1991 ASAT? 1980 F-100? commemorative ASAT?

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:42 pm

Hi, found this ASAT signature for sale but can't find any build info on it. It has serial number G027951, not 100% sure on the last digit but a three bolt neck, Leo signature and three pups that I am unsure of. I think it's a 1991. I can get it for under a grand but what do you all think of the value and what is the pedigree? Thanks for the help, here are some pics, I hope they are big enough to provide enough detail...Tom

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:54 pm

Since it's been modded, I'd put the value between 600 and 700.
I'd want to see under the hood, and maybe a closeup of the replaced nut to make sure
it was done cleanly.
The 5 way switch will take out the option of the neck and bridge MFD's together,
and there wouldn't be humcancelling at both position 2 and 4...only one of those depending on how the
middle pickup is magnetically oriented.
Is the chrome bridge original (is it a 'special'), or was an earlier neck plate used on a
mid 90's ASAT? I'd want to see the date stamps.

...so there are a few yellow flags.

ebay link

Also,the string trees aren't original-

cho · Post by **cho** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:38 pm

Is that a tele bridge pickup in the middle? Crazy! I have never seen that in a guitar before. Not sure how it would work for the 2 and 4 positions, but it might sound great by itself...

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:31 pm

I see it went for 581,

Tom, did you get it??

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:43 am

No Elwood, I did not get it. It looked a bit to wonky for me and I didn't want to buy someone else's Frankeinstien Monster if you know what I mean. I have also ran across a couple 81 F-100's and again, one looks fishy. It;s also on eBay but for $1900.00 Only two pics and the seller said there was no serial number. You can't make out any number on the bridge plate so I asked him to look there for it. Has;t gotten back to me yet, It seems quite shiny for an 81 F-100 to me and I am not sure what years they made reissues. I kind of get an uneasy feeling when these things look too clean. Maybe you guys can have a look and give me your thoughts? You were of great help on the last one and kept me away from a potential mistake. One of my next look is going to be the gold commemorative ASAT. I just love the triple binding on that thing. I know I could order a custom one and pay as much but without the provenance, although I don't believe the gold is still an option.

So here are a few picks of this new F-100...see what you think. Thanks hope it's enough to work with...Tom

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:07 am

You can buy 3 F-100's for the price that seller wants.
The prices on those fluctuate a bit and sometimes go for less than $500.
...and they ARE fun to play!

Maybe a commemorative owner can give you some input.
I wouldn't mind having one, the one on ebay doesn't seem outrageously priced
if it's all there and working good.

There have been some good deals recently, I bet your patience will pay off...
of course it'll be hard to stop once the G&L bug bites.
It can be done...you just have to grab one and play instead of surfing ebay

I've been there...so I'll shut up

elwood

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:01 am

Older F100's I seen on epay are far less than a 1000.00 for nice one ..... I would be patient

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:30 am

I agree with Elwood and Fumble. Wait it out and there will be one popping up with a better price-quality ratio. BTW, I believe this F-100 currently to be the most expensive listed.

- Jos

SouthpawGuy · Post by **SouthpawGuy** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:39 am

I would agree, $1900 for an F-100 is nuts. Check out the Guitar Center used site, they often pop up there.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:29 pm

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I do want to get an F-100 eventually but did think this one was overpriced. So you all think this is a legit '81 guitar? It looks way too nice for a guitar that old.
I will keep looking, meanwhile I enjoy my three G&L guitars and look for more. Also looking for a decent condition/price '65 Fender mustang or dos sonic II.
Thanks again...Tom

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:58 pm

It's possible the bridge assembly was changed if there's no serial on it,
but with little or no wear on everything else,that'd be strange.
The pictures are sort of dark and could be hiding those hairline cracks
that nitro likes to do over time...maybe he doesn't really want to sell it

cheers

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:26 pm

He said he was going to the storage unit to check the serial number. I told him where it should be. He may not know much about these guitars or is perhaps hiding something. You are right though, I have found two F-100's for $700 and $600 and I am looking into them. One of them is a series one. What was the bridge they put on those back then. This one appears to be all brass?

Tooslowhand · Post by **Tooslowhand** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:05 pm

There's an F100 Series 1 for sale on GC used site in Portsmouth for $599.

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:38 pm

FZTNT wrote: What was the bridge they put on those back then. This one appears to be all brass?

The first few years the only options were the dual fulcrum vibrato or the saddlelock hardtail.
Later when the Kahler's came out, that was an option. I don't think there was any stock options that could
be described as "all brass".Gotta pic or a link?

