G&L Asat special order

[stheri88]

Hi everyone,

Haven't posted in quite some time.

Ordering an Asat special soon.

This is my third attempt to get it right.

First one I ordered was semi hollow alder with 1 5/8" nut. Had terrible problem with strings slipping off the neck while playing it. Otherwise a glorious guitar.

Second one ordered with a 1 11/16" nut to try and fix that. This one was solid ash. Was very heavy at almost 9 pounds and couldn't take it. Also had problem with strings slipping off the neck.

Not sure how best to manage the weight and address the string slippage issue that I have only had with this Asat special model. Not sure if the bridge is the culprit.

Please let me know what body woods you recommend for Ito keep the tone up and the weight down and what luck you may have had with selecting the correct neck. Neck binding possibly?

Thanks very much,
Stephen

[lefty_major]

What did you do with with the first two guitars you ordered? Do you still have them?

I have had a Luthier replace 2 G&L nuts, both 1 11/16". One nut had major string slippage on the high E string. That one should never have gone out the door. On the other nut, the spacing was too tight in the middle with plenty of room on the sides. It was really too tight in the middle. I would only go with 1 11/16 or 1 3/4 nuts.

If you get an ASAT get the OLS (Original Leo Spec) cut. The body is a little thinner than the normal ASAT. Also order arm and belly cut to cut down on a bit of weight. You could go for a ASAT Classic "S" or ASAT Classic Alnico "S", I think they both still come with the arm / belly cut.

Empress wood is light but there is an upcharge.

EDIT: Oh, I see you want an ASAT Special.... So you'd have to pay a bit extra for the Arm/Belly contour. It's worth it.

[stheri88]

Thanks. I actually sold both, regrettably because I didn't know how to address the neck slippage issues.

I think the 1 11/16" nut is probably the best route to go also.

I will have to try the rear contour and front contour route for the weight as I am pretty set on alder at the moment.

Does the binding really add to the neck width? I also happen to be a lefty and I am wondering if the left asat specials actually use left handed saddles vs. right hand. Maybe this is the problem with neck slippage as I haven't had the issue on other g&l lefty guitars. Anyone know?

How does the empress wood compare to alder and ash? I know it is lighter but how about finishes and tone?

Very little online info available rE: empress. Only thing I found is that folks say it dents easily which to me is a really bad thing.

Stephen

[lefty_major]

I have an Alder ASAT Classic "S" (w / arm/belly cut) and don't have a weight issue with it. Mine is regular thickness so if you go OLS (which is free), you'd have an even lighter one.

I can't comment on the neck binding or Empress easy to ding. I never heard that Empress dents easily...

Alson can't comment on the ASAT Special saddles. Someone else will reply soon....

[SouthpawGuy]

I have three ASAT Specials, all lefty, and I can't say I've had any problems with the strings rolling off the fingerboard. ( I'm guessing that's what you mean by string slippage ? ). I bought all used and I've never had the necks off to check which number neck is on each.

The lightest is an ash body version, three bolt neck, from the mid to late '90s. On that particular guitar the saddles on the saddle lock bridge were off kilter, the previous owner had the action set very low, I adjusted it and all was ok.

The ASAT Special in question ..



As far as the saddle lock bridge being left or right handed the same bridge is also on my lefty ASAT Deluxe and Invader hardtail and I have had no problems with string spacing or strings too near the edge of the board. The locking screw is at the high E string on a right handed guitar, and at the low E string on a lefty guitar.

A righty Comanche hardtail


my own lefty Invader hardtail with locking screw just visible at low E string

[stheri88]

Thanks for the detailed info. Wonderful guitars you have there.

Yes, was the high E string on both my ASAT specials that slipped off the fretboard usually between the 7th and 12th frets.

I think it is because the lock is on the low E and pushes the saddles to the far end of the fretboard on the high E.

Tried resetting the necks on both guitars and adjusting saddle heights / positioning between both left and right adjustment pegs for each saddle.

Could this be a potential design issue that only impacts lefties?

Would love to hear from G&L on this.

