String size and setup question..

[bloodied_fingers]

I have used Ernie Ball 'power slinky' (11-48) for a pretty long time. I've been wanting to try something new, just for giggles I put Ernie ball 'Cobalt 12-58' strings on my Legacy Tribute.

While I was expecting a bit of a difference, I wasn't prepared for the complete eff up it did to my setup. My bridge was 1/4" off the deck of the body and the action is so high Wile E. Coyote would get nervous jumping off my strings...

So I tightened up the trem claw, lamented the lack of a spot for another spring, and re-tuned the guitar. It seems 'ok' now but there are a couple things that I'm not entirely sure about...

1. The action is still pretty high, I think this is largely due to excessive relief (I haven't measured because I'm lazy). I figure to give the neck a day to settle in and then I'll adjust the TR (?)

2. Without another anchor on the trem-claw I can't add another spring, are there other ways to help bring the back end of the bridge down? I have tightend the claw, but it still seems like the springs aren't holding up well against these strings.

3. I noticed the G string doesn't really break over the nut. The G is 24-plain and I wonder if without there just isn't enough angle to make it pull down? I made sure to have enough winds to get the g-E strings to the bottom of their posts.

4. Part of this experiment is driven by my SRV-man-crush. So I'm actually considering leaving the action much higher than I have before (I read his guitars had very high action) Does anybody else like super thick strings and high action? Are there advantages other than the characteristic tone difference from thicker strings? I have read there are volume differences, but I don't really see the physics behind that, unless its the ability to play harder because fret-buzz is drastically reduced.

Any comments, suggestions appreciated.

[Craig]

You definitely will need to do a new setup, including adjusting the spring tension at the trem claw. See: Current Factory setup for G&L guitars with vibrato bridges.
Are tuning to standard pitch? If so, trying SRV's tuning, down to Eb.

I know others have successfully installed 12's without issue, but you will need to do a new setup.
If you want to change the trem claw to a five spring one, there is room for the stock Fender claw.

Hope this helps.

[bloodied_fingers]

Thanks Craig, I definitely use the link you provided for help. I'll probably leave the claw as is for now.. The bridge is back to level above the body.

I played quite a bit yesterday and am getting used to the higher action. It seems to give a more percussive sound when doing the muted Texas blues type of shuffle. Pretty cool i think... I might try taking some relief out of the neck tonight or tomorrow since I think it should be done moving.

So far I've left it at standard pitch. Previously, in a rare mood I have tried Eb. What I read about SRV was he went to Eb kind of late in his career. As well as using 12s instead of 13s O.O

I suspect it was because playing for a several shows days in a row was pretty tough on his fingers. So far mine have held up pretty well, but I'm never trying to play for hours on end.

[MAP70]

I've always toyed with the idea of going heavier like 11 or 12 just for the pure sound of heavy strings.. Then I saw a Rig Rundown for Billy Gibbons and he uses 7's!! LOL So I decided my 9's were plenty, you will sound like what you sound like no matter what strings, guitar, amps you use... SRV probably would have sounded the same on anything... undoubtedly his setup had some of his sound, but I think most of it was in his hands..

Plus 12's seem hard to play!!! LOL

Mark

[bloodied_fingers]

Well next to hands strings are the most important part of the guitar sound. vibrating mass and all... Still, I have no delusions that I'm sounding at all like SRV.

Billy Gibbons definitely gets some great sounds - I think lots of great players play very light strings. Different strings definitely have their own characteristic sound but if A or B is better/worse is entirely opinion.

In my limited experience 9's were not for me for sound or feel. I tried 9s when I first started playing and they hurt my fingers, like they're too sharp. I also don't like how 9s seem to magnify my sloppiness; accidentally bent notes and so on.

So I went the other way and tried 10s. I kinda liked them, and strings are cheap so I thought, "why not." I tried some 11s and I've been playing EB power slinkys (11s) for a while now. I actually prefer the feel of them under my fingers.

Recently I was talking to a guy about acoustics and learned 12s are the standard for dreadnoughts. I normally had 11s on my acoustic so I tried some 12s to see if there was a difference.

