NGD: G&L Special Ordering Review & Advice

[Salmon]

I have a newborn G&L in my hands.

I would like to share my feelings and offer a little advice about the experience of ordering a G&L and the results.

I need to get this out of the way first. This is long......probably too long, there is some redundancy and I am violating the no pics it doesn't exist law. I am not naming the dealer where it could be misinterpreted as a shill and I will try to be very clear when I am expressing my opinion......most of this is based on my opinion and expectations. I am also not going to be specific about features like the exact color. I may want to sell this guitar someday and I don't want anything I say here to influence a sale later. This is not to suggest that I would be less than truthful when writing an ad, I just won't be as truthful about things that I personally am not ecstatic about. More on this later.*


Very Brief Specs: The guitar is an S500


Now, I am excited to talk about THE GOOD.

Tones:

I have a Legacy, an ASAT Classic, an ASAT Special and this new guitar is an S500. This guitar is the best of the bunch. I thought the most I could reasonably expect would be something also great and different. I did not believe I would end up finding this guitar to be better than my ASAT Classic. The Classic is the tone I desired in a Leo Fender guitar but this S500 gets close enough to that tone plus many other tones.....I'd say roughly 95% of which are useful tones.

As a point of reference, my ASAT Special is only 10% useful in that beyond a small range of adjustments the guitar produces characteristics I do not like and would never want to use. It isn't just tone I do not like. It is tone that is irritating. An analogy: many people like overdrive, distortion or fuzz but most people avoid static. My ASAT Special needs to be restrained because it is very bright. The tone within that 10% is beautiful to me though.

MFDs generally exhibit remarkable clarity. The MFDs in this S500 take full advantage of the PTB system. I believe the ASAT Special needs the PTB system and I am going to see about incorporating it into my Special. This S500 gets all of the Strat sounds. It gets the wonderful single coil neck tone of the Strat and Tele style guitars plus beautiful tones outside those that I cannot adequately pin down because I don't know whether they are unique or similar to model styles of guitar I have not played. I can only say they are not humbucker tones but some would fill in for humbuckers, different but capable tones that a listener would not reject as too foreign when playing familiar humbucker-esque songs.

I had not had an opportunity to experience what the PTB system could do with MFDs. My Legacy PTB range with the Alnicos does not represent the full value of the system. For instance, when I adjust the bass knob on this S500 I clearly hear it go from 0-10 and that 10 does not make any setting sound flubby blubby. It merely adds bass to the tone while clarity remains constant. The result is absolutely beautiful tone. When I adjust the bass knob on my Legacy I cannot hear this effect as dramatically. The range and clarity in the MFDs and the PTB system seems like an ideal marriage to me.

I have read that some people have had trouble with "ice pick" characteristics in their S500 MFDs (could have been year specific or unique to random guitars, I don't know.). This S500 does not produce any ice pick tones.

Feel:

This guitar's neck enables me to play with the greatest accuracy. False harmonics are easier to achieve and stronger in this guitar than any of the other G&Ls I have. Volume from low E string to high E is well balanced.

The action feels very good to me. Prior to this, my Classic had been my favorite.

This S500 is a lighter guitar and somehow the overall weight and shape feels better to handle than my Legacy. It is lighter than the Legacy as well.

Appearance:

The body wood is ash and this has a nice grain to compliment its translucent finish.

The Process:

The ordering process was a breeze. I found a dealer who was familiar with everything I asked for except one item. They had an answer from the G&L factory within a couple of days. If I special order another G&L I will use the same dealer.

I am pleased with everything except one aspect.


Now for the NOT SO GOOD.

Body Finish Color:

When shopping for an S500 I found several candidates online. All of the ready-to-buy guitars were nice enough to consider but none had the finish I preferred the most. In the end the price was only a little more to get the finish I preferred. So I decided to do a special order. Everything aside from the finish was just icing on the cake I could live without but I took advantage of the ability to include it.

I ordered a certain finish after liking every example of the finish I had come across online. Unfortunately, the G&L factory managed to produce my finish so different than any example I had seen that I would not have recognized it as the same color. The only way to identify it might be through a process of elimination based on knowledge of all of the finishes. Your conclusion would leave you with a most likely rather than a certainty.

