awful tuning peg shape

[dreamlander]

I recently acquired an asat Bluesboy 90 in shoreline gold and absolutely love the the way this guitar feels and sounds. When I was playing, the G, B, and E strings kept going flat over time. I realized that who ever strung the guitar had left some slack in the string when winding them onto the pegs. Well I broke the E string while trying to stretch them, so I decided to just change them all and I figured I would do a better job stringing the guitar.
This is where I realized the tapered shape of the these pegs doesn't work well. They are tapered all the way to the bottom, unlike every other tuning peg I have seen which are tapered from both ends toward the middle. So when you are winding the string on the tension is always forcing the string down instead of forcing it against the last wrap. Make sense? Seems like it would work well in theory, but I have found what it does is force all the wraps toward the bottom making it difficult to get all the "looseness" out of the first wrap. As I play and tune it eventual does but it is rather annoying. I guess the the other tuners out there are made that way for a reason.
So this is my one gripe from an otherwise awesome guitar. Any suggestions to help me out?

[Craig]

I recently acquired an asat Bluesboy 90 in shoreline gold and absolutely love the the way this guitar feels and sounds. When I was playing, the G, B, and E strings kept going flat over time. I realized that who ever strung the guitar had left some slack in the string when winding them onto the pegs. Well I broke the E string while trying to stretch them, so I decided to just change them all and I figured I would do a better job stringing the guitar.
This is where I realized the tapered shape of the these pegs doesn't work well. They are tapered all the way to the bottom, unlike every other tuning peg I have seen which are tapered from both ends toward the middle. So when you are winding the string on the tension is always forcing the string down instead of forcing it against the last wrap. Make sense? Seems like it would work well in theory, but I have found what it does is force all the wraps toward the bottom making it difficult to get all the "looseness" out of the first wrap. As I play and tune it eventual does but it is rather annoying. I guess the the other tuners out there are made that way for a reason.
So this is my one gripe from an otherwise awesome guitar. Any suggestions to help me out?

Please post photos of the front and back of the headstock, so we can see which tuners you have.

Also, see: What tuners are used on G&L guitars (USA models)?.

[dreamlander]

[Craig]

Thanks for posting these photos. The tuners are Schallers.

Here's a link to the US Patent which was awarded to Leo Fender, which describes the reason for the tapered posts: US Patent D4046050 - String post for musical instruments.

Hopefully, other members will provide their thoughts and perhaps some tips they use when stringing up on these tuners.

[Fumble fingers]

looks like you have way too many wraps ...... I cut the strings about 2 inches longer than the post before winding ..... I bend the last 1/4 inch end to stay in the post then wrap/wind , you will end up with about three wraps around the peg .... that's how I do it anyway , holds great and stays in tune

[ShawnP]

I agree with Fumble on this one. These are the same tuners on my '85 Superhawk, they are very stable and have zero slippage when wound correctly. Run out the string and cut off about 2" past tuning peg. Insert into center and bend a 90. This will give you about 3 wraps on the peg and should solve your issues. That fist initial crisp 90 is essential to archieve no slippage.

[suave eddie]

It's important to maintain tension on the string as you tighten or you will get slippage. I can see on your high E that tension was not maintained. I've never had guitars that stay in tune better than my two G&Ls.

[dreamlander]

I will try less wraps next time. thanks

I thought the same thing about maintaining the tension as being wound, which is what I thought the problem was with the strings previously put on. But what i found out happens if you give it a lot of tension as I did, the taper of the peg actually forces the string all the way to the the bottom and then as you add wraps in pushes the other wraps up and this is what causes the slack. It seems a bit counter intuitive after restringing 100's of times in the past and never having problem, but I guess these have a different purpose.

I must say that I absolutely love this guitar. Paying $950 for a brand new beast like this is just great. I bought it blind never having played a G&L before and am blown away by its awesomeness.

[suave eddie]

I will try less wraps next time. thanks

I thought the same thing about maintaining the tension as being wound, which is what I thought the problem was with the strings previously put on. But what i found out happens if you give it a lot of tension as I did, the taper of the peg actually forces the string all the way to the the bottom and then as you add wraps in pushes the other wraps up and this is what causes the slack. It seems a bit counter intuitive after restringing 100's of times in the past and never having problem, but I guess these have a different purpose.

I must say that I absolutely love this guitar. Paying $950 for a brand new beast like this is just great. I bought it blind never having played a G&L before and am blown away by its awesomeness.

It's supposed to push the wraps to the bottom. You need the downward angle from the nut.
Take your string and cut it two posts past your target. Push the string to the bottom of the hole and then bend it over 90 degrees. Then start winding while holding tension with the other hand. I find it very quick and foolproof. some people do a reverse wind locking maneuver but I've never found it necessary.

[youtube]RQdn5vlVzx8[/youtube]

[youtube]HdJSSQ9S7Ag[/youtube]

[ShawnP]

I will try less wraps next time. thanks

I thought the same thing about maintaining the tension as being wound, which is what I thought the problem was with the strings previously put on. But what i found out happens if you give it a lot of tension as I did, the taper of the peg actually forces the string all the way to the the bottom and then as you add wraps in pushes the other wraps up and this is what causes the slack. It seems a bit counter intuitive after restringing 100's of times in the past and never having problem, but I guess these have a different purpose.

I must say that I absolutely love this guitar. Paying $950 for a brand new beast like this is just great. I bought it blind never having played a G&L before and am blown away by its awesomeness.

Congrats on your ASAT! Post up some pics, I do love the shoreline gold!

