Pawn Shop Mystery G&L

[bigbluesd]

I bought this today in a pawn shop for $100. I thought it was a steal until I learned from you guys tonight that the replacement neck is the wrong length. I have two questions.....

First, does anybody have any experience with the 22-fret replacement necks on eBay? Such as this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-22-FRET-ELE ... SwnLdWqECq

My neck pocket measures 2.75in and the heel width of that neck says 2.6in so it's close, but none of those auctions show the scale length of the neck which makes me nervous (even more nervous than the fact that they are generic Chinese necks).

The second question... any idea what model I have? Since the neck was replaced I have no serial number to work from. The headstock has Ping tuners which I understand were used on the Japanese models, but it's possible that they aren't original since it's not an original neck. The stamp in the neck cavity is dated "NOV 16 1998".

I also found this writing inside the body cavity.... it says "N RW PA LE6 TORT IWV" The only thing I can figure is "TORT" is for tortoise shell pickguard, the rest I'm lost.

The pickups all have different covers... the bottom one has a G&L logo, the middle is a smooth generic plastic and the neck pickup is a textured generic plastic. Have these pickups been replaced? See photo below for model numbers on the back.

Here are photos:

[Elwood]

Nice find,
I'd find a used G&L neck for it, a Legacy neck if your lucky. Those Fender knock-offs would need to be filled under the shelf
and you'd still need alot of work making it it right. Try a search on this site with the keywords "replacement neck".
happy hunting!

N RW PA LE6 TORT IWV =
Natural (body), Rosewood (fretboard), Legacy (Model), TortoiseShell (pickguard)
I'm not sure about the PA or IVW.

Elwood

[astutzmann]

Only a G&L neck will do properly for this body. I know that if you search the archives, there is a builder who does replacement necks.

I may be able to help you out. I have these, tribute legacy necks:



I bought them when G&L had a sell off and I was going to use them for a project, but never did. So, it would be a lefty neck on a righty body, reverse headstock, but it should work.

The necks don't have a nut, tuners, etc, but I may be able to help with that as well.

Both necks identical, one maple fretboard, one rosewood.

Interested? Let me know.

Alf

[bigbluesd]

Craig, thanks! Do you think this is Japanese or USA made? The tuners make me think Japan but the English writing makes me think USA.

Alf, absolutely interested if I can't find a right handed neck, what would you want for one of them?

[WitSok]

USA. Obviously modified. USA neck come up on ebay. As I recall tribute necks are different size, so either a USA or have one made.

[Fumble fingers]

I have a complete reverse head stock neck with locking tuners from a 07 Legacy I got off of ebay when my Comanche neck twisted , ended up getting a new Factory neck and don't need this anymore ..... PM me if your interested

[astutzmann]

that sounds like the way to go, legacy neck!

[bigbluesd]

USA. Obviously modified. USA neck come up on ebay. As I recall tribute necks are different size, so either a USA or have one made.

Hey Craig, you sounded really confident when you said USA... just curious, is there anything in particular that makes you certain of that? The neck is four bolt in case it matters, just realized I didn't mention that in the original post.

I did figure out that the middle pickup is a DiMarzio and is obviously aftermarket -- haven't figured out if any of the others have been replaced yet.

[WitSok]

The date in the neck pocket is too early for the Korean and Indonesian Tribute Series. I think Japan may have been making Tributes then, but I think that was for the Asian market only... So it doesn't make sense to me the Roman alphabet markings in the swimming pool route. Also I don't recall ever seeing pen marks in a Tribute cavaity - normally they have a sticker.

So unless someone was marking up a Tribute to look like a USA (don't know why it would pawned for $100 if that was the case), I'd say it's USA.

Cheers,
Dan

[bigbluesd]

Well it had a Stratocaster neck bolted on and the tremolo was starting to rust so that might have something to do with the $100 pawn!

[JagInTheBag]

You are one G&L USA neck away from having a killer guitar. I'd say $100 was a screaming deal! Keep us posted as you find a replacement neck!

[bigbluesd]

And the origin of my guitar gets weirder....

Happened to come across the replacement control knobs page on the G&L website and see that the toggle switch knob that is on my body is the same as this:



The website says: KNOB - SELECTOR SWITCH - VINTAGE BARREL STYLE - TRIBUTE SERIES ASAT

"These are the vintage barrel style pickup selector knobs typically used on Tribute Series ASAT guitar models such as ASAT Classic that have a control plate. Will not fit USA models. Sold as single units. Picture may not represent actual product."