Neck Finish Color:

I also ordered the GOT/Vintage neck in all maple. The name comes from the color of an old well-used maple neck. It is designed to give you that look. I have read that the neck finishing process had been improved to produce consistent results with no more "Cheetos" necks and so on. Yet I am positive that no one would ever see an old well-used maple neck in the color that I received.

I have seen contemporary G&L Vintage necks in person and plenty online. The G&L factory may have eliminated the "Cheetos" orange but I don't think that they have eliminated inconsistency in neck color. It seems like the finish guys do not keep in mind that the whole point of a "vintage" neck finish is to replicate the color of a vintage guitar's neck. I believe this should involve making sure that the result looks vintage. (Note: I am not referring to relicing).

There is room for some variance between "Cheetos" and pale peachy beige but this is outside of that range. By now the factory should recognize which pieces of raw neck woods will produce inferior results, if that is the origin of this problem. I am not sure whether there is a one tint fits all approach or the color is custom mixed to each neck's raw wood but they did not achieve the results I see in most other G&L Vintage finishes.

The neck matches the body finish. It is possible that they had the completed neck laying around and adjusted the body finish to match the neck. If this is the case, I applaud the effort to match them. They succeeded. I have seen guitars where the two are from different universes (all brands and not necessarily anyone's fault.......just a bad match like wearing the mismatched color of shirt and pants.). But if this is what happened and they based the body on the neck color I think the neck should have been redone to begin with.


Conclusion:

Overall 4 out of 5 stars.

If you are planning to special order a G&L I would discourage you from ordering a finish that requires an eye/mind for blending and/or matching color. If you want a burst, buy one off-the-shelf because you can see what you are getting in advance. If you want a Vintage tint on your neck, buy a guitar off-the-shelf, especially when the body finish could clash with a neck finish.

I don't believe the G&L factory has consistency down when it comes to certain finishes. The paint may be flawlessly smooth, shiny and free of blemishes but your opinion of the color vs. the painter's is a crap shoot if there is any degree of mixture eyeballing required and it isn't made with a straight forward formula.

The determining factor between special ordering and off-the-shelf was getting the finish I wanted. In all but my Classic I had not been able to get the most desired color in the model when I was shopping. Actually I would have preferred to have the Classic's color in my Legacy and a different color for the Classic. So not receiving what I expected after passing on other guitars has cast a shadow over my enthusiasm.

This S500 body finish and neck finish match one another. It is just that neither are the color I expected based on 90% of what I had observed in what G&L produced, therefore, the color I received is like receiving a color I did not order.

This is all based on what I wanted and expected. Without that background someone could easily like the color. It is still a beautiful guitar. It is not a freakish color. Plenty of people would think it is beautiful. The color bothered me quite a bit more before I had clocked in some time playing the guitar. My disappointment and frustration with the finish color diminishes the more I play the guitar. But I doubt I will ever admire the appearance of this guitar, it is so different than what I wanted. Based on what I was looking for, in a line-up with all of the ready-to-buy guitars I was considering I would have chosen one of the others.


*Having read this far you should have additional insight regarding the reason I am not posting a picture or describing the body finish or what exactly is off about it compared to what I expected.

[darwinohm]

Salmon, congrats on the new S-500 and the detailed review. It is unfortunate that the color is not as you had wished. I experience similar disappointment when my ordered, Asat Eq Mahogany came in. I was expecting a high gloss finish only to discover is was satin, almost an unfinished look. Shame on me as I hadn't even asked the question!. I have grown quite fond of it in the meantime.

Consistency is always an issue with transparent paints and woods. G&L has changed their process in how the GOT necks are done. Today they are tinted. Before they were stained and then sprayed giving the most beautiful stain patterns depending on how the stain was absorbed by the grain. I thought they were truly pieces of art and no two looked the same. I have several of those and love them. The new process is more consistent in my opinion but I don't find them as interesting looking.