So I just took the plunge on my Legacy - and the jury is out on them right now. The 'cobalt' strings definitely feel a bit different, like gritty. I'm still pretty new to guitar and building up experience with different things.

[MAP70]

Yeah I can see how some people don't like 9's.. I have always used them since I started playing 25 years ago... I tried 10's and they are not bad at all, but I always gravitated back to 9's.. I always felt like better players played heavier strings, but once I heard that Billy Gibbons used 7's I felt much better about not going heavier... Although I do use heavier strings on my Acoustic...

Actually my new thing is pure nickel strings, I tried some Hendrix strings that are discontuinued and I wanted to see how some other manufacturers nickel strings were.... Right now I use DR Pure Blues.. I really like them.. They have a round core which is an old style way of making strings, nice sustain and they feel good under my fingers...... I was a D'Addario guy at the beginning and then I had used EB strings for years and years... but the DR stuff is real good... I would recommend giving them a shot if you never tried them, I wish I had tried them sooner..

It's always fun to try new stuff... sometimes it gives you ideas and/or a new way of looking at stuff...

Mark

[fianoman]

It's always fun to try new stuff... sometimes it gives you ideas and/or a new way of looking at stuff...

Mark

Agreed!

I will have to give those DR's a try. They get pretty good reviews. My fav electric strings have been the Dean Markley Blue Steels. They really woke up one of my electrics. I have been using them ever since but like to try new stuff too!

[Elwood]

If you have chance, try some curt mangan srtings, not expensive and pretty great sounding IMO.

[suave eddie]

If you have chance, try some curt mangan srtings, not expensive and pretty great sounding IMO.

+1
Curt Mangan Pure Nickle--I was skeptical but they really do make a difference.
I use these exclusively now (I'm afraid to try the Thomastik-Infeld).

[Elwood]

+1
Curt Mangan Pure Nickle--I was skeptical but they really do make a difference.
I use these exclusively now (I'm afraid to try the Thomastik-Infeld).

I hear ya, I'm always looking for a deal on them,good thing they last.
Here's the best deal I see presently :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161112789290?ss ... 1436.l2649

They are 9's, I'm hoping stringsandbeyond will have a deal on 10's sometime soon .

[MAP70]

Agreed!

I will have to give those DR's a try. They get pretty good reviews. My fav electric strings have been the Dean Markley Blue Steels. They really woke up one of my electrics. I have been using them ever since but like to try new stuff too!

I Haven't played Blue Steel strings in forever... I tried them when they first came out... I liked them then, but somehow went back to normal strings.. I believe they were a bit pricey back then....

[MAP70]

If you have chance, try some curt mangan srtings, not expensive and pretty great sounding IMO.

Never tried them... I can get the DR's locally so that is why I have been using them... but i am willing to try anything once...

[MAP70]

If you have chance, try some curt mangan srtings, not expensive and pretty great sounding IMO.

+1
Curt Mangan Pure Nickle--I was skeptical but they really do make a difference.
I use these exclusively now (I'm afraid to try the Thomastik-Infeld).

Yeah Pure nickel has me sold.... I like their feel and vintage sound...

The one thing I do like about the DR's is the round core and not a hex core.. you can feel the difference... I like it better...

Hex Core vs Round Core Strings

Guitar Strings used to be made with round cores, but high production manufacturing made it hard to wind the strings efficiently using the round cores. The introduction of hex cores allowed for more efficient manufacturing and more consistent string winding tension. Here are the key selling points for both:

Round Core Strings - are generally wound by hand to ensure quality and have 100% contact with the core wire making them more dense, providing maximum sustain and a more vintage sound of yesteryear.

The difference between round cores and hex cores is significant. In a guitar string, round cores feel more flexible and have a fatter, more balanced tonal character. Hex cores are a bit stiffer and are brighter. In bass strings, the hex cores are a bit stiffer and are deeper in sound than round cores. A round core bass string is brighter, while still remaining more flexible.

Hex Core Strings - are currently the industry standard because they can be precisely wound to ensure tight core tension. This gives the strings consistent performance and intonation according to the materials being used.

[MAP70]

+1
Curt Mangan Pure Nickle--I was skeptical but they really do make a difference.
I use these exclusively now (I'm afraid to try the Thomastik-Infeld).