But my guitar is definitely not an ASAT... I did notice that the switch itself is very loose and appears that either the mounting holes on the switch are either stripped out or the bolts are too small or missing a nut maybe? Not sure if they are supposed to mount with a nut or just screw into the switch, there's no nut on mine and the thread hold the switch close to the pickguard (just won't hold it tight)... perhaps it's been replaced from another G&L guitar?

Then I also see in the Parts store on their website the listing for two different versions of the tremolo arm:

"Used on all US G&L Dual Fulcrum Vibratos from the late 1980s through approximately 2005. This arm is characterized by its raw machined satin finish with no chrome plating. Available in Right and Left hand versions.This arm will NOT fit current USA or Tribute Series models. "

OR THE OTHER VERSION: "This is the current push-in style vibrato arm to fit US models since the mid 2000s and all Tribute Series models with Dual Fulcrum vibrato. This arm is characterized by its chrome finish."

Mine appears to be the satin finish which would point back to a USA instrument. But then again the Japanese guitars seem to not exist in G&L literature and very little info is available on it online, so maybe they don't consider it part of the regular "Tribute Series"....

So to summarize about my mystery body:

IN FAVOR OF BEING USA MADE:
- 1998 manufactured date -- only non-USA series this year was intended for Japanese market, what are the odds of a Japanese market guitar ending up in small town USA? Of course
- English writing in the swimming pool route ("N RW PA LE6 TORT IWV")
- More english writing found on back of the rear cavity cover (can't remember what it said at the moment, it was three letters, will have to look again tonight)
- The chrome truss rod cover has "G&L" engraved in it (but not "Guitars by Leo" as I've seen elsewhere)
- Satin machined vibrato arm

IN FAVOR OF BEING TRIBUTE SERIES:
- Ping tuners on headstock (although it was a replacement neck -- I would assume though that whoever replaced the neck would probably use the same tuners that were on the old neck)
- Toggle switch knob that was supposedly only used on Tribute series ASATs (even though mine's not an ASAT?)

OTHER FACTS THAT DON'T REALLY POINT TO ONE OR THE OTHER BUT I'M POINTING OUT IN CASE THEY DO:
- Butterscotch blonde finish over what looks like a solid piece of Swamp Ash
- 2-1/4" heel cavity width (was the cavity depth the same between Japanese and USA models? Haven't measured that yet...)
- G&L pickup cover on bridge pickup
- My knobs don't push/pull (or at least they don't seem to)

This is obviously a Partscaster to some extent, so I guess it's not unfathomable that some of the hardware has been mixed and matched between somebody's USA and Tribute series guitars during the course of repair, but it just seems unlikely.

Was there any difference between the USA and Japanese model tremolo units? Maybe that would be the most damning evidence if there were...

Is there anybody in particular at G&L that I could contact that may be able to shed some light on it?

I know that some of you are probably thinking "Why do you care so much, stick a USA neck on it and call it a day" but I feel like behind every great guitar is a great story, I want to figure out what this thing truly is! Plus I don't want to run the risk of misleading somebody down the road if I were to ever resell it.

[WitSok]

I still am convinced it is a USA body. I did s search on G&L Tribute Premium Japan - the Japan line carries the premium name. All the picture I found for S type guitars had Gotoh tuners and bridge. The bridge in your picture is a DFV, so in my opinion it cannot be Japan and it is too early for Korean or Indonesian Tributes. Someone turned it into a partcaster which is why I would expect it is $100 pawn. I say it is good deal, it has at least one original pickup, USA body, and the DFV bridge.

[Craig]

I still am convinced it is a USA body. I did s search on G&L Tribute Premium Japan - the Japan line carries the premium name. All the picture I found for S type guitars had Gotoh tuners and bridge. The bridge in your picture is a DFV, so in my opinion it cannot be Japan and it is too early for Korean or Indonesian Tributes. Someone turned it into a partcaster which is why I would expect it is $100 pawn. I say it is good deal, it has at least one original pickup, USA body, and the DFV bridge.

I agree with WitSok that this is a US G&L Legacy body.

Is there anybody in particular at G&L that I could contact that may be able to shed some light on it?

Without the serial number or customer order number, no one at G&L is going to be able to shed any light on it.

