Not happy with G&L treatment towards dealer (since '04)

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:18 am

I've been a fan of G&L guitars for more than 20 years. I follow them on social media and Facebook and see all the awesome photos they post on Instagram.

I have a local G&L dealer in my town and they have historically been a smaller volume dealer ordering mostly Tribute models since 2004. I am a fan of buying local if possible.

Anyway, I spec'd out a nice G&L USA model with all of the build options that I wanted on the guitar. The dealer then takes my list and goes to G&L to get a price quote. G&L gives them a quote and a lead-time estimate of 10-14 weeks. They come back to me with a price and I put down a deposit to order the guitar.

Then it comes time for the dealer to order the guitar for the factory. Unexpectedly, they are blindsided with a new policy that they must order (6) USA G&L guitars at a time, and not just (1).

Of course, for a smaller dealer, this is a lot of money to tie up in inventory so they couldn't agree to G&L new policy (that they no prior knowledge of in the first place).

So, the folks at G&L wouldn't budge on the "policy" and so here I sit in the middle of this with no USA G&L on order. I even spoke with one of folks from Fullerton who was very courteous with me but he just didn't sound optimistic that he could help me or make an exception on the "policy."

I really wish the rep who gave this dealer a price quote on the unit would have told them on the front end about the new policy before I got as far into the process of both 1) getting a quote and 2) putting down a deposit.

Now I don't have a USA G&L on order and I am left to ponder whether I want to order one or look elsewhere.

meursault · Post by **meursault** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:28 am

That sucks...

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:38 am

this will be a good one for Craig .... my music store is small and have no problems getting one and seldom has more than 2 USA's on the wall , when I ordered my very first in 2013 new G&L he had none in stock .... maybe factory policy changed ??

meursault · Post by **meursault** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:15 pm

Fumble fingers wrote:maybe factory policy changed ??

well, that's the point as stated in the op... And that policy sucks... This is so musicians unfriendly...

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:18 am

meursault wrote:
Fumble fingers wrote:maybe factory policy changed ??
well, that's the point as stated in the op... And that policy sucks... This is so musicians unfriendly...

Yeah, the store had no idea on the policy. Maybe the sales reps are wanting to boost their numbers.

dalto · Post by **dalto** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:00 pm

It seems like this will put a serious dent in the ability to order a custom guitar.

Wish I had pulled the trigger on that Legacy Special I had been wanting.

That being said, the MIA guitar business isn't exactly an easy one to be in these days so if this is what G&L has to do to stay in it then it is what it is.

WitSok · Post by **WitSok** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:54 pm

This is very unfortunate if true. It would make ordering a custom / to option extremely difficult. The ability to order a guitar to customer spec is one of the main reason I really like G&L.

When my local store was looking to pick up FMIC, it sounded like they had a similar policy. But he went on the say that it was driving many small store away from FMIC and towards G&L. Don't know how true, but given one can order direct from FMIC makes me belive it probably true and the direct sales are an effort to make up for lost dealers.

Really hoping this policy change is not true.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:38 pm

hopefully Craig can verify with his contacts

Challenger · Post by **Challenger** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:27 pm

A policy like this makes sense for guitar strings, guitar stands, and inexpensive smaller items that are usually shipped in a master pack. It makes no sense on a guitar. Are they shipping all six guitars together? I doubt it.

Miles Smiles · Post by **Miles Smiles** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:26 am

dalto wrote: That being said, the MIA guitar business isn't exactly an easy one to be in these days so if this is what G&L has to do to stay in it then it is what it is.

I doubt, that this would be something that helps to stay in, it's more likely to have the opposite effect.

Post by **Darth Invader** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:11 am

We do not have a policy like that. For one thing, dealers would have to hold any special order until they're ready to place their order for regular stock. For our stronger G&L USA dealers, it would have virtually no delay as they tend to order every week or so, but at the other end of the spectrum, it might be every few months.

It may be that the dealer is only carrying Tribute Series, as we do treat G&L USA and G&L Tribute Series individually as a practical matter. We have dealers who cater to higher end instruments and don't carry instruments in the Tribute Series price range, so obviously we can't require them to be a dealer for G&L Tribute Series. Likewise, we have dealers carry Tribute Series but do not sell instruments in the US price range, so we can't require them to be a G&L USA dealer. In any case, we do expect a dealer to be reasonably supportive of whichever line they have agreed to carry. We factor in the size of the town and other things and I believe we're quite accommodating.

