Bass VI Project

[darwinohm]

This is probably way more information than many of you want but here it is if you are interested.

I finished the neck for the Bass Vi conversion so I started the assembly today. For those who don't know about a Fender Bass VI, is a 30 inch scale tuned one octave above a regular bass scale. It is still tuned E to E but an octave below a normal guitar tuning. They are sometimes mistaken for a baritone but a baritone is 27 in scale and tuned B to B. It has a limited use but is great for what intended.

A couple of yeas ago I purchased a new John Mayer Strat with a bowed neck intending to use the body. I was able to salvage the neck by having it steamed. I am still going to have a little work done on it but found a DC Kunkle Bass IV neck on CL last fall that been used a bit. It was built in May of 2014 so it was pretty new. These necks are supposed to be a bolt on to the standard Strat body.

Today I had some time so the transformation began with fitting the neck and that was my goal for today. I have the correct neck angle, the string alignment is dead on an I will try to get a set of BAss IV strings tomorrow and complete the setup. I had some doubts about this but as things begin to line up, I felt much better. It did fit quite well with very little tweaking other than neck angle. The neck pocket fits beautifully. I used some lighter bass strings to do the neck alignment.

I had a spare set of F locking tuners and installed those. I had to fill some holes for the string trees and old tuner holes. This is an experiment so it will be very nice looking but not perfect. It will have "birth marks". I tinted it amber hoping to get a similar look to the John Mayer neck tint. I should not need string trees with the locking tuners.

This neck is 3 frets longer than a standard Fender neck and are added from essentially the nut area toward the headstock so the scale of the last 23 frets remains similar to an original neck.I have added pictures to show this. As you can tell I love projects like this as they are challenging to say the least. The biggest hurdles have been overcome and I am very comfortable at this point. Here are some photos and I will post final photos when it is completed. -- Darwin

The headstock



String alignment at the base of the neck and pickup



Neck joint to the body



Back of the neck



Difference in length of the necks



The bottom of the necks.

[Case24]

Cool project Darwin! Would you say you are more of a bass player or a guitar player? With an instrument like that you seem to have both camps covered! Very innovative of you.

[KenC]

Darwin,

Thank you for posting this. I am looking forward to seeing how this project progresses.

Ken

[darwinohm]

Thanks Case and Ken. I will be posting the final as soon as I get strings (probably today). Case, I can do either but gig as a bass player. I have many regular electrics and can you imagine sitting on the couch noodling on a bass .-- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Just a quick update on strings. The GC doesn't even know where to start. It is interesting that they are now selling the Squier Bass VI but do not stock strings. As usual, Strings and Beyond did the job well and I will have some La Bella nickle plated round wounds in a couple of weeks. During that time I may shave the neck heel a bit so I won't have to shim. We'll see how involved I get. -- Darwin

[glvourot]

Another great project, I await the the completed pictures with anticipation <---- Eager

[bassman]

Darwin,
I know that you are good at these projects and maybe you have already considered this but I have to wonder- Isn't the bridge in the wrong place for such a long neck?

Strings- Danelectro makes baritone guitar strings because they make or made a baritone guitar. They have to be available online.

Otherwise - I bet you can make up a set from guitar singles but you have to make sure that the replacement strings are long enough.

I think that the replacement neck looks great! I hope it all works out for you.

bassman Bill

[darwinohm]

Good question Bill, I had concerns about how it would intonate. A local fellow whom I bought the neck from has done both these and the Baritone neck. He claims they work great as does the builder. We will see. The big difference between this and the Fender Bass VI is the bridge. As I recall they used a Jazzmaster type bridge and trem but I haven't seen one for years.

There are several manufacturers that make the strings but no one stocks them in Minneapolis. I have heard that even Fender no longer makes strings for them. The string gauges are 26, 35, 44, 55, 75 and 95. I am going to sand the heel of the neck while I am waiting for the strings so I will have the action as I like. I am going to set the action about .010 higher than my normal six string action. By the way, I have checked the intonation with a strobe tuner of the two bass strings that are currently on it and the intonation is almost dead on, and will most certainly intonate within the adjustment range once I have the correct strings on. The closer to completion, the more stoked I am about this thing. I am curious how the John Mayer pickups will respond on this this setup. The other question I have is will it work good through my bass rig or will I need to use a guitar amp.

This is what retirement is all about! I only have one more restoration project which I may complete this summer and that will be a Lacquer project and should be an easy one. I have had it primed for over a year. I have to be in the mood to do these things so I am not on a schedule, another benefit of retirement. -- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Another update. The unknowns have been answered. I dressed the neck heel so it has perfect action within the preferred saddle range and I now have 3 high strings and the low E. The action is set up at .070 on the low E and 0.60 on the high E. The intonation is dead on with the strobe tuner and I have plugged it in and played it through my Peavey/Jbl15 cabinet. She is sweet. I suspect I may need to raise the low E action a bit and adjust the rest from there. This has a 14 in radius and the frets from 4 and up are like a regular guitar and it has a full 24 frets. The neck above the 12Th fret is very easy to play and it sounds like a normal guitar on a register lower. The tone is really sweet and the John Mayer pickups are very clear. I will finish when the new string set is in but this project has exceeded my expectations. Picking the low E with my thumb gives a very nice bass tone. No downside at all. The trem will work fine and the string tension will be very similar to before. Definitely some cool sounds out of this thing. The strings should be here in about a week.

