What the heck is this?

[jlatker]

I was searching G&L F-100 on eBay and came up with this guitar. I've got a 1981 that I bought new, so I'm pretty aware of the body style.

Could this be a hybrid of some kind or did an F-100 neck end up on this body before the owner purchased it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-1980-s-G-L-F- ... 23070e4e98

[SJG]

Looks like a major mod to me.

[SunDog]

I am trying to sell my F-100 - and am getting questions about it that I cannot answer. I bought it in 1985 used in Orlando, FL. The serial number on the bridge indicates that it was built in 1981. The only thing that I changed were two of the pick ups and added the DPDT switch.

I cannot see any other examples of a three pick up Series II. The cavity looks like it was done in the factory.

Any ideas?

Pictures:

http://www.10realty.com/guitar.htm

[Craig]

I was searching G&L F-100 on eBay and came up with this guitar. I've got a 1981 that I bought new, so I'm pretty aware of the body style.

Could this be a hybrid of some kind or did an F-100 neck end up on this body before the owner purchased it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-1980-s-G-L-F- ... 23070e4e98

The pickguard, pickups, controls, and side output jack are definitely not stock.
This guitar is listed our Marketplace, and there is some more info about it there.
The ad does not say whether or not the original MFD humbuckers are included.
Probably not, which is too bad. Perhaps the current owner can add to this thread.

My two cents.

[Craig]

I am trying to sell my F-100 - and am getting questions about it that I cannot answer. I bought it in 1985 used in Orlando, FL. The serial number on the bridge indicates that it was built in 1981. The only thing that I changed were two of the pick ups and added the DPDT switch.

I cannot see any other examples of a three pick up Series II. The cavity looks like it was done in the factory.

Any ideas?

Pictures:

http://www.10realty.com/guitar.htm

Hi SunDog,

F-100's of that vintage did not have a pickguard and only came with 2 MFD Humbucker pickups.
So, a previous owner highly modded the guitar before you got it.

Hope this helps.

[MrRoundel]

I'd have to go with the opinions that the guitar was modified to accommodate the 3 single coils. If it is factory routed for the singles, it may be a Skyhawk body with an F-100 neck. Something like that. However, the control setup is different from Skyhawks. Yes, I'm going to have to go with it being modified. Perhaps if you post a picture of the routes for the pickups and control cavity, someone can give you something definitive. Generally, one can tell factory routs by whether or not there's paint sprayed on the inside of the cavities. However, in the case of this guitar, you mention an unusual color, therefore it could have been rerouted and then repainted after it left the factory.

[jlatker]

My two cents for what it's worth as not being able to inspect it, this just comes from experience.

I saw an exact duplicate of this guitar at a guitar show last January. The guy selling it was an ex-G&L employee. It was built from parts using the F-100 neck on an S-500. Back in 1991-1992 when BBE purchased G&L many instruments were assembled from left over parts. Lots of folks refer to this as the "garage sale years." My bet would be this is one such guitar accounting for no routes for humbuckers, and the single coils and the none F-100 pickguard/control panels.

Regards,

Tim

Tim, I think you nailed it. Because that pu config and the pickguard is from the 1980's version of the S-500.

[Craig]

My two cents for what it's worth as not being able to inspect it, this just comes from experience.

I saw an exact duplicate of this guitar at a guitar show last January. The guy selling it was an ex-G&L employee. It was built from parts using the F-100 neck on an S-500. Back in 1991-1992 when BBE purchased G&L many instruments were assembled from left over parts. Lots of folks refer to this as the "garage sale years." My bet would be this is one such guitar accounting for no routes for humbuckers, and the single coils and the none F-100 pickguard/control panels.

Regards,

Tim

Tim, I think you nailed it. Because that pu config and the pickguard is from the 1980's version of the S-500.

If I'm not mistaken, the G&L S-500 pickguard would be powdercoated metal and also two pieces.
That one looks to be a one piece 3-ply plastic guard. I agree with Tim that it could be an S-500 body.
So, if the body and bridge are from an S-500, then what model name would you categorize it?
Is it an S-500 or an F-100?

I'm thinking it is an S-500, because the serial number is on the bridge, assuming that the bridge is the original one
with that body. But what if the bridge belonged to the original F-100 where the neck came from?

[jlatker]

My two cents for what it's worth as not being able to inspect it, this just comes from experience.

I saw an exact duplicate of this guitar at a guitar show last January. The guy selling it was an ex-G&L employee. It was built from parts using the F-100 neck on an S-500. Back in 1991-1992 when BBE purchased G&L many instruments were assembled from left over parts. Lots of folks refer to this as the "garage sale years." My bet would be this is one such guitar accounting for no routes for humbuckers, and the single coils and the none F-100 pickguard/control panels.

Regards,

Tim

Tim, I think you nailed it. Because that pu config and the pickguard is from the 1980's version of the S-500.

If I'm not mistaken, the G&L S-500 pickguard would be powdercoated metal and also two pieces.
That one looks to be a one piece 3-ply plastic guard. I agree with Tim that it could be an S-500 body.
So, if the body and bridge are from an S-500, then what model name would you categorize it?
Is it an S-500 or an F-100?

I'm thinking it is an S-500, because the serial number is on the bridge, assuming that the bridge is the original one
with that body. But what if the bridge belonged to the original F-100 where the neck came from?

I'm also thinking it's an S-500. Mainly because the necks of both the F-100 and S-500 were pretty similar. In my head if the bridges are identical, which I believe they are, and the only difference is the neck, then the pu config is going to mainly determine the voice of the guitar. Three single coils are going to sound completely different than the MFD humbuckers. So, it's an S-500.

