NGD - S-500 with a mystery configuration

[hush]

Hi all,

I am now the proud owner of this S-500










This is my first Strat style guitar and I'm glad I went straight for a G&L. I'm quite impressed by the feel of the neck.

However, it's a bit of a mystery to me has the electronics are not those of a S-500:
- There's no mini toggle or push/pull pot
- It has standard tone knobs (tone 1 : controls treble on middle pickup, tone 2 : controls treble on neck pickup)
- Hence, there's no PTB (Passive Treble and Bass)
- The pickups have non ajustable poles and are noisy on single coils

The answers I've found with the documentation and by searching this forum:
- Serial : CLF42865 (plastic decal)
- Number on the inside of the back plate : 6072 629
- Made in USA with COA
- Created : between June & August 2006 (if I compare S/N with others in the registry)
- Bi-Cut Neck that feels Plek'd and seems to be a No 3 60's style oval (no shoulders, not flat/pointy in the middle)
- Sperzel locking tuners

My questions:
- Is it a custom job : An S-500 with a Legacy pickguard & pickups? If it is, it doesn't start with CLF0 because it was built in mid 2006.
- Are the pickups still MFD? I'm getting a lot of noise on singles, but this is my first single coil. My rig is usually quiet.
- Is the body Alder? I've looked at types of wood and grain patterns online and it doesn't seem as agressive as Ash or as murky as Basswood.
- Is the neck indeed a No 3 60's style oval?

I'm reticent to check the neck/body for dating as I've just gotten a fresh setup and from what I gather G&L stopped stamping the necks in 2005.

If it is an S-500 with a Legacy pickguard, that doesn't make much sense to me. Why not just get a Legacy?

Craig, if you could get the specs on this one, I would really appreciate it. I'd like to know what I have before considering modding the electronics.

Thanks all for your input.

[Craig]

Hi all,

I am now the proud owner of this S-500










This is my first Strat style guitar and I'm glad I went straight for a G&L. I'm quite impressed by the feel of the neck.

However, it's a bit of a mystery to me has the electronics are not those of a S-500:
- There's no mini toggle or push/pull pot
- It has standard tone knobs (tone 1 : controls treble on middle pickup, tone 2 : controls treble on neck pickup)
- Hence, there's no PTB (Passive Treble and Bass)
- The pickups have non ajustable poles and are noisy on single coils

The answers I've found with the documentation and by searching this forum:
- Serial : CLF42865 (plastic decal)
- Number on the inside of the back plate : 6072 629
- Made in USA with COA
- Created : between June & August 2006 (if I compare S/N with others in the registry)
- Bi-Cut Neck that feels Plek'd and seems to be a No 3 60's style oval (no shoulders, not flat/pointy in the middle)
- Sperzel locking tuners

My questions:
- Is it a custom job : An S-500 with a Legacy pickguard & pickups? If it is, it doesn't start with CLF0 because it was built in mid 2006.
- Are the pickups still MFD? I'm getting a lot of noise on singles, but this is my first single coil. My rig is usually quiet.
- Is the body Alder? I've looked at types of wood and grain patterns online and it doesn't seem as agressive as Ash or as murky as Basswood.
- Is the neck indeed a No 3 60's style oval?

I'm reticent to check the neck/body for dating as I've just gotten a fresh setup and from what I gather G&L stopped stamping the necks in 2005.

If it is an S-500 with a Legacy pickguard, that doesn't make much sense to me. Why not just get a Legacy?

Craig, if you could get the specs on this one, I would really appreciate it. I'd like to know what I have before considering modding the electronics.

Thanks all for your input.

First off, the factory would not build this guitar as it is currently configured.
So, I recommend that you email G&L's Customer Support with your photos and include one showing the serial number. Here is the email address: repairs@glguitars.com.
Asked them to get the build and configuration information for this serial number including the order number.
If you look under the pickguard, you will likely find details (including the order number) either in black marker or a typed build sheet in the body pickup bathtub route.
That order number will be the key to whether or not the neck and body were built together at the factory.

Your photos show an Alder body finished in 3-tone Sunburst and the pickups look to be the CLF-100 (G&L's alnico single coils) used in the Legacy.
The fact that the wiring sounds to be like an early Strat wiring instead of the PTB system used in the S-500 and Legacy models, tells me that
a previous owner did some modding to the original. So, what you currently have is closer to a Legacy than an S-500 because it does not have
the MFD single coil pickups and the S-500 wiring.