I hear ya, I'm always looking for a deal on them,good thing they last.
Here's the best deal I see presently :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161112789290?ss ... 1436.l2649

They are 9's, I'm hoping stringsandbeyond will have a deal on 10's sometime soon .

Wow, $39 for three sets... a bit pricey... they better play for me... LOL

[Elwood]

hehe..and that's a deal...list they are 3 times that

[MAP70]

hehe..and that's a deal...list they are 3 times that

Wow.. I don't know what they do, but for 3x that I think I need to pass.. LOL

[Elwood]

Just the reason I didn't bring them up initially, the mangan pure nickels are good and not imported from Vienna.
(I've never paid list price for them BTW)

[MAP70]

Just the reason I didn't bring them up initially, the mangan pure nickels are good and not imported from Vienna.
(I've never paid list price for them BTW)

I might give the Mangan a try... I like the DR because they are easy for me to get locally, fairly inexpensive for a quality/handmade string, Made and manufactured in the USA..

I can get Pure Blues 100% Nickel for about $6 a set...

[fianoman]

I will look for the Mangan and the DR's locally. I think each guitar will have a "preference" for a type of string. If you think about it, every single component in a guitar effects tone - right? So in theory, even the strings will have an huge effect on your sound along with the body wood, bridge style and material, pick material, nut, etc. So maybe there is an overtone or harmonic that is accentuated with a particular string brand that enhances a particular guitar's shortcomings - adding more sparkle or bloom or midtones or sustain.... Like I said, the DM Blue Steels really woke up one of my guitars but on the other hand, I really didn't like the Dean Markley Helix strings on the same guitar and will not be buying them again. They just sounded flat after the Blues.

If money and time were no object, I would just buy one of every brand and try them on each guitar I own! Even the Thomastiks!

[bloodied_fingers]

I will look for the Mangan and the DR's locally. I think each guitar will have a "preference" for a type of string. If you think about it, every single component in a guitar effects tone - right? So in theory, even the strings will have an huge effect on your sound along with the body wood, bridge style and material, pick material, nut, etc. So maybe there is an overtone or harmonic that is accentuated with a particular string brand that enhances a particular guitar's shortcomings - adding more sparkle or bloom or midtones or sustain.... Like I said, the DM Blue Steels really woke up one of my guitars but on the other hand, I really didn't like the Dean Markley Helix strings on the same guitar and will not be buying them again. They just sounded flat after the Blues.

If money and time were no object, I would just buy one of every brand and try them on each guitar I own! Even the Thomastiks!

Well, I think there are seriously diminishing returns on the effect from "every single component" of an electric guitar. This industry could choke and elephant on its snake-oil.

But the uniqueness of strings is certainly not one of those myths. The effect of material, mass and construction on sustain and signal in the pickup is not only intuitive but it can/has been demonstrated empirically.

Some great ideas in this thread, here is my list of strings to try now:

DR Pure Blues
Dean Markley Blue Steels
curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)
Thomastik-Infeld

Did I miss any?

Thanks everybody for chiming in

Hey, while we're here discussing strings, how often do you all change 'em?

[suave eddie]

curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)

Curt Mangan offers a full line of strings--the Pure Nickle is just one of them.

Hey, while we're here discussing strings, how often do you all change 'em?

Another advantage I find with the Mangan pure nickles is that they seem to last me longer than any other string I've used. Even with hours of use daily I can leave them on for weeks. Of course YMMV.

[predator]

I will look for the Mangan and the DR's locally. I think each guitar will have a "preference" for a type of string. If you think about it, every single component in a guitar effects tone - right? So in theory, even the strings will have an huge effect on your sound along with the body wood, bridge style and material, pick material, nut, etc. So maybe there is an overtone or harmonic that is accentuated with a particular string brand that enhances a particular guitar's shortcomings - adding more sparkle or bloom or midtones or sustain.... Like I said, the DM Blue Steels really woke up one of my guitars but on the other hand, I really didn't like the Dean Markley Helix strings on the same guitar and will not be buying them again. They just sounded flat after the Blues.

If money and time were no object, I would just buy one of every brand and try them on each guitar I own! Even the Thomastiks!

