G&L Vintage tuners make me swear and throw things!

[harrypt]

I've got a mid to late nineties American Legacy with OEM style vintage tuners. Every time I restring this guitar my blood pressure rises. I've spent a year making notes about exact string length trying to perfect the number of wraps. I wrap the E, B & G through the slot once before starting complete wraps but it's still so hard to keep from overlapping and sliding down the tapered shaft. It's so hard to restring and it doesn't stay in tune as the string slides on the shaft.

I've never seen any other manufacturer use a tuner like this, by that I mean the tapered shaft. Fender vintage style tuners are hourglass shaped which forces the string to the center and forces the wraps together giving more friction. The G&L polished and tapered shaft makes the string want to slide down.

Searching the web, I don't see that much complaint so I must be missing some trick.

HELP! I'm completely over it.

Is the only solution to order the Schallers?

[KenC]

I'm not sure whether I understand where you are running into problems. G&L has been using the tapered shafts since at least 1982 (the year of the oldest G&L have have within reach). The whole idea is that the string will end up at the bottom of the taper, which gives you the greatest possible break angle across the nut.

I'm not clear on what you mean by wrapping the string through the slot once before starting complete wraps. I include an extra half inch when I cut the new string (in addition to how much I want wrapped around the post). I bend that extra inch at a right angle, insert it into the hole in the center of the post, and start winding. I keep some tension on the string with my fingers until it's tight, and if it starts bunching up at the bottom of the post I slide the wraps up with my fingernail.

I like to use a lot of wraps, but I have purchased G&Ls that came to me with two or three wraps around the post on each string. Those have held tune just as well as ones I've strung.

Ken

[Craig]

Check these two posts, one by Boogie Bill and one by yowhatsshakin. They are both in the thread titled: ASAT Bluesboy going out of tune and
have techniques which might be useful.

Hope this helps.

[yowhatsshakin]

Harry,

You might not know it but you more than likely have Schallers; the G&L stamped variety that is. So I assume you are referring to replacing these Schallers with Locking tuners. That is certainly a possibility.

However, it is not as hard as you might think to string a G&L with slotted machines. IMO, the hardest is always the high-E but there are some tricks you can use there. This is the method that works for me (with some added steps for clarity compared to my previous post referenced by Craig):

1. Put a 3/16" thick spacer (standard toothbrush or anything else of that thickness) underneath the bridge. This will avoid the bridge plate to fall backward when a strng is removed.
2. Work one string at the time working from the outside in. Start with the low-E, followed by high-E, A, B, D, and finally G.
3. Remove the old string.
4. Allign slot of the machine in the direction of the string.
5. Pull the new string through the string block until the ball end is seated.
6. Seat string on saddle, nut, and through slot of the tuner. Pull taut.
7. Taking the spacing between posts as the standard, cut the string two (2) post distances behind the intended post.
8. Push string down the hole in the post.
9. Sharply bend the string towards the high-E tuner, i.e. away from the nut.
10. Bend the string sharply away from the tuner buttons and wrap once counter clockwise around the post.
11. Pull the string tail towards the bridge and use you left thumb to push the string down on the headstock reasonably close to the post (or just just behind the nut)
12. Use your right hand for the string winder and tighten the string. Pressing the string down with the left hand serves 2 purposes: 1) It keep the string taut between thumb and post 2) it makes sure the windings go down.
13. When the string is reasonably taut, check whether it is still running properly over the saddle and through the nut slot. Correct any misalignments.
14. Tune string to pitch.
15. Stretch string by pulling it up at different places along its length and bring back to tune. Repeat this until string does not go flat too much when pulling.
16. Repeat for the next string starting at 3.

If the high-E gives me trouble, which is more prevalent when using thinner gauges like .08 and/or .09, I have a lollypop stick laying around that I sanded to the thickness of the slot such that I can use it to jam it in to keep the end of the string in the hole.

Hope this helps,

- Jos

[Case24]

I feel your pain. That's why I replaced them with the Schaller locking tuners from Stew-Mac. 10 minutes to replace the tuners and problem solved forever.

[GeorgeB]

I for one find those tapered slotted posts one of the best designs ever when it comes to getting the strings close to the headstock surface to help break angle at the nut.
Allow the string to settle to the thin end of the post right within the first turn or even less, pretty much were it wants to settle by itself. And use enough wraps for the thinner strings. Most importantly, apply and keep up (that's the key point) the aproximate final tension (by stretching) all the time, but start with low force at the beginning to avoid the risk of slipping.
You may slightly "un-polish" the posts with fine-grit sanding paper to have enough friction but I never felt the need for that.

[harrypt]

Thank you for taking time to reply.

I thought the OEM vintage tuners were Gotoh, so yes, when I said Schaller, I was referring to buying the locking tuners.

I was already using your popsicle stick idea, although I was using matchsticks. I've not mastered the E and B strings popping out, but I've gotten better.

My biggest gripe now is with staying in tune. When I use your method of holding taught and feeding the string low against the headstock, I get overlapping and criss crossed strings which makes tuning difficult. Therefore I've been trying to hold the string just up enough to feed it high on the post, without crossing the top most wrap. It's very hard to do because the wraps want to slide down on the polished and tapered post. I think my tuning trouble with this method is that the string slips up/down the post unless you can get the length exactly right so it ends against the headstock.

How are you able to feed the strings low without getting overlaps?

[Craig]

I thought the OEM vintage tuners were Gotoh, so yes, when I said Schaller, I was referring to buying the locking tuners.

See this post in our G&L Knowledgebase: What tuners are used on G&L guitars (USA models)?

Hope this helps.

[yowhatsshakin]

How are you able to feed the strings low without getting overlaps?

Harry,

Basically by using that string winder like there is no tomorrow!

When I feel my left thumb is in fool control of keeping the string taut, I wind the string pretty fast. Notice a brand like DR advices you to wind the string slowly so it stretches evenly and keeps the structural integrity of the string core and wrapping intact. But you can still do both. You just wind fast enough that your left thumb is no longer needed to keep the string taut, which is easily indicated by the thumb being lifted away from the headstock, go through your checks of the string properly running over the saddle and being seated in the nut, and then tune the string to pitch slowly. With using these 2 post distances as extra length, the number of windings end up to be about 2-3 for the low-E to about 4-5 for the high-E which should be sufficient in both cases.

This is the best vid I could find, although keep it mind it is a left Tele being strung up.. He doesn't pre-wrap the lower pitch strings but does it for the B- and E-string and for those even does it twice:
[youtube]oRsYdSrydy8[/youtube]

Hope this helps,

- Jos

[darwinohm]

I have to agree that the Schaller G&L tuner is not the easiest to string but it is worth it. The tapered shaft was a brilliant idea as it moves the string to the bottom of the shaft. The Schaller locking tuners from Stew Mac are drop in. If you order Schallers you have to be careful as there are several different models and the ones from Stew Mac are the correct ones. You may find that if you use a string winder as Jos suggested, string winding is easier and gives a cleaner winding pattern as you can apply even string tension while winding. I picked up a winder attachment for my cordless screwdriver and it works very well. -- Darwin

[harrypt]

The Fender is so much easier with it's hourglass shaped shaft.

When I hold the string low, the first wrap naturally goes around the bottom, narrow most part of the shaft against the headstock. Subsequent wraps cross over and above the previous (and sometimes back down) creating a messy wind. The messy wind causes the string to constantly shift around on top of itself as you tune or bend.

I'm no luthier but I'm not an idiot and I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong. But it must be me or others would be as frustrated as me.