Since the dealer had to contact G&L, they didn't already have a price list so it seems pretty unlikely they are carrying the US line. G&L USA dealers don't ask for price quotes as the instruments and available options are in the price list, which is something like 26 pages long just to make sure everything is clear.

I'm sorry to hear you went that far to figure out on your own how you wanted your instrument optioned, but since you're looking to special order, there are plenty of G&L USA dealers who would be happy to help, particularly our Premier Dealers.

Best to you,

Dave

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:42 am

bottom line, will you take the order for your dealer who supports you? and who supports your clientele ?

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:54 am

or not,,,,,,,,,,, six min order per custom??? its not realistic,,, something is confused im sure

Post by **Darth Invader** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:57 am

geoff douglas wrote:bottom line, will you take the order for your dealer who supports you? and who supports your clientele ?

If a dealer is not presently a G&L USA dealer, and therefore don't support the G&L USA line, I expect the sales department would not take an order from that dealer.

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:13 am

sry I didnt realise g&l tribute dealer was different to a G&L USA dealer, yep there is a problem for sure, you are actually one company i thought, i hope you can work it out, i think you need too and the sooner the better,,, how petty is all this,,,WTH

WitSok · Post by **WitSok** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:22 am

Thanks for clarification Dave.

Glad to hear that I can still easily order special order guitar.

I can understand why G&L would treat G&L Tribute and G&L USA diffently. And I can understand there being requirements to be established as a dealer of each specific line. Seems fair to me.

Thanks for the great instruments and keep up the good work.

Cheers, Dan

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:42 am

from a business point of view, from a G&L buyers view, from any dealers point of view, G&L tribute only or G&L USA only, or G&L tribute and G&L USA combined god forbid that be allowed, lets work for the best we can provide for Leo's legacy,, never let business greed surpass customer want,, its over when that happens,,,

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:06 am

geoff douglas wrote:from a business point of view, from a G&L buyers view, from any dealers point of view, G&L tribute only or G&L USA only, or G&L tribute and G&L USA combined god forbid that be allowed, lets work for the best we can provide for Leo's legacy,, never let business greed surpass customer want,, its over when that happens,,,

Geoff, I think you are being a bit unrealistic in your displeasure with the way G&L does business. I have been in the professional audio business most of my life and all businesses have to have some type of self regulation as far as who and how their products are sold and distributed. Try becoming a Sony dealer and you'll see what I am talking about.

If you let every store that wants to place an order at a dealer cost you would be seeing G&L guitars at Sears and Best Buy, or even the local mom and pop music stores. It's just not feasible or sensible. I think from what the man is saying is that if you want a guitar with specific options you just need to place the order with the right dealer. I do not believe he mentioned anything about minimum order size from the shop, just order from the shop that can deliver what you are looking for. So, cut him a break and be thankful that these guitars are still available, made in Fullerton, CA. US of A.

Just my tuppence...

Tom

dalto · Post by **dalto** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:50 pm

Darth Invader wrote:We do not have a policy like that. For one thing, dealers would have to hold any special order until they're ready to place their order for regular stock. For our stronger G&L USA dealers, it would have virtually no delay as they tend to order every week or so, but at the other end of the spectrum, it might be every few months.

That is great news that this is just a miscommunication.

Thank you for posting directly to clear up the confusion.

notalk · Post by **notalk** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:37 pm

Is it fair to summarize this as the OP went to his favorite dealer to order a new guitar. That dealer was a Tribute-only dealer. That dealer contacted G&L about ordering a US G&L. That dealer was told the dealer would have to become a US dealer, in addition to already being a Tribute dealer, and to become a US dealer, the dealer would have to order six US guitars.

The OP wants to order a US guitar. The OP can order his guitar from any US dealer without any problems and get the guitar he wants.

Is this close to a good summarization?

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:29 pm

Without small business there is no big business. Mom and Pop stores build countries, its a fact that should never be forgotten though often is.

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:33 pm

Darth Invader wrote:We do not have a policy like that. For one thing, dealers would have to hold any special order until they're ready to place their order for regular stock. For our stronger G&L USA dealers, it would have virtually no delay as they tend to order every week or so, but at the other end of the spectrum, it might be every few months.