Well, I think there are seriously diminishing returns on the effect from "every single component" of an electric guitar. This industry could choke and elephant on its snake-oil.

But the uniqueness of strings is certainly not one of those myths. The effect of material, mass and construction on sustain and signal in the pickup is not only intuitive but it can/has been demonstrated empirically.

Some great ideas in this thread, here is my list of strings to try now:

DR Pure Blues
Dean Markley Blue Steels
curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)
Thomastik-Infeld

Did I miss any?

Thanks everybody for chiming in

Hey, while we're here discussing strings, how often do you all change 'em?

I also use pure nickel strings and change them either after about 2 weeks (if I play several hours a day and jam 4-5 times with my friends in a band over that period), or after up to 2-3 months (if I play more sporadically). I should add that I am not a pro and that I don't have a very heavy technique that would wear strings down very quickly. I use bends quite a bit though and they speed up the string wear.

Here are some additional pure nickel string brands I would try on a Legacy. I play lighter gauges than you, bloodied_fingers (no pun intended), but I have a hunch that these same brands/types could work as well in heavier gauges. I tried each of those at some point on my Legacy over the last 4+ years, and I agree with fianoman that what works well with one guitar/setup might not work on another guitar/setup, even if the guitars have very similar specs. To find a perfect match, it's trial and error and setting up the guitar each time somewhat differently to give the strings their best chance to sing and play well:

- Pyramid Nickel Classics 10-46 and 10-48 (pros: excellent sound on my Legacy; cons: they cost more than others and require somewhat unique intonation and possibly saddle height adjustments, i.e. more time spent setting up if you are coming from another brand).

- GHS Burnished Nickel Rockers 9-42 and 10-46 (pros: in my experience, they seem to work with most guitars of this style, so they sound quite good on my Legacy, too; cons: somewhat short-lasting, i.e., the plain strings lose the smooth plating very quickly and are very rough-feeling afterwards)

- D'Addario Pure Nickel 9-41 and 10-45 (pros: for me, they offer great sound on some guitars, especially those with more modern pickups, long-lasting; if they are a match for your guitar sound-wise, then there are no cons, but - for some reason - they won't sound that good on every guitar, my Legacy included)

- Fender Original Bullets 10-46, current production (pros: slinky feel, bullet end for those who don't want string wraps lying on DFV saddles; cons: longer break-in time). The sound is pretty good on my Legacy, although not the very best I have achieved.

- GHS Nickel Rockers 10-46 (on some guitars they are excellent, on others they are dull. My Legacy is in the latter group).

[MAP70]

I will look for the Mangan and the DR's locally. I think each guitar will have a "preference" for a type of string. If you think about it, every single component in a guitar effects tone - right? So in theory, even the strings will have an huge effect on your sound along with the body wood, bridge style and material, pick material, nut, etc. So maybe there is an overtone or harmonic that is accentuated with a particular string brand that enhances a particular guitar's shortcomings - adding more sparkle or bloom or midtones or sustain.... Like I said, the DM Blue Steels really woke up one of my guitars but on the other hand, I really didn't like the Dean Markley Helix strings on the same guitar and will not be buying them again. They just sounded flat after the Blues.

If money and time were no object, I would just buy one of every brand and try them on each guitar I own! Even the Thomastiks!

Hehe if we ONLY had unlimited funds!

[MAP70]

- Pyramid Nickel Classics 10-46 and 10-48 (pros: excellent sound on my Legacy; cons: they cost more than others and require somewhat unique intonation and possibly saddle height adjustments, i.e. more time spent setting up if you are coming from another brand).

- GHS Burnished Nickel Rockers 9-42 and 10-46 (pros: in my experience, they seem to work with most guitars of this style, so they sound quite good on my Legacy, too; cons: somewhat short-lasting, i.e., the plain strings lose the smooth plating very quickly and are very rough-feeling afterwards)

- D'Addario Pure Nickel 9-41 and 10-45 (pros: for me, they offer great sound on some guitars, especially those with more modern pickups, long-lasting; if they are a match for your guitar sound-wise, then there are no cons, but - for some reason - they won't sound that good on every guitar, my Legacy included)

- Fender Original Bullets 10-46, current production (pros: slinky feel, bullet end for those who don't want string wraps lying on DFV saddles; cons: longer break-in time). The sound is pretty good on my Legacy, although not the very best I have achieved.