If you want to convert it to an S-500, you can purchase the pickups from G&L's On-Line Store.
We have S-500 wiring diagrams/schematics in our Gallery in the Album: Instrument Manuals and Wiring Schematics.

Let us know what you find out and what you decide to do.

Hope this helps.

[Craig]

- Bi-Cut Neck that feels Plek'd and seems to be a No 3 60's style oval (no shoulders, not flat/pointy in the middle)

If it is a 2006 #3 neck the nut width will be 1 3/4", see: What are the USA neck size options, past and present?
The stock 2006 S-500 neck would be the #1 neck.

HTH.

[dalto]

It looks like someone turned your s500 into a strat-copy with g&l alnicos.

EDIT: It's probably still a great playing and sounding guitar.

[hush]

Thank you. I'll do a little more digging and I'll post my findings.

The neck is a #1 in the G & L sense. In terms of shape it appears to be a #3 in the sense of Fender neck profiles : http://www.fretboard.com/fenderneckclarity.html.

I feel a bit short changed feature wise, since the S-500 has more switching options, ajustable poles and PTB. However, I got the guitar at a good price and in essence what matters to me is the maple neck, it's feel and the Alder body. I can always change the electronics.

Can anyone give me the resistance of the CLF-100? Is it in the ballpark of vintage spec 60's Alnico 5?

Thanks

[Craig]

Thank you. I'll do a little more digging and I'll post my findings.

The neck is a #1 in the G & L sense. In terms of shape it appears to be a #3 in the sense of Fender neck profiles : http://www.fretboard.com/fenderneckclarity.html.

I feel a bit short changed feature wise, since the S-500 has more switching options, ajustable poles and PTB. However, I got the guitar at a good price and in essence what matters to me is the maple neck, it's feel and the Alder body. I can always change the electronics.

Can anyone give me the resistance of the CLF-100? Is it in the ballpark of vintage spec 60's Alnico 5?

Thanks

See this post in our G&L Knowledgebase forum: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

[hush]

Thanks again.

[Crusher]

Heya mate! The S500 you got probably has some alnico legacy pickups as mentionned by Craig. S500 got way bigger poles end (distinctive looks, different looking than regular pickups). They sound really amazing and fuller than alnico, yet different. They tend to hit the front of the amp, and are way dirtier Depends on what you like. Listening to youtube videos never really helped me when I bought my S500 as they sound almost identical to the legacy because of the sound quality over internet.

Usually, you have PTB system on the S500, and you can (or not, saw some without the switch) have the toggle switch. It works the same as a 7 way, to be honest, but on a 5 way switch. The toggle off, you have a standard SSS setup. When you toggle on, it enables the Bridge pickup (or the neck when past position 3). Position 2 and 4 are redundant, position 1 and 5 are also redundant. So, it will be like this :

Toggle off :
1. neck / 2. neck middle / 3. middle / 4. middle bridge / 5. bridge

Toggle on :
1. neck bridge / 2. neck middle bridge / 3. middle / 4. neck middle bridge (redundant 2) / 5. neck bridge (redundant 1)

Here, a pic says it all :



Hope I didn't say stuff that were previously stated.

Cheers!

[hush]

Thanks Crusher.

That's why I'm a little miffed. I feel I'm missing out on some nice features. However, I'm getting a nice sound out of the guitar and it's a quality instrument (@dalto). My concern is that if I were to convert it back to a true S-500, I'd have to find a pickguard with the proper electronics (toggle & PTB), not just the MFD pickups and there's none on the G&L Online Store.

I've emailed G&L as Craig suggested. I'll post as I get more info.

[WitSok]

The S-500 pickups will fit your pickguard. You could drill a hole for the mini-toggle expander switch or put a push/pull on the volume. Otherwise you can get an oem replacement pickguard from Chandler.

Beautiful guitar btw. Cheers Dan

[dalto]

That's why I'm a little miffed. I feel I'm missing out on some nice features. However, I'm getting a nice sound out of the guitar and it's a quality instrument (@dalto). My concern is that if I were to convert it back to a true S-500, I'd have to find a pickguard with the proper electronics (toggle & PTB), not just the MFD pickups and there's none on the G&L Online Store.

It shouldn't be impossible to wire it back to it's original state if you want to. It will probably be more expensive than selling the guitar you have and replacing it with a traditionally setup S-500 though.

If you like the way it sounds why not keep it the way it is? The MFDs in an S-500 are a lot different then those alnicos probably sound. Unless you are searching for that S-500 sound you might end up with a guitar you like less than the one you already have.

