HELP!! G&L Legacy Deluxe Tuning instability with trem

[tholt2]

I'm having some real trouble using my legacy with the tremolo....

The slightest touch and it seems to knock it out of tune; this is particularly prominent on the G string. If i tune up again I get some buzzing on open strings.

I'm not being over zealous with the trem and am barely pushing it past a semi-tone.

Do you guys have any ideas what might resolve this as its not been a problem till now. i have just had a pro set up on it as well.

please help!!

[yowhatsshakin]

Hey tholt2,

The subject of setting up a tremolo properly has been frequently discussed recently on this board. Click on the 'Search' and enter setting up tremolo as keywords. You will see a fair number of posts, with yours amongst them. You still have to weed through them a bit but there ar some good ones.

But for starters, make sure you have stretched your strings properly, that your nut has suitable slot widths for the string gauge that you use (the factory sets up guitars for .010's) such that your strings don't bind, and that your tremolo is level in the default position. Also see this post in the Knowledgebase.

[tholt2]

I have read all the articles on here and that's why a posted my question.

The guitar was set up in exact accordance to the g and l manual so the bridge is 3/16ths.

I've streched the strings and keep re tuning with the trem in but then I get some buzzing on the open G. If I slacken the strings and tune up without the trem there is no buzzing

[yowhatsshakin]

I've streched the strings and keep re tuning with the trem in but then I get some buzzing on the open G. If I slacken the strings and tune up without the trem there is no buzzing

That is interesting. I assume that in the aforementioned statement you mean tremolo arm in or out. Is that correct? If so, does it make a difference in what direction the arm is turned, forward towards the neck or backwards)? If so, look into using 3 springs (if you haven't done so already) to make the tremolo assembly a little stiffer since apparently the additional torque of the arm is creating some movement in the whole assembly.

And the buzzing of the open G, does that seem to come from the bridge (maybe a slight burr on the saddle which you can easily sand away) or the neck (slight adjustment to the relieve and/or saddle height likely will solve this) or elsewhere (some 'un'-sympathetic resonance in the whole assembly that may be solved by tightening the set screw in the arm holder to 'detune' it a little).

Let me know.

[tholt2]

I've managed to sort most of the problem out by tweaking one of the three springs in the back cavity. It now seems okay when I use the trem to pitch the notes lower - the strings return to pitch - but when I try to sharpen notes by pulling the trem arm back all the strings go significantly sharp. I am only talking about the faintest off touches,literally adding vibrato using the trem.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[sirmyghin]

Are the strings binding in the nut?

[tholt2]

Sorry, what does that mean?

I have a graph tech nut.

[tholt2]

Just had a thought after scouring the net. Does it matter how many times I wound the strings round the post? I think, with this set of strings, I've done it more than I usually do.

[hazy]

Sorry, what does that mean?

I have a graph tech nut.

It means that the strings get hung up in the nut due to friction and "jerk" through rather than smoothly slide through.

To try to relieve this, 1) loosen the strings one-by -one, 2) lift the string at the nut, 3) take a lead pencil and "write" pencil lead into the nut groove and along the side walls, 4) repeat for all 6 strings.

If there is too much friction at the nut, the pencil's graphite may relieve it and eliminate the binding. It's a simple fix and if you do it correctly, there are no aesthetic issues.

Hazy

[sirmyghin]

Just had a thought after scouring the net. Does it matter how many times I wound the strings round the post? I think, with this set of strings, I've done it more than I usually do.

That is a possibility, I like locking tuners for that reason, no windings.

[Muleya]

Certainly try the pencil lead thing. I used to do that, but recently bought some Big Bends Nut Sauce...seems to work a bit better than the pencil lead. I also put locking tuners on mine. I still have some slight issues if I dive bomb, but using it for mild vibrato and that kind of thing it holds tune very well.

[californiakev]

I've had this problem! It has been my experience that these trems are a pain in the ass to get just right, but when you get them just right they work wonderful.

Having a "pro setup" probably means you took it to a guy who ordinarly sets up strats or the occasional floyd rose and probably got it pretty close but not quite there.

In my opinion these trems need some coaxing to get just right which is more than a normal guitar tech is willing to do in an hour or so. Assuming he got it pretty close to where it should be, it should only take some minor tweaks here and there to fix.

Be advised that I'm no expert, but I struggled with this for a while (a long while) before I dialed it in.

Regarding the buzzing: Try taking your fingers and pinch the saddle that is buzzing and push on it while wiggling. This has helped in the past for me.

Regarding the tuning issue, like previous posters have said, make sure you are using the correct string gauge. I use 10's or less. And make sure you don't have too many winds on the tuners.

I also use vasoline with graphite powder from the hardware store mixed in in the nut slots and even on the string tree this helps but you have a graphtech nut, so it probably isn't necessary, but it can't hurt. (nutsauce probably works great too)

I also like mine set up with the trem ever so slightly leaning back to give me more range with my trem. If the bar had a bit more bend in it, I'd be fine with a perfectly level trem, but it seems to work fine with it slightly leaning back but MOST people like them perfecly level.

I set the spring screws in the back of the guitar to be dead even to start with, then I play and bend a little, and if the skinnier strings don't bend easy enough, I back out the spring screw on the bottom(treble side) a half turn at a time or so just to ease up the spring on the treble side and it seems to make bends a little easier.
(also this may or may not contribute to the buzzing, so if it's already backed out, try to tighten or loosten it a little and see if that works for the buzzing)

Finally this is the biggest thing in my opinion is the two fulcrum screws that the trem pivots on. They can be turned to adjust the trem height.

You don't want to turn them alot under spring pressure since these things are metal on metal and can go dull and give you tuning issues if turned too many times. (at least with floyd rose types so I figure it's the same blade style)

What I do is get a 1/8 standard allen wrench (that's what mine is) and make teeny tiny adjustments to these screws until it stays in tune.

I'm talking SMALL, like you can't even barely visibly see the thing turning small. These tiny adjustments make a big difference and make sure to always tune the guitar and work the trem a little after adjustments to see if it helped.

You will likely get it where you want it, and then flub it up at least once but you will know when you get it there as the gutiar will sustain better and stay in tune with trem.

If the treble side feels right, but the bass side feels a little high, then just tighten the bass side an ittly bitty smidge and you'll feel a difference.

I have my truss rod adjusted so there is just a hint of relief in the neck. I don't want to go into detail about neck adjustments (i'm not an expert) except to say that turn clockwise means the neck will flatten out more in small increments but it shold be there already since you had a setup.

So basically it's like a combination lock, and you have to find the right combination to get it just right. But small adjustments is probably all that is needed.

[Craig]

Here are additional posts to read (found in the G&L Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum):

Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars.

What can I do when my Legacy Trem Won't Stay in Tune?

Set-Ups, answering some questions

Can you tell me which allen wrenches I need for my G&L?

Hope this helps.

[darwinohm]

Tholt2, the problem had to be identified before it can be fixed. If the setup and trem is set up to specs then the it is time to look for the culprit. I see two problems here and that is returning to tune and the open string buzz. That could be a nut that is cut too low, or a saddle problem. I have had open string buzz caused by saddles and it usually sounds like a sitar. If this is a used guitar, I would inspect the trem pivot posts to make sure that they are not grooved. I find the DF to be very stable and something is wrong here and that is what has to be identified. I would also check to make sure the saddles are not worn as this would also cause tuning instability especially after a deep bend. I assume that the saddles are level with the bridge plate. Persistence will pay off and hopefully you find the problem and then it can be fixed--Darwin