- GHS Nickel Rockers 10-46 (on some guitars they are excellent, on others they are dull. My Legacy is in the latter group).

Nice list!! I will have to try some of them..Any of these round core or are they hex core?

[predator]

- Pyramid Nickel Classics 10-46 and 10-48 (pros: excellent sound on my Legacy; cons: they cost more than others and require somewhat unique intonation and possibly saddle height adjustments, i.e. more time spent setting up if you are coming from another brand).

- GHS Burnished Nickel Rockers 9-42 and 10-46 (pros: in my experience, they seem to work with most guitars of this style, so they sound quite good on my Legacy, too; cons: somewhat short-lasting, i.e., the plain strings lose the smooth plating very quickly and are very rough-feeling afterwards)

- D'Addario Pure Nickel 9-41 and 10-45 (pros: for me, they offer great sound on some guitars, especially those with more modern pickups, long-lasting; if they are a match for your guitar sound-wise, then there are no cons, but - for some reason - they won't sound that good on every guitar, my Legacy included)

- Fender Original Bullets 10-46, current production (pros: slinky feel, bullet end for those who don't want string wraps lying on DFV saddles; cons: longer break-in time). The sound is pretty good on my Legacy, although not the very best I have achieved.

- GHS Nickel Rockers 10-46 (on some guitars they are excellent, on others they are dull. My Legacy is in the latter group).

Nice list!! I will have to try some of them..Any of these round core or are they hex core?

Yes, Pyramid Nickel Classics are round core. The rest on the list are hex core. If you opt for Pyramid Nickel Classics, I can tell you that the wound strings have lower tension, so their 10-48 pack (a.k.a. "Regular Special") will be similar in total tension to a typical 10-46 pack by other manufacturers. And with that set, you should be able to get excellent sound on the lower strings.

[bloodied_fingers]

i'm bookmarking this thread so I can peruse it the next time I go shopping for strings.

[bloodied_fingers]

i'm bookmarking this thread so I can peruse it the next time I go shopping for strings.

i thought that was so important i said it twice.

i thought that was so important i said it twice.

[Elwood]

curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)

here's a link if needed:
http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/cumafumapuni.html

[MAP70]

curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)

here's a link if needed:
http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/cumafumapuni.html

Not a bad price.... I'll have to look at those as well...

[bloodied_fingers]

curt mangan srtings
- pure nickel (are these different than their normal?)

here's a link if needed:
http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/cumafumapuni.html

those only go to eleven...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

[Elwood]

[MAP70]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

[Case24]

Yeah I can see how some people don't like 9's.. I have always used them since I started playing 25 years ago... I tried 10's and they are not bad at all, but I always gravitated back to 9's.. I always felt like better players played heavier strings, but once I heard that Billy Gibbons used 7's I felt much better about not going heavier... Although I do use heavier strings on my Acoustic...

Actually my new thing is pure nickel strings, I tried some Hendrix strings that are discontuinued and I wanted to see how some other manufacturers nickel strings were.... Right now I use DR Pure Blues.. I really like them.. They have a round core which is an old style way of making strings, nice sustain and they feel good under my fingers...... I was a D'Addario guy at the beginning and then I had used EB strings for years and years... but the DR stuff is real good... I would recommend giving them a shot if you never tried them, I wish I had tried them sooner..

It's always fun to try new stuff... sometimes it gives you ideas and/or a new way of looking at stuff...

Mark

I took your advice Mark and put some DR Pure Blues 10's on my ASAT. Your recommendation is spot on...very nice feel to these strings and greater sustain. Lots of bottom end to them as well. Thanks for the post.

[MAP70]

I took your advice Mark and put some DR Pure Blues 10's on my ASAT. Your recommendation is spot on...very nice feel to these strings and greater sustain. Lots of bottom end to them as well. Thanks for the post.

Hey Case, Glad you liked them..they are my favorite right now..I am using them on all guitars and at $7 or so a set they are a great deal for a hand made string.. I think they are one of the few round core strings out there...

The pure Nickel sound is really great!

Mark