It may be that the dealer is only carrying Tribute Series, as we do treat G&L USA and G&L Tribute Series individually as a practical matter. We have dealers who cater to higher end instruments and don't carry instruments in the Tribute Series price range, so obviously we can't require them to be a dealer for G&L Tribute Series. Likewise, we have dealers carry Tribute Series but do not sell instruments in the US price range, so we can't require them to be a G&L USA dealer. In any case, we do expect a dealer to be reasonably supportive of whichever line they have agreed to carry. We factor in the size of the town and other things and I believe we're quite accommodating.

Since the dealer had to contact G&L, they didn't already have a price list so it seems pretty unlikely they are carrying the US line. G&L USA dealers don't ask for price quotes as the instruments and available options are in the price list, which is something like 26 pages long just to make sure everything is clear.

I'm sorry to hear you went that far to figure out on your own how you wanted your instrument optioned, but since you're looking to special order, there are plenty of G&L USA dealers who would be happy to help, particularly our Premier Dealers.

Best to you,

Dave

Thanks for chiming in on this topic. Let me fill in some of the holes as to what I think happened and share some more of my thought on the situation.

This particular dealer had not ordered a USA product in a number of years so I guess the factory had downgraded them to a "Tribute only" dealer which was obviously not made clear to them previously.
So the sales rep tells them to get back in the USA G&L business, you need to buy 6 guitars (a surprise to the dealer).

This is tough for a smaller market dealer and becomes even tougher when deciding what to order. With all of the custom options that can be ordered, the chances of someone saying, I really like that guitar, but I wish had a 9.5" radius or a rosewood neck or a Classic C or a black pick guard, etc, etc.

I'm not really sure if they had the USA price list but they may have contacted the rep more to find out the lead-time and try to place the order.

I see that website has recently been updated to distinguish the Premier Dealers list. It looks like the closest one to me is about a 2-1/2 hour drive.

At the end of day, the factory's answer is one that is loyal to Premier dealers and not so much the end customer. Some of the folks that I have spoken to locally said the factory should have honored the one time USA custom order and let the dealer know what it would take to get back in the US dealer business in the future.

As a fan of G&L guitars, I am already in a minority group when you compare me to the rest of the world who might rather have a Fender, Gibson, PRS, Gretsch, boutique brand, etc. The beauty of a G&L USA guitar is that you can get tons of custom options and not have to spend a small fortune getting what you want. I appreciate the value, the history, and the quality of G&L guitars.

The factory's lack of communication with the dealer on their account status before I made a deposit is unfortunate and disappointing. I may ultimately end up contacting a Premier dealer but right now I am not in a hurry to make a decision.

Arti · Post by **Arti** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:04 pm

That's a shame! You want A guitar, g&l make guitars but Policy is getting in the way. I understand the need to look after dealers but the end goal is to sell guitars to players so other players can see and hear the quality of the instruments so you can sell more guitars.

Don't let this stop you from buying your guitar, I'm about 3 hours from our g&l dealer and I treat it like a road trip! Reminds me of the younger days when we would all pile in the car and hit the road! Only difference is we only had enough money for beer and fuel back then and slept in our swags (Aussie one man canvas sleeping bag)!

ROAD TRIP!!!!!

Ultimate1 · Post by **Ultimate1** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:10 pm

Delete

dalto · Post by **dalto** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:43 pm

I am really struggling to understand the outrage here.

Requiring an initial minimum order to become a dealer for a product sold direct from the manufacturer is common practice in a large variety of industries. In fact, even some distributors require minimum order to open up an account. An initial order of 6 guitars to become a dealer of USA guitars seems pretty reasonable to me, even for a small store.

Also, I don't see the connection between this policy and big chain stores. The vast majority of the Premier dealers are small independent stores.

At the end of the day, if someone wants a custom G&L guitar all they need to do is contact one of the many other dealers that are out there. I have bought USA G&L guitars from small dealers from different parts of the country. It was a completely painless process.

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:25 pm

I can only think, what would Leo think about this issue, would he back the little business and little town guitarist. I would love to read your thoughts.