(I like the black beater with the maple neck on ebay)

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:50 pm

I saw the F-100 on Guitar Center. Here's the link:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/GL/F-1 ... -Guitar.gc

I also saw the black one on Ebay. No doubt it's original but not in great shape, lots of checking etc. It sold earlier today for $571. I would prefer one in better shape and an ebony fingerboard.
The one on GC is said to be a series one. They had another one that disappeared earlier, probably sold locally or something. I don't know about the one that's left at the link above. Check it out if you have time and let me know what is going on with that bridge. Originality is very important to me. I'm sure I'll come up with one eventually.

Thanks much, you guys are great and I truly appreciate your input. Tom

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:27 pm

that F100 at guitar center has a funky bridge .... not sure what happened ??

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:34 pm

That bridge looks like a Washburn wing series(80's) ...or maybe Daion.
Everything else looks alright.
The early F-100's had saddles that were narrower ,so that mod might not give
you perfect string alignment.Even a new saddlelock bridge wouldn't match the original specs.

Interesting how the saddles are pegged to the end almost, I had the same problem on my Washburn Falcon,
the Low E couldn't intonate even with removing the saddle spring,this was with .009 -.046 EB slinkys,
heavy strings wouldn't be an option.

That does have the early slot style pole pieces, somewhat rare and was a feature in the original patent.
Wether the slot alignment (paralell or perpendicular) made an audible change hasn't been discussed much,
so it probably doesn't...but in a studio maybe you can hear it.

cho · Post by **cho** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:31 am

Elwood,
Yeah, I still have my Washburn Falcon. It was my only guitar for the first 10 years of my guitar playing. I had the same problem with the intonation on the E-string. Do you still have your Falcon? (Sorry to hijack the thread...) I replaced the pickups after 10 years, (with a SD Pearly gates and '59), and it sounded 10 times better!

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:25 pm

Elwood wrote:It's possible the bridge assembly was changed if there's no serial on it,
but with little or no wear on everything else,that'd be strange.
The pictures are sort of dark and could be hiding those hairline cracks
that nitro likes to do over time...maybe he doesn't really want to sell it

cheers

Here's the follow up: The seller of this F-100 went to his storage unit and found the serial number on the bridge to be G003058. So it does appear to be an "81 in quite good condition. He also stated that after holding it in his hands he may not really want to sell it (Wouldn't either) He then proceeded to jack the price up to $9750.00. Yes, that's not a typo, $9750.00. I thanked him for the update and said don't sell it but you'll never get that price. So my best goes on. There was a second F-100 on Guitar Center for $700 but before I could even think about it was gone. I'll keep looking and glad to own three G&L's for now. Would like to find a ASAT commemorative with all the gold. One guy had one on Ebay for around $2500.00 and said it was the one from the cover of The Leo's Legacy book by Paul Bechtoldt. It sure looks like it though. In great shape even with the original gold strings. It went away the other day for no stated reason but was still on Reverb. Now it's not on Reverb either. Olivia's Vintage has one on Reverb for $2600 and there's another on Ebay for $1700. What do you guys think the value of these guitars are as a collector thing. The reviews tell me that you can get a better sounding ASAT for mush less but this thing is gorgeous and I know some of you own them. Of course the 7 super rare ones are not available for sale in my range but I would like to own one of the regular ones some day.

hey, I know my post is kind of all over the place but I do appreciate all the input I get. I also know all you guys love to talk about these guitars. Never found a more pleasant and accommodating group on the web.

Cheers, Tom

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:53 pm

Hey Tom,

In this post member "louweed" was asking about the value of what I think is the very same F-100 as above. I listed a price range there which would be somewhere between $850 and $1,075 for on in Excellent condition. If one zero could be scratched, the right zero mind you, the asking price would be ballpark

I watched both these Comm's too and the asking prices were very reasonable and typical. The Blue Book lists them for a higher price (about $3k) when in Mint condition and Excellent condition is on the mark ($2,500). So I would say $1,700 is a good deal if the condition of the guitar is Very Good to Excellent. That asking price is in line with a Comm in Good condition.

These Comms sound really great and show impeccable workmanship. But I agree you can get a 3-bolt Classic that sounds as good for much less. So now it depends where you fall on the spectrum between collector and player. I am fortunate enough to have 2 Lacewoods and 2 Comms but also have a double bound Classic Signature from October '91 that is absolute killer in the sound department. These guitars are worth looking for.