As for body color I think I experienced recently what you are describing. I have a Blonde Legacy which has a beautiful ash grain that can be seen through the white. Much more so than a Fender Blonde that I have. The color is somewhat transparent. Last week I stopped at AGB and they had the most stunning Legacy I have ever seen. It was mostly transparent but had a white hue. The ash grain was killer. I asked what color it was and it was a Blonde. I wish mine were like that. I also agree that when ordering something we have expectations. I have been fortunate to find some cool G&Ls that were available and there is the advantage of seeing them. I hope that the color becomes more agreeable to you as it sounds like you have a sweet guitar otherwise.

Are you sure the Asat Special is working correctly. I have a few of them and haven't found them to be as you describe but again, we all hear differently and admittedly, my hearing is marginal. Hope you bond with this new one and thanks for the review.-- Darwin

[Fumble fingers]

so what color did you order and on what wood ??...... I know I'm leary of some of the burst finishes , sometimes the burst is thick/wide , sometimes it's thin/narrow , I prefer the thin burst but it seems to really vary between guitars , burst is a color choice I would want to see before hand , same with tinted necks , some I like some I don't .....

[suave eddie]

First off, it's unfortunate that you are not totally satisfied with the way your special order came out.
When I made a special order purchase, my dealer gave me the option of refusal upon arrival, for any reason whatsoever--with no penalty.
I don't know how unusual this is.

I've read your post 3 or 4 times now and still can't figure out why you are reluctant to provide details or photos--I guess you have your reasons.

Regarding the GOT/Vintage Tint--I've never understood what this was all about--I've not liked any example that I've seen. I've never seen an old maple neck age and look like this. I ordered the "Light Tint" on my ASAT and am very satisfied with the way it came out--it takes the edge off a stark white maple neck but does not look orange like all the GOT examples I've seen. I can't imagine any G&L finish that would look good with the GOT neck.

I ordered a Blueburst finish and it arrived exactly as I expected it to look. If the color/finish on yours was not to your liking, especially if it looked different from examples you used to make your decision, perhaps you could have refused the guitar on that basis.

Your remarks regarding the tone on your ASAT Special are very surprising to me. When I ordered my ASAT Classic, I spent a lot of time in the store comparing the Classic to the Special--back and forth over and over. My experience was the large MFDs in the Special were much darker sounding than the small ones in the Classic, so your remarks about the Special being too bright confuses me especially since you like the sound of the Classic so much.

It really sounds like the color/finish on your order should be grounds for you to send it back--you shouldn't have to live with a guitar that you special ordered if you are not 100% satisfied.

Hope it all works out eventually for you.

[blargfromouterspace]

Really need pics. What is wrong with the finish? What finish is it?

[suave eddie]

Really need pics. What is wrong with the finish? What finish is it?

He doesn't want to say.

*Having read this far you should have additional insight regarding the reason I am not posting a picture or describing the body finish or what exactly is off about it compared to what I expected.

I'm lacking the additional insight--It doesn't really matter--If the color differs from what was represented I can understand the frustration.

[blargfromouterspace]

Really need pics. What is wrong with the finish? What finish is it?

He doesn't want to say.

*Having read this far you should have additional insight regarding the reason I am not posting a picture or describing the body finish or what exactly is off about it compared to what I expected.

I'm lacking the additional insight--It doesn't really matter--If the color differs from what was represented I can understand the frustration.

I'd like to see it still, to see what went wrong. The overwhelming majority of G&L burst/transparent finishes I've seen have been stunning. It sounds like this was a custom, off-menu colour, is that right?

[Salmon]

I am sorry that not posting a photo, naming the finish and pointing out exactly what I think is wrong about the guitar is cryptic. I think the need to see the picture or to know more information is probably just curiosity rather than vital in order to understand the situation. Offering the advice I concluded with was really the point of creating this thread and that can be ignored, heeded or taken with a grain of salt whether my feelings about my guitar's finish are valid or not. We could debate whether the color is truly what it is supposed to be but it would not change the way I feel about it. It is not blue when I asked for red. It is a shade of blue that is unlike what I had observed in the examples I saw online. The same is true of the Vintage tint. I was not using officially sanctioned color accurate swatches as a reference when I made my selection of course yet the pictures of my guitar match the guitar in person. I looked at enough pictures of different examples to understand what might be effected by lighting conditions when the pictures were taken so I think it is safe enough to expect to see a similarity with the pictures I was using.