WitSok · Post by **WitSok** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:34 am

Being that Leo did not have a Tribute Series line, he wouldn't be supporting this business. I'm sure if this business wanted to become a G&L dealer he would support them assuming they met minimum requirements. I really doubt one order of one guitar would have met Leo's minimum requirement. This business chose to not meet the minimum requirement and that is okay. It is not G&L refusing their business. It wouldn't be fair to have minimum requirements that many dealers around the country met, and then give another dealer an easier means of entry to G&L USA. I would be ticked off as a dealer if I had to buy six guitars and found out another only had to buy one.

The fact the G&L Tribute Series and G&L USA are treated separately make sense to me. Minimum requirements could be different, tax / duty issues, terms of sale, etc...

As for supporting small town musicians, I think both Leo and G&L today are doing so. It was done back then the same way it is today - throuh G&L dealers around the world.

Also, not every G&L USA dealer is a Premier dealer. There are even higher requirements for Premier dealers than what was mentioned here. My local store is not a Premier dealer , but I have bought two USA model from them.

Premier requirements on G&L's website:

Premier Dealers for Made in Fullerton Guitars have a minimum of 12 guitars in stock including select Leo Fender Originals: ASAT Special, ASAT Classic, S-500 and Comanche.

Premier Dealers for Made in Fullerton Basses have a minimum of 8 basses in stock including select Leo Fender Originals: ASAT Bass, L-2000, L-2500, SB-2.

Premier Dealers for Made in Fullerton Guitars & Basses meet both of the requirements above.

Premier Dealers for Tribute Series have a minimum of 12 instruments in stock.

In closing I would be shocked if I walked into a Chevy dealer and could order a Cadillac, unless of course they are a Cadillac dealer too. Their both GM.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:50 am

geoff douglas wrote:I can only think, what would Leo think about this issue, would he back the little business and little town guitarist. I would love to read your thoughts.

On one hand I would think that Leo would likely support this police.

I also think that Leo would not even get involved, that's why he had Dale Hyatt. Dale would support these policies.

I don't think Leo or Dale would have developed the tribute series at all, but that's difficult to verify.

Either way, this small issue has been blown up too much. It's a common practice in a lot of industries. When I sold beer in NY, I had to buy from specific distributers regardless of the price. It was a mafia thing. We had our own trucks and could go get products from wherever we found the best price. Had one truck blown up and many other slashed tires, various damage and vandalism. Business is not always what it appears to be so just be thankful you can still order these great guitars at all.

Tom

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:14 pm

Some of the point has been missed here. Yes, lot's of would like to order whatever guitar from a friend at a local shop. Yes, there are policies, procedures, and sales contract agreements with regards to minimum order quantities, etc. I know that stuff exist because there are a lot of big name companies that tell smaller stores, you must purchase x amount or x thousands of dollars to play in our sandbox. I understand these things.

In this scenario, the dealer is listed as a G&L dealer with no label of a Tribute only or USA, etc. It had been a few years since this dealer had ordered a USA product. During these years, policies and most likely personnel have changed. Side note: Was told by their inside rep that engineer Paul Gagon is no longer with G&L which is kind of disappointing to hear.

The dealer essentially had unknowingly been changed to a Tribute only dealer. The USA policy of "Buy 6 guitars" was also a surprise to them.

The frustration is that the rep from G&L didn't tell them on the front end of the conversation that they were now a Tribute only dealer. The rep went as far as getting them a quote and a lead-time on the guitar.
I then make a deposit to move forward with the order. The dealer then goes to place the order with the rep, and then they get the "red light" and the news of the new policy.

The week I complained to G&L about this, they quickly updated the dealer listing on their website to show both the regular and Premier dealers.

Post by **Craig** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:27 pm

rhythmicist wrote: The week I complained to G&L about this, they quickly updated the dealer listing on their website to show both the regular and Premier dealers.

This is not true. G&L added the Premier dealers in mid-2015 and they updated their website on August 1, 2015. See this from the Internet Archives:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150801125 ... /index.asp . I did recently add this post to our G&L Knowledgebase: G&L PREMIER DEALERS - NORTH AMERICA ....