- Jos

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:42 am

cho wrote:Elwood,
Yeah, I still have my Washburn Falcon. It was my only guitar for the first 10 years of my guitar playing. I had the same problem with the intonation on the E-string. Do you still have your Falcon? (Sorry to hijack the thread...) I replaced the pickups after 10 years, (with a SD Pearly gates and '59), and it sounded 10 times better!

My first was an eagle($285 new in 1981)...and I still crave one just 'cuz now it's in my DNA. I had no idea about intonation
back then, I just thought I sucked...that's the first thing I teach a new guitarist now

So I bought a nice falcon a while back and realized they weren't quite right and pretty unbalanced sitting down.
So I sold it. I still crave a white eagle with the pearl binding. I'd probably change the pups and do some work on the
E saddle.
/hijack

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:05 pm

yowhatsshakin wrote:Hey Tom,

In this post member "louweed" was asking about the value of what I think is the very same F-100 as above. I listed a price range there which would be somewhere between $850 and $1,075 for on in Excellent condition. If one zero could be scratched, the right zero mind you, the asking price would be ballpark

I watched both these Comm's too and the asking prices were very reasonable and typical. The Blue Book lists them for a higher price (about $3k) when in Mint condition and Excellent condition is on the mark ($2,500). So I would say $1,700 is a good deal if the condition of the guitar is Very Good to Excellent. That asking price is in line with a Comm in Good condition.

These Comms sound really great and show impeccable workmanship. But I agree you can get a 3-bolt Classic that sounds as good for much less. So now it depends where you fall on the spectrum between collector and player. I am fortunate enough to have 2 Lacewoods and 2 Comms but also have a double bound Classic Signature from October '91 that is absolute killer in the sound department. These guitars are worth looking for.

- Jos

Thanks Jos, yes that guy is the seller from Ebay I was referring to. Nice enough guy but not gonna get what he is asking now. He did say he had a couple vintage Fenders in storage too and would check to see what they are and get back to me. Sounds odd that he doesn't know what he has. maybe he's selling for someone else.

As for the Comm edition, I love the Lacewood but way above my pay scale even if one was for sale. I don't know what happened to the one that still had the gold strings for $2.5K. It was not listed as sold on either Ebay or Reverb. Could be that another member on this forum scooped it up from under me...I am looking at it for more of a collector point of view so I'm unsettled as to what I would pay. That one was gorgeous and in great shape and if it was indeed the one from the book cover it might have a little more cred than another one in similar condition. I really like the double binding and the neck binding, its a cool look that you don't see often. Ever heard of counterfeit versions of these floating around? I was disturbed to find that someone is selling the headstock decals for this and even the signature decals on Ebay. Scares me a bit but what have you come across?

Cool info though, thanks. I had told the seller of that Comm about this forum and was glad to see he too checked with the experts.

Cheers, Tom

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:42 pm

FZTNT wrote:Ever heard of counterfeit versions of these floating around? I was disturbed to find that someone is selling the headstock decals for this and even the signature decals on Ebay. Scares me a bit but what have you come across?

Hi Tom,

I do not know of any counterfeits as far as Commemoratives go. Broadcasters seem to be more popular there. You'd still need a "BC" neck plate and a (facsimile) of the inspection sticker but given the all Black look, the rest is fairly easy.

Does not mean there aren't a couple interesting stories. For instance, I own Commemorative ASAT #29 which I acquired from a very reputable collector. The sales log indicates this instrument originally saw life in as part of invoice #4890 entered 11-18-1991 and had a rosewood board. But it was apparently returned to the factory and the neck plate was reused on a Comm with maple board assembled in May 1993!

One of the interesting aspects of Commemoratives #97 is that the COA states "of 350" whereas its neck plate still have "of 1000". I believe that to be similarly true for #139 but the reverb.com listing does not include a picture of the COA to prove that unequivocally. However, all others I have seen have seen, including the object of your desire (#132), have "of 1000" on both COA and neck plate. Of course the COA is supposed to have the gold embossed seal instead of the blue flat-print seal found on the current COA. I wouldn't get a Comm where that piece of paper is missing or really demand a lower price.

- Jos

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:01 am

yowhatsshakin wrote:
FZTNT wrote:Ever heard of counterfeit versions of these floating around? I was disturbed to find that someone is selling the headstock decals for this and even the signature decals on Ebay. Scares me a bit but what have you come across?
Hi Tom,

I do not know of any counterfeits as far as Commemoratives go. Broadcasters seem to be more popular there. You'd still need a "BC" neck plate and a (facsimile) of the inspection sticker but given the all Black look, the rest is fairly easy.

