Question : ASAT Special Pickup Volume - center setting

[tbalon]

Hi,

I'm the new owner of a 2007 ASAT Special (USA) ... I've had the guitar for about
a month or so now and I absolutely love it. Those big MFD pickups sound so sweet
and the guitar is incredibly versatile.

One thing I noticed and wanted to ask the board is if it is common for the volume
to drop when setting the pick-up selector to the middle / both setting ? My guitar
has a noticeable / audible drop in volume when I flip from the neck to middle or
from the bridge to middle pick-up setting. More so than my other electrics ( 335
and les paul )

Since there aren't many asat like this around, I wanted to ask other owners if this
is common ..

Cheers,
Tom

[suave eddie]

That doesn't sound right to me. I wonder if they are wired out of phase. Do they sound nasally in that position?

[SouthpawGuy]

None of my three ASAT Specials have a volume drop off with both pickups combined. It also possibly might be a faulty selector switch. Have you tried contact cleaner spray ?

[Fumble fingers]

my big mfd's drop volume just a tiny bit if your flipping back and forth , but it's real slight

[tbalon]

That doesn't sound right to me. I wonder if they are wired out of phase. Do they sound nasally in that position?

Not really nasal ... it's not a huge drop but it is noticeable.

[tbalon]

None of my three ASAT Specials have a volume drop off with both pickups combined. It also possibly might be a faulty selector switch. Have you tried contact cleaner spray ?

Yes, the switch is in good shape and the contacts are clean. It switches cleanly and there is no noise
at all. I suppose I can check the phase... Is there an easy way to do that ? Perhaps someone has a
wiring diagram I can check against the switch connections ...

[KenC]

I was actually going to search for any threads on this topic tonight. I found an ASAT last weekend that had a significant volume drop in the middle position. None of my other ASATs have been like that, although a couple of SC-2s have come close. That ASAT's tone in the middle position does sound out of phase, but I can't see any difference in wiring compared to my other ASATs of the same vintage. It also happens to be a lot brighter than the others.

Ken

[tbalon]

I was actually going to search for any threads on this topic tonight. I found an ASAT last weekend that had a significant volume drop in the middle position. None of my other ASATs have been like that, although a couple of SC-2s have come close. That ASAT's tone in the middle position does sound out of phase, but I can't see any difference in wiring compared to my other ASATs of the same vintage. It also happens to be a lot brighter than the others.

Ken

That sounds like someone may have modified the wiring, perhaps different caps etc.

I'm going to take a look and see if I can tell if the pick-ups are out of phase. The drop in volume is not
really all that significant, but I can hear it.. I've played other ASAT specials and I wouldn't say mine is
any brighter than the others, to the contrary, I would say it is a bit warmer but that's most likely just the
way I have the pick-up height adjusted.

I'm think this just may be a case where the impedance of the two pickups in parallel is lower and hence
there is a slight drop in volume....

[KenC]

I compared the wiring between the one with volume drop and a stock '86 without any volume drop that I can notice. They appear to be identical in wiring, caps, pot values and the resistor on the tone pot. I will post photos when I get a chance. I've never compared the circuits between ASATs and the early SC-2s, but I will also take a look at that. Like I mentioned before, I have experienced a slight volume drop in the middle position with '82-'84 SC-2s.

Ken

[GeorgeB]

Perceived volume drop from string vibration being naturally out of phase for *certain* overtones is absolutely normal and strongest when both pups are adjusted to identical output level.

[NickHorne]

A normally-wired Special will be hum-cancelling when both pickups are on.
Get the guitar into a position that causes hum (though not extremely close to amp / transformer etc, which could be confusing) when only one pickup is selected, then switch to both.
If the hum level goes down, things are normal.
But if it increases, pups have been rewired out-of-phase, almost certainly at the switch. Try to avoid removing pup covers if at all possible (you can tear windings if the wax has attached to the cover).
As George writes, slightly unbalancing pup outputs can give some variation in the "middle" sound. My preference would almost certainly be neck down a bit, bridge up.

[KenC]

I compared the wiring between the two '86 ASATs and an '87. They were all identical. I checked them against the wiring diagram for a '90 ASAT in the Gallery; the only difference I saw was that the '86-'87 examples had the bridge grounded to the volume pot instead of the tone pot.

Then I noticed something: the pickups on the ASAT that had major volume drop in the middle position were up so high that the strings almost hit them. My other ASATs all had the bridge pup fairly high, but the neck pup so low that the mounting tabs were almost flush with the pickguard. I experimented a bit, and found that with the bridge pup high and the neck pup down to the pickguard there was much less volume drop in the middle position.

One other thing I noticed about that guitar was that the neck pup is by far the hottest large MFD in the collection. I think that may have something to do with the fact that I couldn't even the volume out completely between the three positions.

Ken

[tbalon]

A normally-wired Special will be hum-cancelling when both pickups are on.
Get the guitar into a position that causes hum (though not extremely close to amp / transformer etc, which could be confusing) when only one pickup is selected, then switch to both.
If the hum level goes down, things are normal.
But if it increases, pups have been rewired out-of-phase, almost certainly at the switch. Try to avoid removing pup covers if at all possible (you can tear windings if the wax has attached to the cover).
As George writes, slightly unbalancing pup outputs can give some variation in the "middle" sound. My preference would almost certainly be neck down a bit, bridge up.

This is pretty much spot on to what I have ... I have a light dimmer that when active causes all sorts of noise
in my guitars ... With the ASAT in the bridge or neck position it picks up the noise, in the center position it's
quiet.

As I've stated the drop in volume is not dramatic but is noticeable. I like the sound in the center position, it
sounds similar to a stratocaster ( at least to my ear ) . The output from these MFD's is indeed hot ...

[KenC]

This is pretty much spot on to what I have ... I have a light dimmer that when active causes all sorts of noise
in my guitars ... With the ASAT in the bridge or neck position it picks up the noise, in the center position it's
quiet.

As I've stated the drop in volume is not dramatic but is noticeable. I like the sound in the center position, it
sounds similar to a stratocaster ( at least to my ear ) . The output from these MFD's is indeed hot ...[/quote]

The room I've been playing in has new wiring and LED lighting. The only hum I get is from the amp, and it stays the same in all three positions. I think I'll need to take it to a different room to see if I can get some 60 cycle hum.

My "new" '86 ASAT definitely has a Strat quack going on in the middle position, more so than any of my similar guitars (ASAT or SC-2).

Ken

[yowhatsshakin]

A new kind of "hum" on ehas to worry about nowadays is due to cellular phones. Whenever you here something like "ktah ktah ktah ktah" through your amp, take your cell phone out of your pocket and place it far away.

- Jos

[blargfromouterspace]

Have you tried swapping the wires on one of the pickups yet? That'll rule out whether its a phase problem or not.