I am not posting a photo because I might sell the guitar in the future, although definitely not the near future. If I do that I want people to make a decision based on their own perception. There are a lot of factors considered when making a purchase and people often think about resale value. The G&L community is limited. When I was planning my order I did a lot of research online. It would be surprisingly easy to connect this thread with an online sale ad. It isn't like a defect that I am obligated disclose. Just think of any color and how mixing in another color might shift everything in an undesirable direction. It is an association I make in my mind that doesn't align with what I wanted or planned for. I don't think it would take much to persuade people to see it my way. They might love it anyway or learn to dislike it when they might have loved the guitar otherwise. I would be poisoning the well.

@ Suave Eddie, I hope this additional information is enough for people to understand why I don't want to show the guitar or say more. Your special order option to refuse at no cost is rare. I could have rejected this within 48hrs with a fee and shipping charges, however, in my mind it wasn't a clear case where something was done wrong. The color was off to me but it wasn't off enough to warrant a refusal. The guitar is beautiful. Also, aside from my feelings about the color everything else was done exceptionally well. This guitar is still able to be the best guitar I have owned. There is no doubt many people have received exactly what they were aiming at with their special orders. Yet there are some features that are riskier than others. Please read what I have to say @Blagfromouterspace.

@ Fumble Fingers, The wood is swamp ash.

@ Darwin, What could be the source needing correction in my ASAT Special.........both the neck and bridge pickups exhibit proportionally similar degrees of brightness?

@ Blagfromouterspace, The finish is stunning and it has a choice grain pattern. It is just a color that occupies a position on the color wheel that is a little too far into a neighboring color's yard rendering it different than what I was aiming for. With the neck sharing enough of this adjacent color it looks as though it has been painted with a color rather than tinted to look like aged wood.

....The body wood is ash and this has a nice grain to compliment its translucent finish........This is all based on what I wanted and expected. Without that background someone could easily like the color. It is still a beautiful guitar............Plenty of people would think it is beautiful.....

[Fumble fingers]

I wouldn't worry about you not liking the color hurting resale ...... One guy doesn't like xxx color but the next guy does , thats just normal with colors ..... heck it's a NGD show some picts !! ... My Legacy came in slightly different than what I was really wanting/expecting , I too looked at all the pict's on line and the guitar builder has Honeyburst more orangy ...... now that I have it looks more brownish than orange-ish, if I had a do over I would have ordered clear orange burst , still love the guitar and have no intentions of selling it

[blargfromouterspace]

I wouldn't worry about you not liking the color hurting resale ...... One guy doesn't like xxx color but the next guy does , thats just normal with colors ..... heck it's a NGD show some picts !! ...

Exactly.

I had the same problem with the SC2 I ordered earlier this year - great guitar, but I didn't like the colour at all. IMO Shoreline gold should be called silver. Anyway. I had no trouble when I traded that guitar for an amp a couple of weeks ago. The other guy really liked the colour, I really like the amp which he obviously didn't like much at all, and we're both happy.

I think there's always a bit of buyers remorse when custom ordering a guitar. There's always something you'd do different, or at least thats what my own personal experience has been. And how many differently specced signature guitars have even the best guitarists in the world had over the years?!?! As it was you who made the final decision on the specs you can kick yourself all day long if it doesn't come out quite like what you wanted. The guitars I've bought used or with no options - my blonde Classic and the Korina Jr - I'm happier with, and thats not what I'd expect. Regardless, I'm glad that the option to customise is there and will continue to use it

[MJ Slaughter]

What could be the source needing correction in my ASAT Special.........both the neck and bridge pickups exhibit proportionally similar degrees of brightness?

[/quote]

I had a ASAT Special I bought slightly used for a few weeks that went back only because someone had screwed up the frets. Great guitar that I intend on acquiring again some day soon. I too thought it was pretty bright sounding for the bridge pickup but the neck was exactly what I wanted. When using the bridge pickup I found by turning the tone down a little bit, maybe 25%, it was a tone I like very much. Typically I don't like single coils in the bridge position. One of my Legacys has a SD Little 59 that works for me. I hope you're able to enjoy the S-500. That guitar is on my short list too.