[Crusher]

If I were you, I would keep the exact configuration you've got and buy a new pickguard with pots, pickups and wiring to get the S500. If you ever wanna go back, you can always put it as it was without too much hassle. Reverting it back by soldering and configuring is a pain, especially with the 5 way (trust me, it's easy to destroy it... and soldering / unsoldering it always leave scraps). That's just me though.

Just an advice too, S500 is not for everyone, you gotta try before I think - though you can get a pretty convincing legacy alnico sound by lowering volume and bass. I really really really love MFD to bits, but the sound is quite distinctive and there is nothing similar to it. To be honest, best thing is to have both, but well, I'm more of a humbucker guy, and I will probably mod my S500 with F100 pickups at the bridge and neck, so the last suggestion might sounds wacko coming out from me - but I am still afraid to drop 500+$ for a wild guess, because I like it the way it is right now but it "could" improve it or maybe not (just like you). Finding a place that is having both guitars on their shop is pretty hardcore, so it's a wild guess. But concerning the single coils, it just doesn't fit half of what I usually play. Color me stupid but the S500 is the best jazz / blues guitar I've ever played - the bottom on this guitar and warmth is just amazing when you play finger style. It's just about the presence : nothing beats a good humbucker for dirtiness

But really, buy yourself a new pickguard, it will cost you around 40$ on chandler. Might as well dot it that way. And what is good about those kind of guitars with the pool routing : you can always put something else in it without any problems, just 10 screws (if I recall correctly) and soldering the jack.

Cheers mate!

[hush]

Here's the reply from G&L (thanks very much to Craig for the suggestion) :

Hello,

Just looked it up and your S500 production date is ironically todays date 07/25/06 , everything matches up with the body color and the neck. As you pointed out the pickguard and pickups are not stock, this was modified to look as a Legacy. As for the pickups I cannot verify whether they are in fact G&L pickups, the pickup covers can be bought individually and maybe the previous owner used his preferred pickups that might not be G&L? As for the neck on your S500, it’s a 12” radius, nut width is 1 5/8”, body finish is alder. If you have any further questions please email me back.

Best Regards,

Memo Romero

The S-500 pickups will fit your pickguard. You could drill a hole for the mini-toggle expander switch or put a push/pull on the volume. Otherwise you can get an oem replacement pickguard from Chandler.

Beautiful guitar btw. Cheers Dan

Thanks Dan

It shouldn't be impossible to wire it back to it's original state if you want to. It will probably be more expensive than selling the guitar you have and replacing it with a traditionally setup S-500 though.

I agree. I'm weighing my options, but I think I'll stick with the current configuration for awhile.

If you like the way it sounds why not keep it the way it is? The MFDs in an S-500 are a lot different then those alnicos probably sound. Unless you are searching for that S-500 sound you might end up with a guitar you like less than the one you already have.

Again I agree. My main guitar is an Ibanez JPM100 P1 with humbuckers. I've owned this guitar for 22 years. I bought a used Epiphone Les Paul Plus Top Pro two years ago for a change of pace and sold it recently as I could get a similar sound out of the JPM and wasn't able to get used to the shorter scale length even after bumping up to 11-48 strings. The S-500's neck as a similar feel to the JPM (upgraded to 10-46) and has some of the distinctive quack I'm looking for.

If I were you, I would keep the exact configuration you've got and buy a new pickguard with pots, pickups and wiring to get the S500. If you ever wanna go back, you can always put it as it was without too much hassle. Reverting it back by soldering and configuring is a pain, especially with the 5 way (trust me, it's easy to destroy it... and soldering / unsoldering it always leave scraps). That's just me though.

No argument here. My soldering skills are not up to the task. The loaded pickguard would be the better option for me. Suggestions?

Just an advice too, S500 is not for everyone, you gotta try before I think - though you can get a pretty convincing legacy alnico sound by lowering volume and bass. I really really really love MFD to bits, but the sound is quite distinctive and there is nothing similar to it. To be honest, best thing is to have both, but well, I'm more of a humbucker guy, and I will probably mod my S500 with F100 pickups at the bridge and neck, so the last suggestion might sounds wacko coming out from me - but I am still afraid to drop 500+$ for a wild guess, because I like it the way it is right now but it "could" improve it or maybe not (just like you). Finding a place that is having both guitars on their shop is pretty hardcore, so it's a wild guess. But concerning the single coils, it just doesn't fit half of what I usually play. Color me stupid but the S500 is the best jazz / blues guitar I've ever played - the bottom on this guitar and warmth is just amazing when you play finger style. It's just about the presence : nothing beats a good humbucker for dirtiness

But really, buy yourself a new pickguard, it will cost you around 40$ on chandler. Might as well dot it that way. And what is good about those kind of guitars with the pool routing : you can always put something else in it without any problems, just 10 screws (if I recall correctly) and soldering the jack.