Stephen

[SouthpawGuy]

The only time I've ever had a string slip off the fingerboard was due to string spacing at the nut, and both of those times were on Floyd Rose equipped guitars, an Ibanez RG back in the '90s and a more recent Jackson Soloist. I still have the Jackson, the stock spacing was a little wide and it was the only Jackson I had played, so I ordered a replacement locking nut assembly with narrower spacing. The thing is the stock one is still on the guitar, I just got accustomed to the stock spacing after a while.

Photo of the stock nut on the Soloist ... the high E is that close to the edge,



And on the hardtail Invader ... it isn't close at all



My most recent G&L is from about 2010 / 2011, the Invader is from about 2003 ... I wonder if something has changed regarding setting up lefty guitars at G&L ?

[stheri88]

I have wondered about the lefty setups at G&L also, but really it is impossible for me to speculate.

Seems like we could be on to something re: using a right handed bridge on a left handed guitar though. I wonder if that has ever really been looked at?

Especially, since this would support the issue I was having with the string slipping off the neck on the last two I had ordered.

Basically, just trying to do everything I can to get a neck that doesn't have this string slip issue and a light weight body on my next asat special.

I can't afford to keep buying and buying this G&L model and then can't play them long term when I get them which is a big disappointment.

I have also wondered about the pots that G&L uses on left handed guitars. Someone I know that is very familiar with G&L says that they use right handed pots for volume and tone just wired in reverse.

I am 99.9% sure that this doesn't work due to the audio taper on pots. So, basically, the pots don't work well at all.

Again, would love to hear from G&L on all of this.

I do love this brand, but really am at a disadvantage being a lefty in getting this info and my problems addressed.

Stephen

[Fumble fingers]

you could probably loosen the lock screw , loosen the strings and then put a .010 sim shim on the side of the high E saddle then install the lock screw to clamp the shim from falling out

[SouthpawGuy]

I have 22 lefty G&Ls, 7 of which have the saddle lock bridge. I haven't had any problems with strings slipping off the edge of the board with any of my G&L guitars.

As for the pots G&L do use right handed pots, wired right handed and with right handed numbered knobs on the lefty Legacy models. The only manufacturer I know of that uses lefty knobs, wired lefty with lefty numbered knobs is Larrivee on their RS-2 and RS-4 guitars, and those have been discontinued in the last year or so.

I can't imagine G&L has ever had a left handed employee testing all of the left handed guitars as they are produced ( if they do I'd like to apply for that job ).

[stheri88]

Thanks for the info. On the 7 with the saddle lock bridge, when were they made? Mine were in 2011 and 2013. Maybe a recent build issue for me?

I hear they are hand rolling the necks. Wonder if that would have an impact.

Back to body wood question. As at special with ash and 1 11:16" neck with ols body shape, front and rear contours, what would be a rough weight estimate - 7 1/2 pounds? How about if alder?

Any preference on rosewood board combo with alder vs ash based on experience

Steve

[SouthpawGuy]

Invader ... circa 2003
ASAT Special Deluxe ash body / maple top / rosewood board .. late '00s
ASAT Special ash body / rosewood board ... late '90s three bolt
ASAT Special body may be alder / maple board ... early '00s
ASAT III ... ash body / maple board ... late '90s three bolt
ASAT Deluxe ... late '90s three bolt
ASAT Deluxe semi ... early '00s

None of them are heavy, or what I would call heavy, although I haven't weighed any of those mentioned.

These days I usually prefer a rosewood board, more for feel than anything.

[stheri88]

I think all 7 of those were done before G&L started using the plek machines?

Not sure we are looking at apples to apples given the gap between yours were built and mine.

Nevertheless, this thread was only started to help me figure out what body wood to order and what neck profile to get.

Still would love to hear from g&l on any of this.

Even on what they may be doing different now than they used to building the asat special.