Does not mean there aren't a couple interesting stories. For instance, I own Commemorative ASAT #29 which I acquired from a very reputable collector. The sales log indicates this instrument originally saw life in as part of invoice #4890 entered 11-18-1991 and had a rosewood board. But it was apparently returned to the factory and the neck plate was reused on a Comm with maple board assembled in May 1993!

One of the interesting aspects of Commemoratives #97 is that the COA states "of 350" whereas its neck plate still have "of 1000". I believe that to be similarly true for #139 but the reverb.com listing does not include a picture of the COA to prove that unequivocally. However, all others I have seen have seen, including the object of your desire (#132), have "of 1000" on both COA and neck plate. Of course the COA is supposed to have the gold embossed seal instead of the blue flat-print seal found on the current COA. I wouldn't get a Comm where that piece of paper is missing or really demand a lower price.

- Jos

Did you mean #189 instead of #139 from Reverb in your post?
What you are saying is very interesting. I hadn't caught the COA thing #97 of 350. Do you supposed it's a fake COA or perhaps a fake guitar all together? Also, if you look at the closeup of the Leo Fender signature it appears to be kind of black and spotted sort of. Might just be a photographical artifact of some kind but also looks suspicious, no? It's also odd that this same guitar is on Ebay for considerably less money. The COA on #97 and #132 both have a gold seal however, the formatting is different on them. Is it possible that one of them is a reissue? The #97 even states in the first paragraph that only 350 were made. This is confusing, which one is correct? Maybe you can post pics of the COA from one or both of your regular Comms. Or even the Lacewoods as I suppose they might be correct and not mention the wood composition in the COA.

Thanks, this detective work is fun but frustrating at the same time. I will ask the sellers some questions and see what they say but would like to see an authentic COA too.

Tom

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:18 am

Ok, Went to your link to #29 and lo and behold, there was your COA. And, based on that, the #97 looks suspicious as it is different. I posted a message to the seller asking if the COA is a reissue as I understand they will do this and maybe G&L actually wrote one that says 97 0f 350. Perhaps you or someone might be able to shed some light on this. I also asked both sellers if they have ever taken the necks off to reveal the date stamps. We'll wait and see the response. Also asked seller of #189 if they have the COA.
Tom

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Wooohooo! Just bought Commemorative #132 for a few hundred less than the original listing. It appears to be legit and the guitar shown on the cover of the book Leo's Legacy. I am still however interested in finding out the details of the other two comms in our discussion. I was fortunate to, on a hunch, contact the seller of #132 and ask if he ever sold the guitar. He had not and we worked out a deal. I am super pumped!! I may have to stop shopping for these guitars cause my wife is a bit pissed off but, they will always be worth what I paid for them if not more. When I get this forth in the collection I will post some pics of them all together in their new home!!

Tom

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:21 pm

Congrats Tom!

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:29 pm

Here are some initial pics from the Ebay posting. More to follow after I have my hands on the guitar. Oh, and a couple of the pics of the strap I bought for this guitar cause no one will ever be able to pry this thing from my hot little hands!!

KenC · Post by **KenC** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:52 pm

Congratulations on the ASAT Commemorative!

I have an ASAT Signature Bass with a story similar to Jos's #29. I purchased it a couple of years ago from the original owner, who told me he had bought it new from a dealer in California in late 1992. I was interested in it because it had Leo-era features, and I had been unable to track down an ASAT so far for my collection of Leo-era basses. It turned out to have a body date of 3/19/91 (the last day Leo Fender worked), but a neck date from 11/92! After some detective work, I discovered that it had been in the dealer's hands for about 18 months before he returned it to the factory for a neck replacement. The person I bought it from must have gotten it right after it was shipped back to the dealer with the new neck. The interesting thing is that although the factory had already changed from veneer to slab fingerboards at that point, this replacement neck was built using the old technique.

Ken

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:13 pm

Pretty cool stuff. I have one of those odd ASAT III's from '97 in blue burst with a base neck plate. Not sure if it adds anything to the value but it is different. Serial number B052080.

Tom

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:26 pm

FZTNT wrote:Did you mean #189 instead of #139 from Reverb in your post?

Hey Tom,

Thanks for pointing this out. I misread the S/N as 139 but after magnifying the appropriate picture a bit more it is clearly 189!