This guitar will work well as a bass and some finger picking along with the bass notes would be the ticket. I will have to get better at that but I can see a lot of new possibilities. A Roland synth would really put this over the top. I will post some closeups when it is complete.

I am posting a photo of a Legacy, the Bass VI and the M-2500 just to give a perspective of the size differences. The body /neck balance is great and the weight of the guitar went from 7lbs 14oz to 8 3. Not bad. When looking at it keep in mind the additional frets are the 3 next to the nut. This retirement job is getting better!-- Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Great pic Darwin. And you can (finally?) nail the solo in Witchita Lineman

- Jos

[Case24]

Fantastic work Darwin! Looks really cool!

Greg.

[Elwood]

Well done Darwin,
I like it !
Here's a little local guitar string maker that has custom sets for all sorts of scales.
You could bookmark them for future options. Good reviews so far.
CircleK Strings

Watch those cymbals on stage

elwood

[darwinohm]

Thanks guys. Thanks for the string link Elwood.

And you can (finally?) nail the solo in Witchita Linema

And The Race Is On by George Jones! You have this figured out Jos. I am more stoked about this one than any other projects I have done recently. -- Darwin

[Ahryn]

A bass VI with a strat body is hands down the coolest thing I have seen all day.
When complete some sound samples would be amazing
I wonder how the in between positions sound?

Fantastic.

[darwinohm]

I received the LeBella's yesterday, strung it up and completed the setup. It is really a nice rig. I was surprised that is does give some good bass sounds and it is very versatile.

I fit the neck pocket so there are no shims and the saddles and string heights are just where I want them. There are really a lot of tones from this thing with the 3 pickups and 5 way switch. You can go from bass work to lead with just a change in the selector sw. I ended up setting the string height to .080 on the low E and .070 on the bass side. My biggest concern was if the loe E (.095) would go through the saddle grove. It did. I did have to drill the locking tuner a bit so the string would go through. I also had to add a spring to the trem. The trem works fine and the tuning is very stable.

Overall, I am elated as this worked out better than I had expected. The intonation required almost no adjustment from the John Mayer neck setting. This neck apparently was well thought out. The harmonic intonation is perfect at the 24 th fret. With the 12th fret being so far from the neck joint it makes the upper part of the neck very usable. After I use it I will post some sound clips. I am posting some pictures showing the saddles, bridge height, trem plate and string alignment. This has been a blast! -- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Ahryn, I just realized that I had not responded to your post. Yes, I think it is a perfect setup for a Bass VI. I never understood why Fender used the Jazzmaster setup as it had a marginal trem/bridge setup. This is so easy to use and stable. -- Darwin

[Fumble fingers]

dang , you ain't afraid of nothing !! ... great work Darwin

[darwinohm]

Gig Report- Long Post

I used this bass a bit a week ago but this past weekend was the big test by accident. We played a wedding dance on Saturday night with about 130 guests in a new city hall location. The room was filled along with a good sized dance floor. Typical new construction, block wall with standard ceiling height, probably 10 ft or less. About the worst setup you could find for acoustics.

I started the gig with my G&L M2500 (5 string) and I could not get dialed in like normal. A bit muddy with poor definition. It just didn't cut through the mix loud and clear. After the second set I decided to try my Bass VI. We started with the Race Is On- George Jones version and that is what I believe this type of guitar was originally used on. I was blown away by the clarity and definition. This guitar cut through the mix loud and clear. Most in the crowd would not know the difference although a guy told me it looked like a strat and he had never seen a bass player with a trem arm. He was an old bass player and intrigued by this thing. It does give a good bass sound and you can get into some pretty cool territory high on the neck. I finished the evening with it and our lead player actually liked it. When I was building this he was very clear that he didn't like them from his experience in the old days, but he thought this one really sounded good. He would tell me in no uncertain terms if he didn't like it.

I used it for three sets yesterday and used my 5 on the last set. It is a bit of a challenge switching between the two and I wouldn't recommend using it just for a song. It has a feel that you have to adjust to a bit. Someone who had only been a bass player may not like it as the string spacing is the same as a regular guitar. Not the room that a bass player is used to. I happen to do both so it just a bit of adjusting when I switch.

Tonight I just lowered the action another .010 to .070 on the low E and .060 on the high. I started higher as I didn't want to deal with string buzz. At these settings it is still not prone to buzz. Another thought for a bass player is that your picking has to be very articulate and precise as this guitar is very articulate and everyone will hear what you are doing and the close string spacing doesn't leave any room for error. For a guitar player it is nothing new, just lower and bigger strings.

The bottom line is that this has been a great experience, much exceeding my expectations and I will be using this a lot. For a bass player, the weight at just over 8 lbs is a real plus and the balance is perfect. I thought I would only use this on a few songs but it could work as an only bass. BTW, I am using LaBella round wounds and probably will not change to flats. I do have flats on my 5 string.

As a final thought I am thinking about doing another set of strings with a low B and tune B to B. I miss the low B from my 5 string but I'm not sure how a low B would work on this scale. I would essentially add a low B in place of the low E, probably a .105 and move each of the other strings over 1 slot leaving the high off and using a high B much like a baritone but an octave lower. It would be interesting if any of you have tried this and if you have, how did it work?

It does work very well through my bass rig and I added a reverb pedal for when I do "The Race Is On"

Way more information than you needed but I am stoked with this thing. -- Darwin