Jeff

[SunDog]

Hi Everybody - looks like I opened a can of worms with this one. I really should have done my homework before posting this guitar for sale. It never dawned on me to question the inongruity with the headstock shape and lettering - and the body layout. I have called this guitar an F-100 for 24 years now. Actually it is wors than that - I always refered to it as a "Series III" - never looking closely enough at the lettering - just relating what I assumed was III with the 3 coil design. I usually pay way more attention to things.

Anyway - I think that I should probably end or at least modify the auction until more information is available. I dont want to mislead anyone.

You guys have given me a lot to consider. If Tim is willing to call me on the phone - I would love to discuss this guitar with him. If anyone else thinks that they can shed some light on the subject - I would be willing to go off line with you too.

email me at johnnyo3478@gmail.com

Needless to say - I am super bummed about the condition of this guitar. I could very well be one of those idiots that have been shown to take something that was very special - and essentially trash it. What a shame if it is true. At one point - I let my son cover it with Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles stickers. You can still see the residue in the finish. Sigh.

[jlatker]

Hi Everybody - looks like I opened a can of worms with this one. I really should have done my homework before posting this guitar for sale. It never dawned on me to question the inongruity with the headstock shape and lettering - and the body layout. I have called this guitar an F-100 for 24 years now. Actually it is wors than that - I always refered to it as a "Series III" - never looking closely enough at the lettering - just relating what I assumed was III with the 3 coil design. I usually pay way more attention to things.

Anyway - I think that I should probably end or at least modify the auction until more information is available. I dont want to mislead anyone.

You guys have given me a lot to consider. If Tim is willing to call me on the phone - I would love to discuss this guitar with him. If anyone else thinks that they can shed some light on the subject - I would be willing to go off line with you too.

email me at johnnyo3478@gmail.com

Needless to say - I am super bummed about the condition of this guitar. I could very well be one of those idiots that have been shown to take something that was very special - and essentially trash it. What a shame if it is true. At one point - I let my son cover it with Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles stickers. You can still see the residue in the finish. Sigh.

Don't beat yourself up my brother. You are not alone. If I tell you what I did to my 1960 Stratocaster after I bought it in 1980, it will make you feel OK. Don't worry, my Strat has made a remarkable recovery due to lots of TLC and The same could happen with your G&L. A little cleanup and some polish and even with the dents and dings it'll still be a great guitar.

[suave eddie]

Naptha (lighter fluid) should remove the residue from the stickers without damaging the finish.

[SunDog]

So in summary so far:

It looks to me like the body is very similar (if not identical) to that of an early 80's S-500.
The neck is identical to those of the F-100 Series II and is marked as such. The body is nowhere near what one would expect from an F-100.
The pick guard is the same shape as those on the early 80's S-500 but there is no hole in the top for an input jack. The jack for the guitar comes out the side of the guitar.
The bridge is marked like one would expect from an S-500 - and indicates a model from the middle part of the 1981 run.
The guitar looks exactly like one that has been reported to be in the possession of an Ex G&L employee that has been theorized to have been cobbled together from parts left over at the factory. However - the account mentions some activities in an era past the date which I acquired the guitar.

Does anyone know when S-500s first appeared? I can't find any pictures of models older than 1982.
Does the bend in the tremelo arm look less extreme than the bend from other examples of early 80's S-500s?
One clarification on my part - the routing of my guitar looks as though a humbucker would fit in the bridge position. Does anyone know how the S-500s are routed?
I will take it apart this week and post some pix of the innards. Are there dates usually stamped at the neck joint? Would rather not take the neck off for nothing.

I would obviously like to be able to sell this guitar as a very special project guitar for the right person to fix up - so it is important that I learn as much as possible about it. It would be great to trace thing back to some sort of hybrid transitional or rogue employee scenario. Given the relatively short period between the date indicated by the serial number - and the time I bought the guitar used - coupled with the oddities - kind of make that type of scenario seem possible to me.

Are there any actual build records in existence at the company?

[westsideduck]

First, if you bought it in 85 it's not an employee guitar from the garage sale in 91. It sounds to me like the routing was for three singles and someome then re-routed for a bucker, without seeing the routing I'd say you have a 82 to 84 S-500 body that has been modified for a bucker, the finish looks like an origional mahogany natural. S-500 came out in early 82, same body as the F-100 except for the pup routing of course. The bridge was the same for both models. The jack is not origional to either model. Look at my website (which is just a photo bucket account) and you will see many pics of origional early 100's and 500's to compare yours to. What you have is probably an early 500 body that has been modified, with a F-100 neck. Without the origonal two piece guard, squared end MFDs, pots and swicthes and black powdercoated trem cover and neck plate there unfortunatly is not much value to the guitar.

gary

[SunDog]

Hey Gary,

Thanks for your input. I looked at your pictures - very nice, btw. The routing on my guitar looks nothing like that of your S-500. I will be taking the pick guard off tomorrow to take another look.

[SunDog]

Mystery Solved.

Took the pick gaurd off last night and looked at the routing. It is obviously not a factory route job. Somebody (between 1981 and 1985) took an F-100 and routed a middle slot for a third pickup - then routed a path tho the control cavity - then put a remarkably nice pick guard on top of the mess. One can plainlly see the original HB pick up cavities that are all nice and neat - and one can plainly see the hand routedness of the middle cavity. I can't believe I never noticed it before. The mind definitely sees what it wants to see. Gag.

The only comfort that I take from this is that somebody elsed ruined the guitar before I did.

Where in the world would this person have got such a close replica of an S-500 shaped pick guard?

Anyway - it is still a nice playing guitar that I would like to get rid of. I think that I will spend a little effort cleaning it up and try to sell it for what I can get - with full disclosure.

Does anyone have any good tips for cleaning this thing up?

Thanks again for all the conjecture on the origins. You guys helped save me from completing a less than honest transaction - that would not have sit well with me in the end.