[Katefan]

I agree w/ the others - definitely a US G&L Body. Tributes don't have pen markings nor neck pocket date stamps. Seen heaps of USA G&L's from that era that had black pen markings…. just Google G&L Legacy pickups and view "images" Since the pen marking's make reference to the tortoise p/g so I'd say the body, p/g and bridge assy would be all stock. All the pickups iMO have been replaced...The neck pickup looks to be a vintage reissue mostly likely Fender, the bridge pu is a Seymour Duncan (white sticker dead giveaway) the middle one not sure but it does have a US pat sticker on it.
Regardless, the guitar was or is a project guitar/frankencaster that somebody put together and perhaps they used parts from a Tribute Legacy or ASAT however bear in mind Ping tuners and the switch tip are very generic parts and aren't exclusive to G&L Tribute models.
What kind of potentiometers does it have? That may shed more insight.
Cheers,
KF

[WitSok]

I think I've figured out another piece of the mystery. Looking at the price book in the gallery from 1998, I'm pretty sure 1WV is for 1V neck with white binding. Still not sure what PA is for.

[Elwood]

I think I've figured out another piece of the mystery. Looking at the price book in the gallery from 1998, I'm pretty sure 1WV is for 1V neck with white binding.

That would make for a cool neck !

I see there is an Ash called Pumpkin Ash

[bigbluesd]

All the pickups iMO have been replaced...The neck pickup looks to be a vintage reissue mostly likely Fender, the bridge pu is a Seymour Duncan (white sticker dead giveaway) the middle one not sure but it does have a US pat sticker on it.

You're right, bridge pickup is a Seymour Duncan SSL-1 and the middle pickup is a DiMarzio HS-3. Still not sure what the top pickup is, no clues on it whatsoever.

What kind of potentiometers does it have? That may shed more insight.

New photos are below... looking at them versus what I'm seeing on the G&L parts store they definitely look American! So does the toggle switch.

Another mystery -- the writing on the rear cover says "607". No idea what it means.

Thanks again to everybody for all of your help, this is a great group you guys have going here. Hopefully I can restore this beast to its former glory and hang around for a while!

[Elwood]

Sorry for posting these as links... for some reason when I try to include them with the IMG tag the forum software gives me an error that says "It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image."

Right click over image -> copy image address -> paste url between Img tags

[Craig]

Another mystery -- the writing on the rear cover says "607". No idea what it means.

It is the pattern number of the G & L USA Trem Cover from Pickguard Heaven operated by Chandler Guitars, original equipment supplier of pickguards for G&L instruments.
See: http://pickguards.us/pricegandl.html .

[Katefan]

No worries - glad to help.
Yeah, the pots & switch are all US made and the latter is what G&L was using at the time so all the electronics are stock. One pot has a 1996 date code and another has a 1997 date code so all that jives with it being a 1998 model

The neck pickup has a grey fibre bobbin much like Fender was using in the late 60's but the centre hole is too small and the wires would have been plastic (white & black) coated instead of cloth. Should the pole pieces be staggered that along with the cloth wire I would say its a reissue Fender pickup but should they be flush then most likely not…

Cheers,
KF

[bigbluesd]

Right click over image -> copy image address -> paste url between Img tags

Ah! There we go! Sorry, forgot that Imgur strips the file extension in the share link it generates. Thanks!

The neck pickup has a grey fibre bobbin much like Fender was using in the late 60's but the centre hole is too small and the wires would have been plastic (white & black) coated instead of cloth. Should the pole pieces be staggered that along with the cloth wire I would say its a reissue Fender pickup but should they be flush then most likely not…

The poles are indeed staggered.

Thanks again for all your help!

[bigbluesd]

I emailed Ben at G&L about the cavity codes, very helpful guy... he says we were right on the money about everything except the "1WV".... it is actually "INV" and stands for "Inventory"... said that the guitar was built for stock and not a custom order. He has no idea what "PA" stands for though. That's the last mystery.

[Katefan]

Perhaps the initials of the person who categorised it….

[bigbluesd]

Does anybody know if this would be more likely to be a poly clear cost or a nitro finish?

[Craig]

Does anybody know if this would be more likely to be a poly clear cost or a nitro finish?

It's Poly.

[bigbluesd]

So I've kind of given up on this project and I'm getting ready to list it on eBay, I stripped and sanded the finish, all parts are still intact. Any idea what a good list price would be for this body with all hardware (except the neck)?

[Elwood]

I'd try for 150-200, good luck!