[darwinohm]

Salmon, I don't know if you are the first owner of your Special but you mentioned that about 90 % of the tone is unlikable to you and I am wondering if the wiring and caps are correct. There are others on the board who have experimented with this and I am wondering if you can use a cap to bleed off some of the ice pick highs. I don't know for sure but someone here will.

Salmon, I understand you disappointment but I bet there are some of us who would like that difference from the norm. Seeing is believing and did I get a lesson in that when I had the paint mixed for the Pink Lady. I had seen Jamies pictures of his Shell Pink partscaster and thought is was really cool. I ordered a Shell Pink from the paint supplier and they gave me a Desoto Shell Pink from the 50s. When I was ready to paint, I thought it looked light in color. I sprayed the body and Ginny told me that it wasn't Pink. It was lighter than I expected and it turns out that there were a couple of different formulas for Shell Pink. Mine is light but I now think I like it better than the brighter Shell Pink. It has definitely grown on me. Anyway Salmon, I hope you can tame that Special a bit.-- Darwin

[NickHorne]

A small cap, simply across the bridge pickup (probably best done at the 3-way), can certainly do good things.
Something like .0033uF (yes, .0033, not .033) or .0022 will lower the pickup's self-resonant frequency and fatten things up. .0047 might also be useful.
.0033uF is also known as 3.3nF (nanoFarad), or 3n3, and also as 3,300pF (picoFarad); similarly for the other values.
I plan to do exactly this, on a switch, to the Special which I am expecting in the next couple of months. I'll let you know what values fit well with the MFD.
I plan to hang a pair of wires off the 3-way, from the bridge pup connections, with some little croc clips on the ends, and just dangle them out from under the control plate. Then I can try a few cap values to see what works for me before I drill / solder anything. I'll use croc clips with soft plastic insulating covers, so the finish doesn't get prematurely dinged.

[Salmon]

Nick,

That would be so helpful and interesting.

[NickHorne]

I'll certainly get researching this as soon as the Special arrives.
I won't be discarding the regular, bright, bridge selection.
What I'll be looking into will be:
Which cap value makes for a fatter bridge pup option, and also whether the "fatter" option should be available for just the bridge, or overall. I won't know for sure until I try.
There's another mod planned, which may interact with the "fat" cap; this is re a 5-way switch and some "fake-strat" circuitry (JD Tele style). I have not yet tried combining resonance-altering caps with the controlled-degree-of-out-of-phase (which I have loved on other 2-pickup guitars); I am inclined to think it could be nice.
I'll report back, with some schematics, when I have results that I like.

[Salmon]

How do you feel about the idea of adding the PTB system to a Special? I am not suggesting you try this when you try what you have in your plan. I am interested in your opinion of the idea though.

[Ray Barbee Music]

Pics please.

If you went to sell it and I liked it, I wouldn't give a F whether you hated the finish or not, and I doubt anyone else would either, long as the buyer liked it. I seriously wouldn't worry about it hurting your 'resale'. I'm probably going to put a semi historic G&L up soon because I hate the neck shape. Its medium/large. I like small. But if the buyer wanted large, they wouldn't care that I dont like it.

IMO the whole the whole thread is rather silly w/out a pic.

[NickHorne]

Re the PTB, I can only say that I haven't felt the need so far.
My amp is just set with a little less bass, most of the time, when I'm using a G&L, and that suits me.
But that's not to say I won't try it someday.

I have other plans for the Tone pot; it will be a pull-pot that switches between regular operation and Bill Lawrence's "Q-Filter" configured as a mid-cut control.
I slightly modify his circuit to smooth off the super-shiny top end when the knob is at or near zero, and this gives me a control which I like very much. It just sweetens the tone, removing the "hard" parts, and my tiny mod softens it a little as well at the bottom of its range.