Cheers mate!

I completely understand. I'm more of a humbucker guy also. That's why I'm cautious venturing into single coil territory. Considering I have a fine guitar, the orignal Ibanez John Petrucci Signature model, any other electric guitar must serve a complementary purpose. All in all, the fact that it's setup more as a conventional Strat may serve me better. I may change the single coils for a better noiseless option however. Suggestions?

That soundclip was nice. I also find it comfortable for fingerpicking. The string spacing is more suitable for it than my Ibanez.

Thank you all for your input. It's much appreciated.

[Crusher]

Hum, humbucker pickups in single coil size. That would be my suggestion... Humbuckers in single coil format tend to keep the single coil dynamics. But that's me, I can be wrong! I would suggest the legacy special humbuckers, pretty close to a strat sound while maintaining a small "oomph" predominant in humbucker stuff, especially the bridge. But really, I've tried a friend's one again this week, and it sounds pretty stratty - my next purchase, really. The S500 is really less noisy to be honest, than a traditional alnico pickup. All in all, the only problem with me and the MFD single coil is we do pretty darn good a day, and the other day, I am not found of my playing with them due to their relatively dark sound and the dynamics (they are hyper precise, if you do some playing mistakes, it really gives no free pass - it will show all of your lacks - and dark pickups means it's easier to make the tube's amp to "fart", almost "peak" - I don't know how to describe it, but if I play really hard, it can come close to a fuzz effect... not quite the same, but you know, "fart" is the only term that comes to my mind). Really beautiful pickups, but got love and hate for single coils. Their dynamic is usually pretty responsive, so if you are an "agressive" player like me, you might like them a lot but be on the fence with them sometimes... because being agressive means more hard hit on strings, and it can make some amp "farts"... they hit especially hard on the front of the amp (probably due to the high output).

But, check about the legacy special. Those blades humbuckers are really something (G&L does good stuff with their pickups). I like them, except for their inability to balance strings (but to be really honest here, I rarely balance my stuff with pickup screws (a good setup usually do the trick), except when it really is showing a huge volume difference between strings (pratty uncommon).

I was never a fan of noiseless single coils, though I don't despise them. It always lack some life to me, but cannot say why... that's the thing - I dunno why... some people rave for them though, and you might! Me, well... not so much, but I'm spoiled and found my "confort zone" and I know what I can make sound good and less good - I know playing is in the fingers, it's always "in the mix" for me. I can sound good on single, especially when doing funk and blues, but when I play in a band context, it can be a "meh" for me. Like I said, nothing beats a good humbucker for my taste.

But, check about p90's too, you might find some cool answers there. Here is a list of pickups that interests or have interested me but cannot have them all :
Seymour Duncan JB jr / lil 59 (humbucker in single coil size, still have some single coil guts in them)
G&L blades humbuckers (humbucker that doesn't stray too far from single coil, a good noiseless option)
Bare Knuckles Mississipi queen (rare P90 I've been able to like, but noisey though)
Seymour Duncan STK-S7 (single coil stacked for noiseless operation, one of the rare noiseless I've been craving for... sounds really great) ... STK-S9 are pretty cool too, but more on the "hot" side

Matter of taste, really! Hope I made some sense!

[hush]

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I was swamped. Thanks for the suggestions.

Good to know about the MFD pickups. I'm playing through an open back Fender Super-Sonic 22w with a Celestion V30 and I'm also a fairly aggressive player. I want to steer clear of flabby bass. Also good to know about the noiseless being a little meh. I've been playing Dimarzio humbuckers for a long time on my Ibanez. Air Norton for the neck and Steve's Special for the bridge. I can cover a broad range with those pickups and I don't feel like I'm losing any dynamics.

So for the G&L, I'm pretty much looking for the Strat quack with a little omph like you described.

Are these the Legacy Special :
https://g-l-online-store.myshopify.com/ ... ng-pickups

[Crusher]

Yup, that's what I am gonna put on a legacy of mine too. Those blades humbuckers are cool. So, to answer your question, yes, the link your provided are legacy special's pickups!