Stephen

[blargfromouterspace]

Don't know if you've read the description of the new Modern Classic neck profile but it sounds like what you're after:

"1 11/16” nut width with 1 5/8” string spacing allows a generous edge roll for superb comfort without string fall-off. Fairly slim with mild taper from 0.820” at 1st fret to 0.870” at the 12th fret."

The key is highlighted above. You could have a 2" nut and still have problems with the strings falling off if the nut slot puts the strings towards the edge of the fingerboard. I've experienced string fall off on the two ASAT Classics I've bought new - its very easily remedied by adjusting the saddles properly and a little polishing up of your left hand technique. Its unrealistic to expect a factory that churns out multiple guitars a day for them all to be perfectly set up, 9 times out of 10 there will need to be minor adjustments such to get them playing perfectly.

For guaranteed light weight I'd be going for an OLS spec Empress body. Alder is highly variable as is ash - my heaviest ASAT was an alder bodied 8.5lb one, despite it having front and back contours. I have a light solid body ash ASAT that weighs less than my semi hollow ash ASAT. At the end of the day the wood a solid body guitar is made from makes very little difference to the sound. I have a parts guitar with an 8 piece cedar body that looks like an Ikea cutting board from the ends, and it sounds every bit as good as a light weight 2-piece ash body. YMMV.

As for dents in a solid body electric, they aren't really something thats worth worrying about. Any sort of force that would dent a solid body would surely put a hole in an acoustic guitar, and you don't often see that. And how often does anyone bump their guitars into something that would dent them anyway? I reckon that has happened to me maybe twice in 20 years of playing and I'm pretty clumsy.

[stheri88]

Thanks. This is super helpful information. I think I need to try that neck profile based on the description.

People describe the empress tone as similar to ash which is perfect as far as I am concerned.

Any idea how well it works with the blonde finish?

Or is a solid color the better option.

Stephen

[SouthpawGuy]

My three ASAT Specials actually do sound different to each other.

This one is the loudest with the most treble or "cut". Not sure what the body wood is, the grain is not very defined as on most ash bodies, so it may possibly be alder. It is also the only one with a maple board, tone control on 7 for this one ...



The three bolt with ash body has serious sustain, almost like a built in compressor ...




The Special Deluxe with maple top is somewhere in between, it has an ash body

[astutzmann]

I find this discussion very interesting.

Have a look at my 2011 Asat Special Deluxe, mahogany with maple cap,



This picture was taken the day I received it, ordered brand new to my specs, #3 neck.

As you can tell from the picture, the alignment and setup was way off. I had the high e roll off bad. Look at the strings over the pickups, way out.

In addition, one of the screws that hold the neck onto the body, was stripped and turning in its spot.

I didn't feel like returning it to the store for warranty work (long story) so I took it to my luthier. He played with it and in the end, wound up rerouting the neck pocket slightly as the best alternative for the guitar, then he cut a new nut for it. He also plugged and redrilled the neck pocket screw.

After he was finished, its perfect. Spacing over the pickups and over the fretboard is perfect and it plays fantastic. And the neck fits tight into the neck pocket, not loose at all.

I've had this discussion with other lefties that there may be something to a lefty with that bridge in the way they are built now or it may be an anomaly. I just know my luthier (he's really good), couldn't fix it without a slight reroute of the neck pocket.

I also believe the way the nuts are cut, make a big difference as well, I have almost always had new nuts cut for my guitars as well as replacing the pots with really good LEFTY pots.

OR, maybe these are one offs, not sure.

Alf

[stheri88]

Very interesting post. I wish I had taken a picture of my two ASAT specials as well.

I clearly recall the same issue with the high E spacing being too close to the end of the neck and not aligning with the pickups properly.

My luthier only tried changing the saddles to graphtech and cutting a new nut to fix the issue versus the whole neck reset.

End result for me was two sold guitars because I couldn’t play them comfortable with the reduced neck width.

I think G&L may have an issue here to address, but it may take more feedback from the lefty supporters like us to get their attention.

Did look at the no-string-slip neck option, but it seems like it is a much thinner neck overall which doesn’t appeal to me.

Would like to know how that new neck profile compares to say a non-G&L guitar.

