"Rolling" fingerboard edges

[NickHorne]

Is it now normal practice at G&L to "roll" the edges of guitar fingerboards (other than maple) on any / all models?

[yowhatsshakin]

That would be news to me. AFAIK only the ASAT JD-5 had encreased roll on the fingerboard edges. However, that would imply that they know how to do it so there might have been a number of custom orders requesting it.

- Jos

[NickHorne]

Thanks, Jos. That what I had thought myself, but I have a bit of a mystery instrument in the house.
More in due course.

[yowhatsshakin]

Thanks, Jos. That what I had thought myself, but I have a bit of a mystery instrument in the house.
More in due course.

Tell more, show more …

- Jos

[NickHorne]

Ah, perhaps you're thinking I've got something special here.
Actually, this should have been special, but it isn't just yet.
I was wanting to get my ducks in a row before opening my mouth about this little difficulty.
But we will get there, and have a proper NGD when we do!

[blargfromouterspace]

This is something I've wanted to see on the options list for a while now, it makes a guitar feel much nicer in the hand. The edges on my Korina Jr are more rolled than on any of the others I've owned, but I can't be sure if this was a conscious decision by G&L or not.

And what do you have there Nick?!

[GeorgeB]

IMHO "rolling" rosewood/ebony FB edges is one of the easiest and quickest things anyone can do to their instrument to the desired level of roundover, required level of luthier skills is neglegible.... that is, unless you also have to deal with fret sprout but then it still is level 1 only.

Therefore I can't see much potential for mystery there, then again we'll have to wait what Nick is actually going to reveal...

[Craig]

That would be news to me. AFAIK only the ASAT JD-5 had encreased roll on the fingerboard edges. However, that would imply that they know how to do it so there might have been a number of custom orders requesting it.

- Jos

Is it now normal practice at G&L to "roll" the edges of guitar fingerboards (other than maple) on any / all models?

Yes, it's been standard for quite some time. I've answered this question a couple of times before, see these posts:

http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 6294#p6294
http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic ... 183#p73183

Hope this helps.

[NickHorne]

Thank you, Craig, very much.
Your information is the missing part of my puzzle. And I'm sorry this contains so many edits now - dodging the dreaded time-out!

Although, presumably, maple boards are not being rolled as a matter of course?
I have very recently taken delivery of two custom-order Asats:
A maple-neck Asat Special, and a rosewood Z-3.
Both have #4 (1 3/4" nut) neck widths.
And the necks are very different!
The maple board is fretted just as I expected, and after a minor correction for neck alignment it plays absolutely perfectly. It's fingerboard is NOT rolled or, if it is, the rolling is microscopic.
I had not expected any rolling (my ignorance), and I got exactly what I hoped for.

The rosewood neck is very rolled, on the treble side from around the 4th fret up to the beginning of the heel, and also, rather oddly, on the bass side from the 15th fret upwards. I had not expected this; my calculations in advance of placing my order told me that the #4 would work OK, but there would be only just sufficient layback from the E's to the neck edge. While this worked out fine on the maple guitar, the rosewood will not work for me, partly because the dressing of the ends of some frets, most particularly the 7th and 11th, has shortened them still further. The rolling is really quite heavy, and quite a lot of wood and metal has been removed. The nut has been cut to 1mm narrower spacing than on the maple guitar, presumably in an attempt to keep the E1 on the board, and the resulting spacing is nearer to a #3 neck than a #4 (although the nut is still 1 3/4 wide).

It will not play securely. Rolling a board on a full 55mm bridge-spaced guitar has to be done very carefully even with a 1 11/16 nut, and the combination of the 1 3/4 nut and the tall, medium jumbo wire (which causes the fret to effectively shorten more for any given angle of end-dressing) and then the rolling as well has just gone one step too far.

I am currently attempting to use the guitar with 0.5mm removed from the bass side of the low E saddle, to shift everything over a bit, but it's still not good. It's not a neck alignment issue; it's visibly all shoved over to the bass side now, but the E1 is still unsafe.

I'm wishing now that I had just ordered it in maple, if that would have avoided the rolling!