[dreamlander]

I will try less wraps next time. thanks

I thought the same thing about maintaining the tension as being wound, which is what I thought the problem was with the strings previously put on. But what i found out happens if you give it a lot of tension as I did, the taper of the peg actually forces the string all the way to the the bottom and then as you add wraps in pushes the other wraps up and this is what causes the slack. It seems a bit counter intuitive after restringing 100's of times in the past and never having problem, but I guess these have a different purpose.

I must say that I absolutely love this guitar. Paying $950 for a brand new beast like this is just great. I bought it blind never having played a G&L before and am blown away by its awesomeness.

It's supposed to push the wraps to the bottom. You need the downward angle from the nut.
Take your string and cut it two posts past your target. Push the string to the bottom of the hole and then bend it over 90 degrees. Then start winding while holding tension with the other hand. I find it very quick and foolproof. some people do a reverse wind locking maneuver but I've never found it necessary.

[youtube]RQdn5vlVzx8[/youtube]

[youtube]HdJSSQ9S7Ag[/youtube]

Yes, I know it is suppose to push the strings to the bottom, that is how the patent reads. I also explained why when holding tension while winding with this sort of taper of caused slack. In both videos you posted the tuners are nothing like what are on my asat. Like I said I have strung guitars 100's of times with the tuners you posted in your videos and never had a problem. Thanks for trying to help though.

[John C]

I will try less wraps next time. thanks

I thought the same thing about maintaining the tension as being wound, which is what I thought the problem was with the strings previously put on. But what i found out happens if you give it a lot of tension as I did, the taper of the peg actually forces the string all the way to the the bottom and then as you add wraps in pushes the other wraps up and this is what causes the slack. It seems a bit counter intuitive after restringing 100's of times in the past and never having problem, but I guess these have a different purpose.

I must say that I absolutely love this guitar. Paying $950 for a brand new beast like this is just great. I bought it blind never having played a G&L before and am blown away by its awesomeness.

It's supposed to push the wraps to the bottom. You need the downward angle from the nut.
Take your string and cut it two posts past your target. Push the string to the bottom of the hole and then bend it over 90 degrees. Then start winding while holding tension with the other hand. I find it very quick and foolproof. some people do a reverse wind locking maneuver but I've never found it necessary.

[youtube]RQdn5vlVzx8[/youtube]

[youtube]HdJSSQ9S7Ag[/youtube]

Yes, I know it is suppose to push the strings to the bottom, that is how the patent reads. I also explained why when holding tension while winding with this sort of taper of caused slack. In both videos you posted the tuners are nothing like what are on my asat. Like I said I have strung guitars 100's of times with the tuners you posted in your videos and never had a problem. Thanks for trying to help though.

I had an ASAT Classic S Alnico in on a demo about a year ago - it had the G&L/Schaller tuners with the split shafts on it. Like you, I've had guitars with other types of split-shaft tuners since I started playing in the late 1970s, and when I changed the strings on the ASAT I had the same issues you had. What I discovered in comparing the ASAT to the others is that the tuner shaft is marginally shorter than the Kluson-style shaft. I had to trim the strings a bit shorter that I would on the Kluson-style or on the F-style tuners on my old guitars. It wound up not being a long-term issue because I returned the ASAT - I found that particular one had too fat a neck for my tastes - and only strung it up twice (changed to my gauge strings, then restored the factory gauge prior to the return). I did not have this stringing issue on the previous G&L I owned for several years, a 2002 ASAT Special Deluxe.

[trem]

I never had split shaft tuners until I bought my Legacy. About the only benefit I see with the splits is the strings never getting snagged on stuff. I've never needed string winders before, and it seemed apparent that I'd need to get one to manage with these tuners, and I quickly discovered that clipping strings before winding is really annoying to me.

So, off they went, along with the string tree, and I popped in the locking version of these tuners. So now, no string tree, no windings, I can change an entire set in a fraction of the time, I can clip all six strings quickly at once, and fine-tuning is a bit easier (I use a strobe) with the 16:1 ratio rather than the 12:1 stock.

I know that doesn't really address your situation, (like others mentioned, less windings (about 3 wraps) is the issue), but I felt compelled to mention the locking tuners for any Legacy guys (presumably using the bar) who are on the fence about replacing them.

[cho]

I don't wrap my strings around the post. I've been playing for over 30 years, and I've never had a problem. I use the method described here:

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/repa ... anging.php

[tbonesullivan]

My experience with tapered tuner posts is mostly from basses, and they are awesome. they really help to maintain the proper string break angle over the nut. They do take getting used to, but once you restring them a few times, it becomes pretty easy.

Of course if you want REALLY easy just get locking tuners, but part of me loves having a good bunch of winds.

[Ahryn]

haha I like the link to the patents
#BlameLeo
but in all seriousness I think once you get the hang of it it can work well, I have an esquire copy that uses split shaft tuners and it took a while to get the hang of it.

of course on my ASAT I have locking tuners and locking tuners are just... the bees knees man

I could be wrong but I think if you get the same brand of tuners they can be a drop in retrofit or some such?
foodie for thoughts.

[trem]

of course on my ASAT I have locking tuners and locking tuners are just... the bees knees man

I could be wrong but I think if you get the same brand of tuners they can be a drop in retrofit or some such?
foodie for thoughts.

Yup. They are the locking Schallers from Stewart-McDonald. It took me less than 10 minutes to swap them out and 3 minutes to string it up. You just have to note that the EBG machines and DGE machines are different heights before dropping them in, as they are not labeled.

[showmethemoney]

Do you guys happen to know if the same locking tuners are compatible with the Bluesboy Tribute? I guess the bluesboy asat 90 that the original poster was talking about is USA?