Stephen

[Craig]

Very interesting post. I wish I had taken a picture of my two ASAT specials as well.

I clearly recall the same issue with the high E spacing being too close to the end of the neck and not aligning with the pickups properly.

My luthier only tried changing the saddles to graphtech and cutting a new nut to fix the issue versus the whole neck reset.

End result for me was two sold guitars because I couldn’t play them comfortable with the reduced neck width.

I think G&L may have an issue here to address, but it may take more feedback from the lefty supporters like us to get their attention.

Did look at the no-string-slip neck option, but it seems like it is a much thinner neck overall which doesn’t appeal to me.

Would like to know how that new neck profile compares to say a non-G&L guitar.

Stephen

Regarding the string alignment, see this post in the G&L Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips: String alignment issues and a simple cure.
In Alf's case, there were other issues and G&L would have certainly handled it under warranty, if he had chosen to go that route, see: Special Deluxe Setup from the Factory.

[astutzmann]

I agree Craig, 100%. It was just easier and quicker to go my route, no knock against the dealer nor G&L...

Alf

[deytookerjaabs]

Well, the nuts are probably cut by the plek but maybe not. The thing about most G&L's is that, unlike other small US bolt on builders, they still do a real shallow bevel which takes down a good chunk of playing surface.

Exhibit A:



Exhibit B:



So, if you have a wide vibrato..or want one on the high E you'll have to adapt or figure out something different. The G&L bevel is 1/16" in where the other guitar is less than 1/32" in, so just a bit more room. Add to that if you had a 12" radius and are used to pulling your string on a 9" or 7" then you might be literally pulling the string off the G&L.

Oh, and as for not dealing with these issues you could just get a semi-hollow OLS with no F-Holes and see if your dealer will request a steep bevel angle for ya.

[Craig]

Well, the nuts are probably cut by the plek but maybe not. The thing about most G&L's is that, unlike other small US bolt on builders, they still do a real shallow bevel which takes down a good chunk of playing surface.

Exhibit A:



Exhibit B:



So, if you have a wide vibrato..or want one on the high E you'll have to adapt or figure out something different. The G&L bevel is 1/16" in where the other guitar is less than 1/32" in, so just a bit more room. Add to that if you had a 12" radius and are used to pulling your string on a 9" or 7" then you might be literally pulling the string off the G&L.

No, the nuts are not cut by the Plek machine.

Can you provide some context to your photos? What build year, neck number, and model are those necks?

[deytookerjaabs]

No, the nuts are not cut by the Plek machine.

Can you provide some context to your photos? What build year, neck number, and model are those necks?

The G&L is my ASAT 2015, #2A w/7.5" radius (the one that's being remade because of the indent). The other neck is just a Warmoth "Total Vintage" boatneck w/7.25" Radius, 3 or 4 years old. That said, I've seen a similar bevel on quite a few new G&L's I played at a local shop, as well as "Standard" USA Strats/Teles. If you use the angled bevel tool which rests against the side of the neck the taller the frets are the more it will take off the ends of the tops, and these are "big boy" frets! After a good fret level later on down the road they'd be back to 1/16" anyways. It takes away a tiny bit of playing surface but hasn't hindered me in the slightest. Some places use the plek for cutting nuts too, they do a good job from what I've read.

[Craig]

Thanks. This is super helpful information. I think I need to try that neck profile based on the description.

People describe the empress tone as similar to ash which is perfect as far as I am concerned.

Any idea how well it works with the blonde finish?

Or is a solid color the better option.

Stephen

Here is a recent quote regarding tone from Empress wood on G&L's facebook page:

Tone is a bit like basswood, strong lower mids but seems to have more top end sparkle like swamp ash. Super lightweight.

Clear and transparent finishes on the Empress quality wood G&L get's looks great. I didn't see an example of it with blonde, but
here's one with Tobacco Sunburst finish:

Here's an S-500 in Tobacco Sunburst over Empress, tortoise guard, white covers and knobs, number 1A profile maple neck with Light Tint Satin finish.