Congrats of obtaining #132. I hope you get Paul's book with it. Would be a cool piece of documentation!

- Jos

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Thanks Jos. Yes, I do get the book too.

Tom

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:08 am

yowhatsshakin wrote:
FZTNT wrote:Did you mean #189 instead of #139 from Reverb in your post?
Hey Tom,

Thanks for pointing this out. I misread the S/N as 139 but after magnifying the appropriate picture a bit more it is clearly 189!

Congrats of obtaining #132. I hope you get Paul's book with it. Would be a cool piece of documentation!

- Jos

Hey, just noticed that you registered this guitar as seen on Reverb but you did so as #138 not #189. You should probably change that...

Post by **Craig** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:41 am

FZTNT wrote:
yowhatsshakin wrote:
FZTNT wrote:Did you mean #189 instead of #139 from Reverb in your post?
Hey Tom,

Thanks for pointing this out. I misread the S/N as 139 but after magnifying the appropriate picture a bit more it is clearly 189!

Congrats of obtaining #132. I hope you get Paul's book with it. Would be a cool piece of documentation!

- Jos
Hey, just noticed that you registered this guitar as seen on Reverb but you did so as #138 not #189. You should probably change that...

I will need to correct this since only the Admin can edit the serial number in a registry entry.
I have corrected this, so that what was serial number139 is now corrected to serial number 189.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:41 pm

Ok,thanks, FYI, there were three Broadcaster neck plates registered in there "as seen on Ebay" sometime in 2014. #'s130, 135 and 142. They are back on eBay so I changed the date to today. Honestly, I almost bought them just to keep them out of unscrupulous hands. Don't like this crap at all. Here is what the description says:

"Here is a new never used G&L Broadcaster neck plate. Found a few of these from Dale Hyatt's parts and am selling them now on Ebay. BC00130, BC00135, and BC00142. You may choose your number. Dale would hold back some plates. These where unfinished when we found them. I have applied the correct crinkle finish. These are original Broadcaster neck plates. Historically interesting."

Do you think someone on this forum might know who this is?

Tom

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:25 am

Craig wrote:I have corrected this, so that what was serial number139 is now corrected to serial number 189.

Thanks Craig!

- Jos

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:46 am

Tom,
Here's a thread that addresses the unused plates-
http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewt ... 22&t=11476

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:10 pm

So when is the sum of the parts greater than the whole?
That's what the seller 'gibsondependable' is gambling on...
The ASAT in your first post just showed up on ebay, parted out.

auction for body
How about just slapping on a black 2 pup guard and call it good?
Mr. Gibsondependable...you suck

(here's the original auction: link )

Fumble fingers · Post by **Fumble fingers** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:41 pm

Tom , guitar looks beautiful and I love your strap !!.... my Fallout needs one like that !!

yes Gibson di-spicapable is a piece of shyt ....

Elwood · Post by **Elwood** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:49 am

Be careful what you wish for I guess

Elwood wrote:
I'd want to see the date stamps.

FZTNT · Post by **FZTNT** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:44 pm

What a screwy thing to do. He bought it for $581 and is selling the body for $160 so that leaves about $420 or so to make up on the pups and neck just to break even, not even looking at whatever shipping he paid.. It's a modded neck so I don't think it's worth very much. I have no idea what the pups go for used, maybe you guys can answer that. So all in all I don't see that this guy could make much money on parting this out. Like you said, slap a black guard on and remove that middle pup, a small rewire and you have a '90 ASAT that's probably good for more than the parts. Oh well, I don't necessarily hold it against him, just think it's foolish and we all have the right to be fools I guess. Why do you guys think this is so bad? The guitar was already ruined by someone else before he got it. I thought it wasn't even worth the $581 once I found out how F'd up it was.

He has the neck and the neck plate on Ebay in two different listings. Neck for $280 and plate for $45. Also has '77 tele bridge pup for $140. Just check his other listings for details. The pic of the plate shows a different serial number but the description states # G027951. Not seen the other MFD pups listed...

Tom

cho · Post by **cho** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:20 pm

If you look at his completed G&L listings, he has done this to several guitars, including recent models that look perfectly fine. Too bad these guitars are worth more as parts than as guitars...

Here's my $0.02: I think G&L has an opportunity to offer a better selection of parts and at slightly better prices. ($20 for a SPDT switch....really?) This would make the margin even less for the cannibalizers.

And, (if you are reading this G&L), please bring back the DFS vibrato parts! You barely gave anyone a chance to try them!