I will need the Tone to be on a pull-pot to switch this, as I also have plans for a pull-pot at the Volume (the resonance-lowering cap(s)) and also a toggle switch (to make "bridge" selection on a 5-way selectable between regular Bridge, or Both-pups-in-series with some extra circuitry).

Will keep you posted. Most circuit parts are now waiting in a box, and I just need an Asat. Probably / hopefully not too far into New Year.

[Elwood]

How cool would it be to be your neighbor Nick,
I'd love to hear your setups in person .

Asat. Probably / hopefully not too far into New Year.

that would be... "ASAT , ASAP !! " ?

[NickHorne]

You sure being my neighbour would be good?
I find that practise should mostly be the things that I have difficulty with, and therefore played badly. Also slowly, not entertainingly, and over and over and over.
This interspersed with occasional musical swearing...

[Elwood]

You sure being my neighbour would be good?
I find that practise should mostly be the things that I have difficulty with, and therefore played badly. Also slowly, not entertainingly, and over and over and over.
This interspersed with occasional musical swearing...

ahhh...Home Sweet Home

[Salmon]

Re the PTB, I can only say that I haven't felt the need so far.
My amp is just set with a little less bass, most of the time, when I'm using a G&L, and that suits me.
But that's not to say I won't try it someday.

I have other plans for the Tone pot; it will be a pull-pot that switches between regular operation and Bill Lawrence's "Q-Filter" configured as a mid-cut control.
I slightly modify his circuit to smooth off the super-shiny top end when the knob is at or near zero, and this gives me a control which I like very much. It just sweetens the tone, removing the "hard" parts, and my tiny mod softens it a little as well at the bottom of its range.

I will need the Tone to be on a pull-pot to switch this, as I also have plans for a pull-pot at the Volume (the resonance-lowering cap(s)) and also a toggle switch (to make "bridge" selection on a 5-way selectable between regular Bridge, or Both-pups-in-series with some extra circuitry).

Will keep you posted. Most circuit parts are now waiting in a box, and I just need an Asat. Probably / hopefully not too far into New Year.

I do not know what to expect from all of that so it will be interesting.

I hope you are able to upload some sound samples for reference when done.

Regarding PTB on an ASAT Special, I believe adjusting treble and bass controls on the guitar produces different results compared to using treble and bass controls on the amp. A difference might be lost depending on the settings and any effects or overdrive in many cases. It sounds like you are happy with the bass element you get via the amp EQ. The PTB system just works so well in my S500 I imagine it would enhance an ASAT Special, especially one that quickly takes bright to ice pick as mine does. I wonder what Leo Fender thought. He probably considered it at least momentarily.

[Ray Barbee Music]

Adjusting at the guitar is very different than at the amp due to frequencies involved, signal loading of the tone stack on the source signal, etc.

The reason the ptb works so well on something like a LS or Comanche, but not so well on a 3S Legacy is simply the frequencies produced by the pickups. Alnico slug single coils do not produce enough low frequency content to be be affected much by the bass control. Humbuckers, Z coils, LS rails, have lots of frequency content below the roll off of the bass control, so the affect of the control becomes very noticeable.

[NickHorne]

Well, yes and also no.
We are only talking about the low end here, as the high frequency adjustment in a PTB circuit is the same as in a regular guitar.
As for the low end, we are talking about frequencies that directly affect the volume balance of the lower notes of the guitar in relation to the rest. I set my pickups so that I have a good volume balance when I also have my preferred "warmth" of sound. If I were to turn up the bass eq, I would expect to have to drop the bottom end of my pups down.
If I want fatter or skinnier sound, I change pickup selection, or change guitar altogether.

[Salmon]

Technically the PTB may have less to work with when the pickups are Alnicos but I would not go so far as to characterize this as not working so well, which carries a pejorative implication. If it appeared that I was suggesting the PTB did not work well on a Legacy this is not what I intended to convey. Compared to the S500 the Legacy has smaller range and impact sourced to the PTB (sorry for such vague descriptive words) however the PTB does what it should. It is just very obvious on my S500 and so I gained an understanding of the PTB's potential. I would expect this, given the nickname of "a Strat (Legacy) on steroids." Everything is enhanced as in spatially vs. linearly.