You should check out G&L's facebook page for more examples.

Because Empress wood is not on the Price List, I suggest you contact one the Premier US G&L dealers. They may be able to get you what you want.

Hope this helps.

[jfine]

I have a 2001 ASAT Z-3 semi-hollow with 1-11/16" nut width and neck binding. Feels great--I've never had a problem with string alignment. I've never played that neck shape without binding, but I don't think the binding adds to the width. Of course, mine's right-handed--I am left-handed, but I play right-handed. It's a shame that they seem to be having trouble setting up their lefty guitars--I hope they can rectify that.

[Craig]

Well, the nuts are probably cut by the plek but maybe not. The thing about most G&L's is that, unlike other small US bolt on builders, they still do a real shallow bevel which takes down a good chunk of playing surface.

Exhibit A:



Exhibit B:



So, if you have a wide vibrato..or want one on the high E you'll have to adapt or figure out something different. The G&L bevel is 1/16" in where the other guitar is less than 1/32" in, so just a bit more room. Add to that if you had a 12" radius and are used to pulling your string on a 9" or 7" then you might be literally pulling the string off the G&L.

No, the nuts are not cut by the Plek machine.

Can you provide some context to your photos? What build year, neck number, and model are those necks?

I recently found out that the nuts are cut now by the PLEK machine. See: http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewt ... =13&t=5780.

[Craig]

No, the nuts are not cut by the Plek machine.

Can you provide some context to your photos? What build year, neck number, and model are those necks?

The G&L is my ASAT 2015, #2A w/7.5" radius (the one that's being remade because of the indent). The other neck is just a Warmoth "Total Vintage" boatneck w/7.25" Radius, 3 or 4 years old. That said, I've seen a similar bevel on quite a few new G&L's I played at a local shop, as well as "Standard" USA Strats/Teles. If you use the angled bevel tool which rests against the side of the neck the taller the frets are the more it will take off the ends of the tops, and these are "big boy" frets! After a good fret level later on down the road they'd be back to 1/16" anyways. It takes away a tiny bit of playing surface but hasn't hindered me in the slightest. Some places use the plek for cutting nuts too, they do a good job from what I've read.

I recently visited the factory and found out that this has been addressed. You should see this with the new necks.

[Lefty]

I have 22 lefty G&Ls, 7 of which have the saddle lock bridge. I haven't had any problems with strings slipping off the edge of the board with any of my G&L guitars.

As for the pots G&L do use right handed pots, wired right handed and with right handed numbered knobs on the lefty Legacy models. The only manufacturer I know of that uses lefty knobs, wired lefty with lefty numbered knobs is Larrivee on their RS-2 and RS-4 guitars, and those have been discontinued in the last year or so.

I can't imagine G&L has ever had a left handed employee testing all of the left handed guitars as they are produced ( if they do I'd like to apply for that job ).

Carvin/Kiesel does. The controls are also "full range" on my Carvin. Wish other manufacturers did. PRS goes halfway - They used left hand numbered knobs on my CU24.

[Lefty]

Thanks. I actually sold both, regrettably because I didn't know how to address the neck slippage issues.

I think the 1 11/16" nut is probably the best route to go also.

I will have to try the rear contour and front contour route for the weight as I am pretty set on alder at the moment.

Does the binding really add to the neck width? I also happen to be a lefty and I am wondering if the left asat specials actually use left handed saddles vs. right hand. Maybe this is the problem with neck slippage as I haven't had the issue on other g&l lefty guitars. Anyone know?

How does the empress wood compare to alder and ash? I know it is lighter but how about finishes and tone?

Very little online info available rE: empress. Only thing I found is that folks say it dents easily which to me is a really bad thing.

Stephen

The saddle lock bridge is a RH part. On a LH guitar - it IS biased in the wrong direction. Try loosening the locking screw & wedge a sliver of plastic (like the end of a tywrap) between the bridge & the high E saddle. That will move the string away from the edge of the fretboard. Now, tighten the locking screw to hold the saddles in place. Good luck!