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:33 pm

Paul Gagon was just on FB under G&L explaining pick ups just a few days ago ....

maybe the dealer should have asked about availability of the USA's product and a current price list first before ordering ??

my little G&L dealer is not on the premiere dealers list (yet) but has had no problems getting them , but he's been a USA dealer quite awhile , they quit stocking G&L when the market fell off back in mid late 2000's when no one had any money and he's just now starting to get some good inventory back on the wall ....

notalk · Post by **notalk** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:10 pm

Ultimate1 wrote:
rhythmicist wrote:At the end of day, the factory's answer is one that is loyal to Premier dealers and not so much the end customer.

An inflexible policy like this towards a small business does not make G&L management look great.

What if you were a USA or a USA Premier dealer? What if you had invested in a number of the more expensive guitars to hold and sell? What if someone with less of a capital investment in G&L inventory was allowed the same "privilege" of ordering USA guitars? Wouldn't that make you a little upset? (Why should you have to shell out the cash when others don't have to?)

Kind of like if you want to buy a Cadillac, you need to go to a Cadillac dealer. Your local neighborhood Chevy dealer cannot sell you a new Cadillac.

If G&L wants it's dealers to support G&L, G&L has to, in turn, support its dealers. It supports the USA dealers by protecting their ability to sell USA G&L's. And, as customers, we should understand that if we want a USA G&L, we have to go to a USA dealer. Not necessarily a Premier dealer, but a USA dealer.

ant_riv · Post by **ant_riv** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:48 pm

G&L has been and continues to be an excellent company that has shown incredible commitment to musicians and independent dealers.

As mentioned, there are not many manufacturers where one can custom order a guitar, with the options and at this price point.

Additionally, when I had an issue, Dave personally stepped in and resolved my issue beyond my expectation.

I had the honor to have met Mr. Fender, and spend some time with him, and sincerely believe he would be thrilled with the current G&L leadership.

Something that hasn't been mentioned, but is relevant is the ability/decision to effectively support a product line. A dealer who hasn't invested in the purchase of a single US-made guitar for a number of years is NOT effectively committing to knowing the product line, to having real experience in explaining the various options, in having a model that approximates, let alone equals the possible option, or so many more components of EFFECTiVE support.

Imagine the custom-order comes in and the customer isn't happy with (for example) the neck thickness because the closest equivalent choice to compare to is a guitar that was made in a different factory to different specifications. Who would be at fault in that scenario?

Six guitars, to represent an entire product line, isn't a significant commitment. Yes I understand it may be economically difficult for a Mom and Pop, but how many US have they sold over the last few years? It doesn't seem they are willing to support, represent, and promote the product line, to me. It sounds like they are willing to be an order-taker.

I admire G&L respecting the brand enough to expect their representatives to actually represent, and not just take orders.

The store is probably great people, but I don't think that is the only important component for representing a brand.

And as always, this is just my IMO and YMMV.

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:38 am

Thanks Craig, they must have been updating their dealer listing because there were a couple days last week where the link didn't work at all.

This really boils down to a lack of communication between G&L and the dealer. They didn't know they were a Tribute only dealer nor did they know the "Buy 6" policy to get back in the US model business.

They could have honored the one time request but ultimately decided to protect the dealers already setup as USA dealers.

I'm still a believer that G&L makes a great custom product for the money. I am hopeful to have a better experience if and when I reach out to another dealer.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:05 pm

ant_riv wrote:G&L has been and continues to be an excellent company that has shown incredible commitment to musicians and independent dealers.

As mentioned, there are not many manufacturers where one can custom order a guitar, with the options and at this price point.

Additionally, when I had an issue, Dave personally stepped in and resolved my issue beyond my expectation.

I had the honor to have met Mr. Fender, and spend some time with him, and sincerely believe he would be thrilled with the current G&L leadership.

Something that hasn't been mentioned, but is relevant is the ability/decision to effectively support a product line. A dealer who hasn't invested in the purchase of a single US-made guitar for a number of years is NOT effectively committing to knowing the product line, to having real experience in explaining the various options, in having a model that approximates, let alone equals the possible option, or so many more components of EFFECTiVE support.

Imagine the custom-order comes in and the customer isn't happy with (for example) the neck thickness because the closest equivalent choice to compare to is a guitar that was made in a different factory to different specifications. Who would be at fault in that scenario?

Six guitars, to represent an entire product line, isn't a significant commitment. Yes I understand it may be economically difficult for a Mom and Pop, but how many US have they sold over the last few years? It doesn't seem they are willing to support, represent, and promote the product line, to me. It sounds like they are willing to be an order-taker.

