm via what looks to be a washer from which both the VCC post (yellow wire) and the metal ribbon with the bendy bump extrude from.

Take a good look at this image. You can see more clearly that the Ground post is connected to the the sleeve, and really is just a little tab that has been bent upwards from a washer that is connected to a kind of throat that connects to the jack sleeve when the jack is inserted.

What may not be as obvious, but will be more obvious from this illustration than from your photo - is that the tip is connected to the other post - in fact the other post and the tip both are just metal tabs off the same washer, that are bend up - one to become the (VCC) post with the "solder here" hold drilled through it - the other to become the physical arm/spring that the tip of the male jack will connect to.



I think you didn't realize that the post the yellow wire is soldered is part of the piece that connects to the male jack's tip. In other words, when you say there is no connection to the tip - you are mistaken, because the tip and the post to which the yellow wire is soldered, are just two tabs bent up 90 degrees from the same flat ring of metal.

Let me know if that helped.

[FZTNT]

Ok, I see what you're saying. So, if I connect my meter from the tip of the plugged in guitar cable, to the solder lug referred to as tip in your picture, I should have continuity? I always used to solder directly to the little clip bent part that contacts the tip. Makes more sense now. Thanks Dan,

Tom

[DanDoulogos]

Tom - that's right.

[LauriBuell]

Hi...as per my experience the wires are only connected to the sleeve and ring terminals leaving the tip unconnected. Typically we use mono or tip, ring connectors for guitar cables. Wouldn't this cause a direct short because the wires only come into contact with the one connection. What happens if you use TRS cables? Here are two different examples of output jack wiring and regardless of what other paths the signal is taking in either diagram.

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