To add extra pain to the scene, it's a very special guitar! I was wanting a Will Ray model with a #4 neck but, for some reason, G&L were unhappy with providing that with a b-bender (although I can confirm that it does in fact work fine), and so we came up with a really special spec with the help of my dealer in England. He spoke with Will Ray, explaining the situation, and Will contacted G&L giving his consent and request for them to inlay his signature skulls into this Z-3 with the #4 neck. This great, super-fortunate result is the neck that has this sorry problem. The guitar has the WR back pickup and is specced exactly as I had been wanting.

It's not going to work for me. I probably should have gone and found out that G&L now roll necks (I was going by my old, 2002 WR for reference, and that has normal, square board edges).

So I will either have to sell this special-but-crippled guitar somehow, or else fix it somehow.
It SOUNDS fantastic, with a lovely growl in its bass and a very strong tone, which must be the quarter-sawn neck and stainless frets (yes, it's an expensive neck too) doing good things.

OR, I am praying, I might just be able to commission a replacement neck, still with Skulls, and in maple if that would avoid any chance of the board being rolled again. That would still look and sound fine by me. I would have to retain the existing neck until the new one was proved to be good (in case it wasn't). But I would of course expect to pay for the new neck, as if it was a damage repair; this would still be a better outcome both money-wise and music-wise than just trying to sell the guitar as it is. I am fervently hoping something like this could be possible! I have spent a lifetime in music, nearly 100,000 hours in music studios one way and another, and these two were to be my "retirement specials"....

Love the maple board guitar though!

Any thoughts on who might help me here?

[Craig]

Hello Nick,

I forwarded your post to Dave and he replied back that Chris Robosan will be contacting you soon. I just
forwarded your G&LDP email address to Chris.

Hope this helps.

[NickHorne]

Craig, thank you most sincerely. I am encouraged now that Chris will make contact thanks to your help.
Best
Nick

[NickHorne]

P.S.
Craig,
I would be more than happy to remove my recent long post from this topic at G&LDP if you think that would be appropriate.
I'm very grateful to you for getting involved on my behalf, and I don't want any reader to think I wish for any sort of shaming of G&L.
That's not my point at all.
I have saved my post as a txt file for my own reference, and will happily delete it from the forum, or you can remove it if you wish.

[NickHorne]

Dear Craig,

I can't possibly thank you and Dave and Chris enough for your help with this.
I just got home to Chris's email, and it looks like this lovely guitar is going to have a life after all.
What a huge relief; my blood pressure is back to normal for the first time since I picked the poor baby up!

What a wonderful result. Thank you most sincerely

Best
Nick

[Craig]

Dear Craig,

I can't possibly thank you and Dave and Chris enough for your help with this.
I just got home to Chris's email, and it looks like this lovely guitar is going to have a life after all.
What a huge relief; my blood pressure is back to normal for the first time since I picked the poor baby up!

What a wonderful result. Thank you most sincerely

Best
Nick

Glad I could be of some assistance.

Now, about your new ASATs: when are you going to prove that they actually exist???
(Tutorial: Posting photos).

[NickHorne]

Craig, I am so grateful for your help I hardly know how to express myself. You have been the catalyst in turning a huge headache into a happy ending! And Chris at G&L has been really supportive and on-the-ball.

As to the pictures, I have to master three things:

Taking a good photo of a Blackburst (dynamically challenging for the camera);
Starting with Flickr or similar (never felt the need before);
Posting the links.

By far the most demanding is the first. The other two Asats won't be hard.
Will do asap now, looking forward to getting some good pics up.

Best
Nick

[Salmon]

it looks like this lovely guitar is going to have a life after all

So what is the solution that will bring this Will around?

[NickHorne]

All I can say right now is that I am completely confident that this will turn out fine.
The exact basis on which it will be done has not yet been discussed in detail, although I'm not greatly bothered by how we get there.
I remain a massive fan of G&L's instruments. Apart from Danelectros and acoustics, they're all that I use now.

Inky (Yin), Blondie (Yang) and Old Silver will have their five minutes of fame in the porn section when I get my stuff together.