I admire G&L respecting the brand enough to expect their representatives to actually represent, and not just take orders.

The store is probably great people, but I don't think that is the only important component for representing a brand.

And as always, this is just my IMO and YMMV.

What he said.

geoff douglas · Post by **geoff douglas** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Firstly, please do not think I am trying to discredit G&L, I am only trying to improve the image and awareness of their product. I feel I am stirring the pot too much though so will make this my last post on this matter.
I cannot believe this is a one off event, surely many other small stores throughout America have had the same thing happen to them. Just imaging for example that 50 orders per year are lost in this way, well it’s not just 50 guitars though, it’s the friends of these 50 guitarist that also do not have the exposure to these guitars. In a cutthroat business, as I do believe this is, any business should be happy to accept any orders from any dealer, regardless of its size. It’s all about promoting the product and creating good will with guitarists as opposed to promoting the sales department figures. These minimum order levels are a product of sales department numbers, I can assure you this is correct. In business product awareness and customer satisfaction should be the number one priority, if that means supporting small as well as big dealers then that is what needs to be done. It’s a simple philosophy that as I say again should be the priority of any company.

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:39 am

geoff douglas wrote:Firstly, please do not think I am trying to discredit G&L, I am only trying to improve the image and awareness of their product. I feel I am stirring the pot too much though so will make this my last post on this matter.
I cannot believe this is a one off event, surely many other small stores throughout America have had the same thing happen to them. Just imaging for example that 50 orders per year are lost in this way, well it’s not just 50 guitars though, it’s the friends of these 50 guitarist that also do not have the exposure to these guitars. In a cutthroat business, as I do believe this is, any business should be happy to accept any orders from any dealer, regardless of its size. It’s all about promoting the product and creating good will with guitarists as opposed to promoting the sales department figures. These minimum order levels are a product of sales department numbers, I can assure you this is correct. In business product awareness and customer satisfaction should be the number one priority, if that means supporting small as well as big dealers then that is what needs to be done. It’s a simple philosophy that as I say again should be the priority of any company.

Well stated. There are also probably others like me that aren't located near a Premier dealer. I realize that I'm not Tim McGraw or Jerry Cantrell but just a guy who likes G&L guitars.

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:14 am

I want to order 1 custom G&L direct to sell and if it goes OK then maybe I will order some more to sell .... sounds good , but I understand G&L reason for not wanting to do this like already mentioned .....

the store in question should have asked for a current USA price guide and mention to the rep they want to get back into USA G&L sales and then go from there instead of just plopping a order down and getting a response from the rep that you have to order 6 ....... as business owner myself 6 guitars is not anywhere close to a large investment for a business that's serious about being in business

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:29 am

rhythmicist wrote:
geoff douglas wrote:Firstly, please do not think I am trying to discredit G&L, I am only trying to improve the image and awareness of their product. I feel I am stirring the pot too much though so will make this my last post on this matter.
I cannot believe this is a one off event, surely many other small stores throughout America have had the same thing happen to them. Just imaging for example that 50 orders per year are lost in this way, well it’s not just 50 guitars though, it’s the friends of these 50 guitarist that also do not have the exposure to these guitars. In a cutthroat business, as I do believe this is, any business should be happy to accept any orders from any dealer, regardless of its size. It’s all about promoting the product and creating good will with guitarists as opposed to promoting the sales department figures. These minimum order levels are a product of sales department numbers, I can assure you this is correct. In business product awareness and customer satisfaction should be the number one priority, if that means supporting small as well as big dealers then that is what needs to be done. It’s a simple philosophy that as I say again should be the priority of any company.
Well stated. There are also probably others like me that aren't located near a Premier dealer. I realize that I'm not Tim McGraw or Jerry Cantrell but just a guy who likes G&L guitars.

You guys really have not been paying attention to the folks here that understand business and what it takes to be in business. You can't just take orders from anyone that wants to sell your product on a one shot basis. In todays business environment it takes an act of congress just to set up the accounting end of another retailer selling your product. It's simply not worth it to do so for one guitar that you are already making next to no profit on. I have a business license and tax ID and all the process needed to do retail sales. So does this mean I should be able to just call G&L and buy a guitar at dealer cost? Guess what...NO.

