What exactly is Autumnburst?

[Salmon]

What exactly is Autumnburst? Looking at the LEII's in progress, it does not look at all like the Alnico Launch series. I do not believe the pine wood could account for the difference. The Alinico Launch examples are reddish-orangish brown while the LEII's are yellow-golden brown. And then there is the prototype that Xavier scored in the reddish-orangish brown range. What is the difference between Auntumnburst and Old School Tobacco Sunburst?


LEII Autumnburst






Alnico Launch Series
















Xavier's prototype










Old School Tobacco Sunburst
















I'd say the distinct difference in the last two Old School Tobacco Sunburst samples are the consequences of lighting.

[Fumble fingers]

it would be nice to see the colors all in the same light and picture ..... the pine sure does look good with autumn burst in the pictures along with the Xaviers flamed S 500 ....

[darwinohm]

Salmon, when first viewing these LE2 photos, I had questions as you do. I thought that the burst border was very light, almost making it a Honeyburst. What may be more important is that all the bursts shown on the LE2s are very similar and bursts are not that easy to duplicate. The Autumnburst seems quite different than my Asat Launch Alnico. Here is a picture of my Asat Launch and the Savannah Old School Tobaccoburst side by side.



I think the LE2's are very nice and the Lake Placid Blue with the mirrored pickguard is stunning. I would have never guessed that it would be so stunning. That is an example of seeing is believing. I would be happy with any one of the examples shown so far. -- Darwin

[Salmon]

I immediately noticed the high quality of paint application in the LEII bursts.

I suspect that the SC body shape is easier to work with than shapes with significantly different curves and especially when there is a sharper curve like a horn. On the LEII's here the dark border appears to have been applied carefully without haste unlike many bursts I have observed where the darkest color is applied liberally without paying attention to the way it effects the previous colors in the sequence, sometimes rendering the body nearly 75% black or producing an inorganic shape in the center like a trapezoid that does not conform to the shape of the body. None of the burst examples posted in this thread so far show those traits. IMO the darkest border color should be narrow and an accent like on all of these.

[Zippy]

Salmon, I've always thought too much black or dark color was often added to the bursts. That autumn burst LE2 is spectacular. I love my honey burst, but man that is nice. What an eye catcher.

Larry

[Salmon]

Aside from the effect of the difference in woods I sure cannot see any difference between Autumnburst and Old School Tobacco Sunburst in these two recent builds.

February 2014 Factory Photos:

Left "Auntumnburst" <= => Right "Old School Tobacco Sunburst"

[darwinohm]

Salmon, good question and I would ask the same. These two guitars appear very much alike, the one on the left may just have a slightly darker edge, very slight. Unless the factory has changed the formula for the Autumn Burst these two guitars look alike to me. Here is a picture of my My Old School Sunburst Asat Bass and my Autumn Burst Alnico Launch side by side. I have never thought the pictures of the LE-2s That I have seen were Autumn Burst but look more Old School to me. Who knows what they have done with the formula. Here are pics of mine side by side and clearly different. Autumn Burst on the left and Old School on the right. I personally believe the LE-2s that I have seen look Old School. Based on the Autumn Burst Alnico Launch and others that I have seen, I am convinced the Le-2s are Old School.

Edit: I had already responded to this post and only looked at the pictures below Salmons post. My second opinion hasn't changed.

[Salmon]

If there is any difference between them they are too close to be referring to the colors using two different names.

The Old School Tobacco Sunburst that originally grabbed my attention was the pecan stain like this:



Then it started getting reddish/orangish. Autumnburst started out reddish/orangish. Now both Autumnburst and OSTS are golden with a reddish brown border.

I think all of the versions are beautiful. However, the lack of consistency and calling something by a name when it looks exactly like something else is intolerable. When ordering a custom guitar determining what you will receive is like having a monkey throw a dart at a color chart on the wall. If something is built sitting on a shelf you like it or you don't. Who wants to order, wait and then receive something different than what they asked for?

Come on G&L!!

[darwinohm]

Salmon, it is confusing. My Alnico Launch in Autumn Burst is stunning, absolutely beautiful. When I first saw pictures of the LE-2 I thought there was a lighting problem. The Asat Bass is also stunning as is are all the colors. If I had ordered an LE-2 I would have expected it to look like my Launch and not like my Savannah. It is a good question. Maybe we will get some clarification. Formula change? I forget what I have done some times when mixing paint -- Darwin

[Craig]

Aside from the effect of the difference in woods I sure cannot see any difference between Autumnburst and Old School Tobacco Sunburst in these two recent builds.

February 2014 Factory Photos:

Left "Auntumnburst" <= => Right "Old School Tobacco Sunburst"

I believe these two are actually finished in OSTB. I will check with Dave to confirm which color finish is on the ASAT "Cat" on the left.
Earlier, I did confirm with Dave that the Savannah Collection Bluesboy-90 is finished in OSTB.

Stay tuned.

[Craig]

Salmon, good question and I would ask the same. These two guitars appear very much alike, the one on the left may just have a slightly darker edge, very slight. Unless the factory has changed the formula for the Autumn Burst these two guitars look alike to me. Here is a picture of my My Old School Sunburst Asat Bass and my Autumn Burst Alnico Launch side by side. I have never thought the pictures of the LE-2s That I have seen were Autumn Burst but look more Old School to me. Who knows what they have done with the formula. Here are pics of mine side by side and clearly different. Autumn Burst on the left and Old School on the right. I personally believe the LE-2s that I have seen look Old School. Based on the Autumn Burst Alnico Launch and others that I have seen, I am convinced the Le-2s are Old School.

Edit: I had already responded to this post and only looked at the pictures below Salmons post. My second opinion hasn't changed.

