S500 Intonation issues

[Bluezhawk]

I've recently installed new strings on my Tribute S500 moving from 10s to 11s and I'm running into issues adjusting the intonation. Here's what I've done so far:

Lowered the pickups to prevent magnetic pull on the strings per instructions posted by rcbmusic@sunflower.com on November 14, 2005 at 03:48:48 on the G&LDP
Strings 1, 2, 5, 6 have adjusted correctly
3rd string is very close but I've ran out of adjustment threads on the screw and the note at the 12th is just a bit sharp. Its moved as far away from the nut as the screw/spring will allow
4th string - the note is sharp at the 12th fret and adjusting the screw in either direction doesn't change the pitch at the 12th fret at all. The saddle block is moving & changing the pitch of the string as I have to retune after adjusting it
Tune the fourth string to D, harmonic at 12th fret is in tune but fretted note is sharp
I took the 4th string off of the tuning peg and pulled on it to make certain that it was seated properly in the tremolo block.
I installed DR Pure Blues 11-50

Needless to say, beginning at the 1st fret all notes are out of tune by approx a quarter tone
I'm using the tuner function of Zoom G3 multi-effects pedal and a Sabine AX-3000. The Zoom is like many rack tuners, it has 7 LEDs with the middle LED indicating being in tune. The 4th string 12th fret is on the LED farthest to the right and as mentioned, pitch doesn't budge when the bridge piece is adjusted in either direction.
The Sabine was a predecessor to the clip on tuners like the Snark; it had a sticky pad on it that would adhere to the guitar w/o damage to the finish and of course, works from the vibrations. Now extinct since Sabine no longer makes tuners but here is a link if you should be curious

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/resource ... er/m711653

Any idea of why this is happening and how to correct it?


Many thanks in advance



Keith

[Katefan]

Hi Keith,

A few things come to mind - first - you may have to recut the nut slots to accomodate the heavier gauge strings - out of tune notes at first fret usually indicate strings sitting too high in the nut slots.

Second, re the D string - try moving the bridge saddle closer to the neck - if the saddle is back too far, in my experience it will register as sharp... in other words if its flat you of course shorten the string length and if its sharp you lengthen it... but I"ve found if you go too far back, the note will register as sharp again.... also the saddle spring may have to be cut shorter to allow the saddle to move further back.

Lastly, I'd suggest not using the vibration type tuners as they aren't great for setting intonation.... I'd recommend an old Korg tuner (Will Ray's fave tuner I believe ) a Boss tuner with an analog meter or of course a Peterson tuner. I'm sure there are heaps of others.... Not sure if the rack tuner is sensitive for intonation purposes.
I use an older Sabline ST-1500 tuner. Its not the greatest but I find its pretty darn good. Oh, and the position (pickup) you're using can affect things too - I find using the bridge position yields the most accurate results....SOme folks think the neck postion is best but you may want to try using the bridge postition if you're not already doing so.

Best of Luck,

KF

[GeorgeB]

.... also the saddle spring may have to be cut shorter to allow the saddle to move further back.

That's what I did with my S-500 (Tribute) on G and E strings as the saddles got blocked by too longs springs. Actually you do not need the springs for anything anyway, in real operation string pull is fully dominating force on the saddle.

I have zero issues with 11...56 Hybrid Slinky's on my S-500 tuned either Eb-standard or Drop-C#. It is going sharp a little beyond the 14th fret on the thicker strings from the rather high action I prefer to play with -- a neglected reason for "bad" intonation quite often -- but below 12th fret intonation is virtually perfect for my playing style which uses a lot of finger vibrato. A guitar that tends to go sharp above 7th isn't exactly what you like for this, so I try to adjust mine to be more on the flat side higher up on the board, if anything. That is, I would not agree that a saddle too far back will create sharp notes, btw, rather the exact opposite.

An old-school needle tuner like the Korg AT-2 works best for adjustment, besides one's ears of course. And do the intonation fine tuning while playing the guitar in your ususal playing position. I found this the hard way, years back I minutely adjusted intonation on the bench only to find it was useless for how I actually play the guitar.

[Bluezhawk]

KF & GeorgeB

Thanks for your input.

I widened the nut slot and also used a 320 grit stone to smooth the saddle piece to remove any rough surfaces; applied Planet Wave's lube (teflon grease) to the nut and saddle piece.

I removed the spring and then used a small piece of it on the outside of bridge so that I could pull the saddle piece completely to the bridge. The guitar is so close to being intonated but I can't get anymore adjustment out of it.
The next step would be to either try to find shorter saddles or use a grinder to remove about 3/16" so I can move it further.



Keith

[Philby]

I've traditionally used the harmonic approach to set the intonation on my guitars, but it doesn't always work if the saddles aren't close to the correct position initially. As the intonation is related to the scale length of the instrument and gauge of the string, you could try the following approach which Fender recommends for their instruments. I've lifted it straight from the Fender website. I tried it on a troublesome tele and it worked really well.

INTONATION (ROUGHING IT OUT)
You can preset the basic intonation of your guitar by taking a tape measure and measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the 12th fret (the fret wire itself; not the fingerboard). Double that measurement to find the scale length of your guitar. Adjust the first-string bridge saddle to this scale length, measuring from the inside of the nut to the center of the bridge saddle. Now adjust the distance of the second-string saddle back from the first saddle, using the gauge of the second string as a measurement. For example, If the second string is .011" (0.3 mm), you would move the second-string saddle back .011" (0.3 mm) from the first saddle. Move the third saddle back from the second saddle using the gauge of the third string as a measurement. The fourth-string saddle should be set parallel with the second-string saddle. Proceed with the fifth and sixth saddles with the same method used for strings two and three.