Stop all this nonsense and accept the fact that this is the world we live in today. It's not that the fine people at G&L are trying to discredit their own product or sabotage sales. They are true craftsmen building the best guitars in the world and we need to respect the way they do business. You try building something in a factory, employing dozens of employees, marketing and delivering a superior product through a dealer network and see if you keep everyone happy and can sell to everyone who picks up the phone. Your dealers will revolt and sell Fenders and Gibsons. then who wins.

dalto · Post by **dalto** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:59 am

This is such a non-issue I almost don't know what to say.

First of all, this isn't about not supporting small stores or the guitar owners in small markets. It is in no way hard for any guitarist, at least in the US, to get their hands on a G&L USA guitar there are dealers all over the country. The Premier dealers are not the only authorized dealers of G&L USA guitars. Most of these are small businesses so if you don't want to support the "big" chain stores you don't have to.

Having to have an initial order of 6 guitars at dealer prices to become a dealer is a tiny investment, even for a very small shop. The issue, is probably not the investment, it is likely that the dealer doesn't have a market for G&L USA guitars and is worried they will sit on the rack forever or take space in the store where they could be showcasing a more appropriate product for their target demographic. If that is the case, it probably doesn't make sense for this dealer to be a seller of G&L USA guitars.

This isn't limited to guitars, it is standard practice. For example, when I go to my local electronics store they don't have every brand of boutique electronics nor can they order them. They have limited selection based on what they want to specialize in and keep in inventory.

In this case we are talking about ordering a built to order guitar. These can be ordered from anywhere and delivered right to your door through a wide variety of dealers. Once again, many of these are small businesses if that is your preference.

It feels like this is being blown a bit out of proportion.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:15 pm

dalto wrote:This is such a non-issue I almost don't know what to say.

First of all, this isn't about not supporting small stores or the guitar owners in small markets. It is in no way hard for any guitarist, at least in the US, to get their hands on a G&L USA guitar there are dealers all over the country. The Premier dealers are not the only authorized dealers of G&L USA guitars. Most of these are small businesses so if you don't want to support the "big" chain stores you don't have to.

Having to have an initial order of 6 guitars at dealer prices to become a dealer is a tiny investment, even for a very small shop. The issue, is probably not the investment, it is likely that the dealer doesn't have a market for G&L USA guitars and is worried they will sit on the rack forever or take space in the store where they could be showcasing a more appropriate product for their target demographic. If that is the case, it probably doesn't make sense for this dealer to be a seller of G&L USA guitars.

This isn't limited to guitars, it is standard practice. For example, when I go to my local electronics store they don't have every brand of boutique electronics nor can they order them. They have limited selection based on what they want to specialize in and keep in inventory.

In this case we are talking about ordering a built to order guitar. These can be ordered from anywhere and delivered right to your door through a wide variety of dealers. Once again, many of these are small businesses if that is your preference.

It feels like this is being blown a bit out of proportion.

Ditto, Ditto and yes...Ditto. Can we drop this? It really is a non-issue.

Tom

helle-man · Post by **helle-man** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:05 am

Well said, Tim.

And for those of you don't already know, Tim's store Buffalo Brothers was at one time the largest G&L dealer in the world.

If all it took was 1 G&L to become a dealer, all of us would be dealers.

My 2¢
Will

John C · Post by **John C** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:47 am

This has been a very interesting thread. I think the bottom line is a communication issue in that the OP's dealer evidently didn't realize that they had been "downgraded" to a Tribute-only dealer by G&L until they went to order a USA for the OP.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:57 am

Tim,

When I say non issue I mean that it's been beaten to death on this post. Explained in so many ways that you would think everyone gets it. I in no way was inferring that the process you describe is a non issue. I too have worn most of those shoes and tried to explain the same thing you did. You have done the best job of explaining it so far, kudos.

Now, can we all just agree that what Tim describes, as have others, is the way and the reason most businesses of this nature do business. That is all I was trying to say in my last post, and the one before that. Oh, and the one before that.

Tom

Post by **Craig** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:56 pm

FZTNT wrote:Tim,

When I say non issue I mean that it's been beaten to death on this post. Explained in so many ways that you would think everyone gets it. I in no way was inferring that the process you describe is a non issue. I too have worn most of those shoes and tried to explain the same thing you did. You have done the best job of explaining it so far, kudos.