Darwin's photo clearly (at least on my Macbook Pro screen) shows the difference between Autumn Burst (on Sugar Pine) and Old School Tobacco Sunburst (on Korina).
Autumn Burst is more brown tone on the burst, while OSTB is more reddish tone on the burst. You really need to see them in person to get an appreciation of the difference.
Also, IMO, these finishes do look different on different wood types.

I talked with Malcolm at the factory during NAMM, about both of these finishes and asked if the mixing formulas had changed for either of them.
He said they have not been changed.

[Salmon]

I believe these two are actually finished in OSTB. I will check with Dave to confirm which color finish is on the ASAT "Cat" on the left.
Earlier, I did confirm with Dave that the Savannah Collection Bluesboy-90 is finished in OSTB.

Stay tuned.

All of these look like they share the same finish.




Xavier's S-500 has a flamed maple top yet the finish looks like the Alnico Launch.

[Fumble fingers]

to me it looks like the LE 2's are fifferent than the Cat and Blues boy .... maybe it's my computer screen ??..... I really think seeing is believing , but not in pictures , real life

[Salmon]

to me it looks like the LE 2's are fifferent than the Cat and Blues boy .... maybe it's my computer screen ??..... I really think seeing is believing , but not in pictures , real life

What you might be noticing is the application of the darkest tint around the edges. The LEII's blend smoothly with a less abrupt transition to a distinct band of dark. IOW, the LEII's do not have a very distinct band of dark color around the edges, unlike the ASAT's. The ASAT's have a relatively narrow band of pure edge tint that transitions more abruptly from the golden center tint to the edge. I think the edge tint on both of the LEII's here was sprayed thinner, as in a less heavy and more transparent layer.

People have frequently commented on how many Honeybursts look closer to Honey than Honeyburst for the same reason. Except that in the case of Honeyburst, the darkest and lightest tints are closer to the same hue like going from a lighter honey to a darker honey. In the case of Honeyburst if the edge tint is not dramatic it is more difficult to see the gradation of the burst. Most bursts use a different hue for each band going from say golden to red to black or golden to brown. Some bursts are transparent. Some grow opaque as they approach the edges. Both Autumnburst and OSTS are transparent bursts showing grain even in the darkest sections.

So getting back to these guitars, what you could be noticing is the application of the burst, however, the color is the same between all four guitars (to my eyes/mind on my Mac ACD at least). Assuming these pictures with the four different guitars were taken on the same table, under the same lights, with the same camera/angle/position, they should illustrate a difference in color if they are truly different finishes. All I can detect is a slight variation in the amount of a tint used with each guitar. And they are inconsistent with previous examples of AB or OSTS.



Granted none of the other pictures were taken with this degree of similarity in environmental conditions but Darwin's side by side guitars share the same light and camera for the sake of comparing those two guitars.


[Pardon the redundancy in my post as I have deliberately made the same point more than once using different words].

[supereiv]

Xavier's S-500 has a flamed maple top yet the finish looks like the Alnico Launch.




Salmon , as I said in another post, Autumn burst is a White Balance killer, one of the hardest colour to picture right IMO.
Of those two pictures above, the Asat lauch edition is the closest to reality. The edges are really brown, but still transparent.
The picture of my avatar is close too, but a little too saturated. To me OSTB looks more "chocolate" if that makes sense (damn lack of vocabulary).

[Craig]

Aside from the effect of the difference in woods I sure cannot see any difference between Autumnburst and Old School Tobacco Sunburst in these two recent builds.

February 2014 Factory Photos:

Left "Auntumnburst" <= => Right "Old School Tobacco Sunburst"

I believe these two are actually finished in OSTB. I will check with Dave to confirm which color finish is on the ASAT "Cat" on the left.
Earlier, I did confirm with Dave that the Savannah Collection Bluesboy-90 is finished in OSTB.

Stay tuned.

I heard back from Dave. I am wrong, the ASAT "Cat" is finished in Autumn Burst (again on Equatorial Mahogany).

Dave says this:

Different woods make a big difference, especially between swamp ash, equatorial and korina. That's before lighting, angle and the camera.

I also notice that these two guitars are on two different workbenches and the lighting is slightly different. Subtle differences that can be difficult to capture with
an iPhone camera plus these photos are by no means "hi-res".

[Salmon]

OK I accept that explanation but I'd like to see an Alnico Launch on either of these benches in the factory photographed using this camera mounted in the same place just to see something that has never appeared to look like anything other than the Autumnburst that Xavier acknowledges as an accurate representation of the color of his S-500. The Alnico Launch photos typically look like Xavier's prototype with the exception of a few like this image off the G&L website:



This is what they usually look like and this matches what Xavier acknowledges his prototype looks more like:



Here is another example just a snapshot in crude lighting that still resembles the accurate representation of Autumnburst:



Please don't mistake this as arguing against Dave's quoted explanation. I just think it would be good to have the photos here where people will be able to compare and see what a photo representation can do so they know what to expect.

[Salmon]

...To me OSTB looks more "chocolate" if that makes sense (damn lack of vocabulary).

Going by "chocolate" as a reference would you choose "coffee" to represent Autumnburst's particular shade of brown?

[supereiv]

Going by "chocolate" as a reference would you choose "coffee" to represent Autumnburst's particular shade of brown?

Yes, I find it pretty accurate.

in the 3 pictures of your previous post, only the 2nd seems close to autumn burst, the 1st and the 3rd are completely off topic.

[Salmon]

...I'd like to see an Alnico Launch on either of these benches in the factory photographed using this camera mounted in the same place just to see something that has never appeared to look like anything other than the Autumnburst that Xavier acknowledges as an accurate representation of the color of his S-500.....

Thank you Craig and G&L factory people!