Now, can we all just agree that what Tim describes, as have others, is the way and the reason most businesses of this nature do business. That is all I was trying to say in my last post, and the one before that. Oh, and the one before that.

Tom

Tom, while you are entitled to your opinion, let's wait to hear from the OP before we consider closing this topic. Being that it is a holiday weekend, we might not hear from OP for a couple of days.
Let's wait to hear from rhythmicist to be sure that his concerns have been addressed.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:57 am

Did I say close this topic? No, no. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Tom

rhythmicist · Post by **rhythmicist** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:39 pm

John C wrote:This has been a very interesting thread. I think the bottom line is a communication issue in that the OP's dealer evidently didn't realize that they had been "downgraded" to a Tribute-only dealer by G&L until they went to order a USA for the OP.

John thanks for seeing one of the key points that has been missed in the "Here's how the guitar business works..." discussion.

This dealer had USA product in the past. Knowing this, I assumed I could order the custom guitar from them. The dealer also assumed they could order this because they had not been told they were a Tribute only dealer.

The dealer had not bought USA product in a few years but had bought Tribute products. If the reps are independent from G&L, maybe he didn't know about the "Buy 6" policy required to reinstate their USA dealer status until it came time to order the guitar.

Bottom line, it's not the way G&L sets up their dealer network that is upsetting. It was the lack of communication with this dealer before and after I tried to order this guitar that is disappointing.

Post by **Craig** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:00 pm

rhythmicist wrote:
John C wrote:This has been a very interesting thread. I think the bottom line is a communication issue in that the OP's dealer evidently didn't realize that they had been "downgraded" to a Tribute-only dealer by G&L until they went to order a USA for the OP.
John thanks for seeing one of the key points that has been missed in the "Here's how the guitar business works..." discussion.

This dealer had USA product in the past. Knowing this, I assumed I could order the custom guitar from them. The dealer also assumed they could order this because they had not been told they were a Tribute only dealer.

The dealer had not bought USA product in a few years but had bought Tribute products. If the reps are independent from G&L, maybe he didn't know about the "Buy 6" policy required to reinstate their USA dealer status until it came time to order the guitar.

Bottom line, it's not the way G&L sets up their dealer network that is upsetting. It was the lack of communication with this dealer before and after I tried to order this guitar that is disappointing.

Was the custom order you put together all options from the current dealer price list? Or perhaps wanting one of the special body woods such as Empress or other exotic woods or wanting a Nitro finish?
Also, can you tell us where you are located (update your User Profile)?

dalto · Post by **dalto** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:29 pm

rhythmicist wrote:
John C wrote:This has been a very interesting thread. I think the bottom line is a communication issue in that the OP's dealer evidently didn't realize that they had been "downgraded" to a Tribute-only dealer by G&L until they went to order a USA for the OP.
John thanks for seeing one of the key points that has been missed in the "Here's how the guitar business works..." discussion.

This dealer had USA product in the past. Knowing this, I assumed I could order the custom guitar from them. The dealer also assumed they could order this because they had not been told they were a Tribute only dealer.

The dealer had not bought USA product in a few years but had bought Tribute products. If the reps are independent from G&L, maybe he didn't know about the "Buy 6" policy required to reinstate their USA dealer status until it came time to order the guitar.

Bottom line, it's not the way G&L sets up their dealer network that is upsetting. It was the lack of communication with this dealer before and after I tried to order this guitar that is disappointing.

The first problem is how sure are you that your information is complete? Were you a party to the original agreement between the dealer and g&l? Were you directly involved in the conversations between the dealer and g&l throughout the years?

In my experience, when I have to resolve conflict between two parties there are always two sides to the story. When conversations start, the description I get from the first party does not match what I receive from the second. It does not mean that one of them is not being truthful, it is simply that their perspectives are different. How sure can you be that this isn't the case here?

That being said, even if your understanding is accurate complete, everything here seems like pretty common business practice. Lets say that the dealer called g&l, received a quote on the guitar, when they went to order g&l checked their status and let them know what the minimum order required was. Minor communication issues like this happen. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Personally, I haven't missed the point you are trying to make. It is just feels like a minor thing is being blown out of proportion.